Apex73
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Posts posted by Apex73
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4 hours ago, What? said:
I'm not "reaching," it's right there in the article. Try fucking reading it :
T.J. Finley, who graduated from UT with a bachelor's degree in kinesiology in the spring, stopped singing UT's iconic alma mater completely after being told that the song was first performed by students wearing blackface makeup in a turn-of-the-century minstrel show.
"At first, I was just so shocked that something like this could still exist," said Finley, a graduate student at the Duke University School of Law.
They interviewed multiple people, some who were uncomfortable, some who weren't. The issue is that you claim that this is only now an issue, when clearly it predates the current situation and invalidates your claim on this point.
You stopped the quote at the point where it supports your point of view. If anyone actually reads the article all the stuff I said is valid. You are just cherrypicking the parts you want to express.
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Edited by Apex73
4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:This is not true. Players from the team have said it has bothered them in the past. There have been multiple news reports referenced in this thread showing how it was pointed out in the past but no one gave a shit. Again, you just refuse to acknowledge these facts because it does not fit your narrative.
The rest of your post is more ignoring their point of view because it’s not your point of view, therefore it won’t achieve shit TO YOU. And since you have an opinion, you believe it should be given the same weight at the players opinion.
Yea my opinion is worth just as much as any human beings. I support these guys and pay a lot of money to university year in and year out so I think my opinion holds a little weight. Im not ignoring what they are saying I just disagree with the notion that it will have any lasting change. Did it bring anybody closer together? Does it draw a light on police brutality? No it just strokes the ego in the fact that I got someone to comply with what I wanted. Im allowed to have an opinion opposing what the kids want and can still support them. You have no room for nuance in your point of thinking. Everything isn't so "Black and White" so to speak. You are just a victim to the narrative. We keep electing the same people hoping for change then get mad when it doesn't. I didn't put into policy that minorities should be treated unequal. But you don't care. You will just champion for anything that your narrative supports because it doesn't require you to think. God forbid someone expressing their mind and give a different opinion.
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1 minute ago, What? said:
Do you mean to say that YOU only just recently found out that this has been an issue for minority students at UT? Here's an article from 2009 which has already been posted, but you continue to ignore: https://abcnews.go.com/OnCampus/story?id=7160813&page=1. There are plenty of other examples from current and former players.
In that same it article the person they interviewed said they were shocked by the history of the songs origins but did not feel discriminated against and felt it did not impact anyone negatively in any way. You are reaching. Mining for morality points. You make me sick.
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7 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:
Oh for crying out loud, of course I do not know your mind, or others. I have not claimed to, and explicitly said that I don't. It's like this concept is foreign to you.
You are the one who has, however, by saying this will not make them feel better. Why do you think that? In the post below this you say this is trivial. How can you say what is trivial to someone else, particularly when they have specifically said that this is not trivial but has caused and continues to cause hurt? That is the arrogance that just blows my mind.
And I do agree with you that you do not necessarily have to agree on actions or next step but dismissal comes from a weird place to me.
You hear what you want to hear and take what I say out of context. Iv'e explained why I think it won't make a difference long term. You clearly disagree. That doesn't mean Im dismissing them or I don't care what they think. Do you have any idea how to use nuance? It's just my opinion. If you think it's a stupid opinion then that's fine. I really don't care. But that doesn't mean Im dismissive of the players concerns.
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14 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:
Lulz. This is why people don’t respect your position. You say it won’t do anything or make anyone feel better, but what you really mean is it just doesn’t matter to you.
You really can’t figure out how black students would feel better, more welcome, and actually equal as human beings if buildings, statues, monuments, etc. on their campus were no longer named or established to honor people who were openly in support of and did own black people and considered them less than human?
These in particular, didn't seem to bother them until recently. In the long run ask yourself what is this really going to achieve? I think that's a perfectly reasonable question to ask about this. I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticize it for being trivial. But if they want to tear them down because it will momentarily make them feel better than so be it. I predict it will not have a long lasting effect and something else will be demanded in the near future.
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19 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:
Clipping to address what I think is a real issue. I will ask you the same thing that I asked @HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats (and which they refuse to answer for some reason). Why are you convinced that you know what the result of these actions will be. You have a group of students and athletes looking for a change (presumably something that will make them feel better) and you are saying they are wrong. How can you know their minds and expectations better than they do?
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think disagreement about the next step indicates racism. But I do think that assuming you know how a group feels without even talking to them comes pretty darn close. Not in the "n-word" or denying an apartment level, but definitely in the "I know more that that group does" level. It is not white guilt or "wokeness" to say "I hear what you are saying. You have a voice", especially when that voice has not previously been heard.
I would say you can say "I can hear what you're saying" and still not agree with the demands completely. In a sense you're right. I have no idea what their minds are like. Im sure it even differs amongst them. In the same way, you don't know what my mind or the other posters you mentioned are like 100 percent. I already said earlier I think they will walk away from this thinking they did a good job while not really accomplishing much in the bigger picture. It sets up a weird precedent where every time something happens that's bad you run in with a list of demands on the University to make change even though the University didn't have anything to do with the crime. And if you disagree with the demands then you apparently don't care about the players which is absurd.
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15 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:
Black lives matter was created for the expressed purpose and goal of bringing attention to police brutality (not just police murders) and injustice within the criminal justice system. You, along with most white people, don’t know shit about what goes on within the confines of the black community. You don’t know what’s discussed in black churches, black civic groups, black fraternal organizations, black barbershops, or just among black friends. News of stop the violence campaigns rarely get reported or discussed in mainstream media. I can guarantee you if you went to Facebook and searched you’d get more hits for stop the violence campaigns than black lives matter. Your ignorance of this fact doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The idea you can't have an opinion that differs from yours on black lives matter automatically means you are ignorant, insensitive, and don't care about black lives is nonsense.
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Edited by Apex73
I feel like a lot of this discussion has been blown out of proportion so to clear up any misconceptions.....
1. I definitely support the kids rights to say whatever they want and talk about the issues with whoever they want and I can understand the frustration with a shitty system that has failed to address the issues with it's lower and working class citizens. However I don't agree that the more outraged or hurt you are correlates to being as justified.
2. We definitely have a real chance to improve our interactions with police if we have an effective discussion about reform. I definitely support everything the guys have said on that front for the most part. There needs to be a change their but it needs a more careful approach than just defunding the police.
3. I really don't care if the players and students want to take down the statues or rename the buildings. It's just not really going to accomplish anything and I don't really think its gonna make anyone feel better but whatever. I think changing the song is asking for a lot. That's where it becomes a witch hunt in my opinion.
4. The idea that if you don''t agree with some of the aspects that are going on makes you a bad person is not the way to handle this. We have a lot of people on this site that are pandering because of a ridiculous sense of white guilt. The implication is that if you don't agree with what the kids want right now then you don't care about them or black lives. This is an absurd notion. So if I don't agree with what they want then I must think the way things are currently are perfect and no need for change. That's also an absurd contention. But this performative "woke" virtue signaling from white people who are taking on sins that were not theirs so as to take the sins of a broader group of people who are not them. Meaning when you a performative woke liberal and they say "Im taking on the sins of my ancestors" really means "Im not taking on the sins of my ancestors all the other white people who don't agree with me are taking on the sins of the ancestors." That's what's troubling.
5. I support these kids in all their future endeavors in football and in life. I hope their experience and the University of Texas is one they look back on with pride and satisfaction. I know I certainly do. Hook Em.
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3 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:
One could argue the preferred method of controlling black people was welfare, and abortions. We can can sit here and spout a lot of things that push the polarized narrative but I am pretty sure it comes down to your bank account. I think if you really want to get down to it, take the race variable out of police stats and look at classism/wealth status as the main variable.
The truth.
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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:
It also never happened. In 1961 the original law was changed to permit states to extend benefits to families with an unemployed father. Only twenty-five states eventually adopted the change to allow families to receive aid. The reason the law was change was precisely because legislators were concerned that the program's rules discouraged marriage.
LBJ didn't put that policy into place until 1964. He wasn't even president in 1961. It absolutely did happen and continues to be one of the biggest problems facing the community today.
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2 minutes ago, Longhorn Fever said:
Wll, dude, just realize that the old well-spoken phrase is race baiting. Perhaps open your eyes to the institutional racism that maybe pervades your conversations with "rational" humans. I am doubting that you can truly see others that disagree with you as rational.
I disagree. Because you can make a distinction between those who are well spoken and intelligent and those who aren't doesn't mean you are race baiting. That applies to all races obviously. You look at things so narrowly.
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23 minutes ago, Snacks said:
do you disagree that realities of today were intentionally created and perpetuated over several generations?
or do you disagree that the system worked this well?
racism is the root cause of the issues you brought up.
but i can read between your lines. you hadn't truly been educated on how we got to where we are right now.
i wish I wasn't on a phone... I'd lay out American history and walk you through slavery, laws, harassment, death, slaughter, theft, etc...
then you'd deny the significance history on today... I've been in this conversation before... it ends with you asking me how i was able to break out of the cycle, blah blah blah anecdotal praise for me and a few of your “well spoken" associates.
All the 'real' issues you mention are correct.. absolutely. but you cannot, in my presence, attempt to disassociate the historical basis that intentionally created and perpetuated the issues.
"pull yourself up by your bootstraps..."
"but you may not obtain boots... or family... or knowledge... or financial means... or property... ... "
"but that (legally) ended 40 years ago... you're free now."
i don't even know why I'm engaging in the conversation on surlyshaggyhornfans... again...I definitely see what you are saying in that its unreasonable to ask someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they are starting so far behind the race that they should just catch up. That's not what I'm advocating for. But to deny that those are the most important real issues facing the community is lunacy in my opinion. If you are talking about the historical circumstances in when LBJ inserted legislation for the war on poverty incentivizing black women to not have a father in the home to receive government money then yea that was fucked up. It incentivizes mothers to have kids out of wedlock and incentivizes fathers to abandon their responsibility. That creates a huge problem and was absolutely put there by a white government. You could say that's racist. I'd say its been the biggest crippler, that and the war on drugs, to the black community since the 60s. But the idea that America is just as racist now as it was then and is still horribly pressed with systemic racism is pure nonsense.
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8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:
So, you really don't have any real evidence to back up the claim I negged. Let's have some fun, shall we?
You don't have anything like a statement from BLM just an angry chant from part of a crowd. Strike one!
I googled "FBI classifies Black Lives Matter as terrorist." From the raving liberal rag Foreign Policy (2017):
As white supremacists prepared to descend on Charlottesville, Virginia, in August, the FBI warned about a new movement that was violent, growing, and racially motivated. Only it wasn’t white supremacists; it was “black identity extremists.”
Amid a rancorous debate over whether the Trump administration has downplayed the threat posed by white supremacist groups, the FBI’s counterterrorism division has declared that black identity extremists pose a growing threat of premeditated violence against law enforcement.
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The report, dated Aug. 3 — just nine days before the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville turned deadly — appears to be the first known reference to “black identity extremists” as a movement. But former government officials and legal experts said no such movement exists, and some expressed concern that the term is part of a politically motivated effort to find an equivalent threat to white supremacists.
A former senior counterterrorism and intelligence official from the Department of Homeland Security who reviewed the document at FP’s request expressed shock at the language.
“This is a new umbrella designation that has no basis,” the former official said. “There are civil rights and privacy issues all over this.”
First, the FBI doesn't name BLM. Second, we have experts saying such a movement (BIE) doesn't even exist. Third, experts say that the designation was likely made to "to find an equivalent threat to white supremacists." Swing and miss. Strike two!
Here is the Black Lives Matter comment on the sniper followed by a typical tweet from a BLM follower. From here.
Further, here's a snip from USA Today. See how accusing BLM of responsibility for violence was used as a way to discredit them. It worked then. Similar attempts now are not working so well.
Leaders of the movement were quick to condemn the slaying of the officers who were killed during a Black Lives Matter protest of this week's fatal police shootings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La., and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minn., two black men whose disturbing encounters with police, filmed by witnesses, had stoked anger throughout the country.
BLM backers said efforts to assign blame for the gunman's actions to an entire movement were dangerous and irresponsible.
“What we did last night was a peaceful protest,” said Dominique Alexander, who heads the Next Generation Action Network and helped organize the Dallas protest, told USA TODAY. “What we were doing as activists was pushing our government to do what was right to address the issues (surrounding police brutality), so more innocent lives are not taken in America.”
Strike three!
So please explain:
- Your insistence that you are better informed than those you argue against.
- Your in-depth conversations with persons of color.
- The curious pattern your posts have in common with the voices of ignorance and/or white supremacy.
Grow a conscience. Abandon the lies.
Well I guess you just have me all figured out huh? Lol. Sounds like you cherrypicked the data to support your narrative. I guess It just clears it up because they said we don't advocate violence after 5 cops were killed. We should just believe that. And just because the sniper said he had no affiliation with the BLM group doesn't mean he didn't. And just because black lives matter makes a statement saying they don't support that doesn't mean they don't. I guess you would believe David Duke if he said he fully supported black rights. Not saying he did but I'm not saying he didn't either. I have the videos of the blm protest chants that incite violence but I can't figure out how to link them to here. They are out there though. AlI you have to do is type in black lives matter chants. I agree that I was wrong when I said the FBI classified them as a domestic terrorist group. Saw that on a video without properly fact checking it. I will give you one example of and in depth conversation Ive had with friend of mine who is black. He shares the same points of view as me. The only point of contention is he believes if there is an argument for systemic racism it would be how the schooling system works which I don't 100 percent disagree with that either. I'm not like trying to draw a line in the sand and say none of these concerns are valid. I'm saying theres a middle ground between the extremes and those are the people who seem to properly communicate. The idea that you can equate anything Ive said to white supremacy is laughable at best. Get off your moral high ground and please fall on your own sword of self righteousness.
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1 minute ago, stork642 said:
I think people are absolutely listening like maybe never before. I don’t have a dispute with the list except for the Eyes because I question how getting rid of it truly affects meaningful change for better. Change for change sake is not change for the better. My other question would be if everything on the list is agreed on and done how does that help eradicate police brutality against African Americans? Isn’t that what we are taking about? When this unfortunately happens again, and it will, what will the next list of demands be and will those have a true positive affect on ridding our nation of racism and police brutality? If I thought theses things would really help rid us of these terrible atrocities I would say absolutely let’s do it but these seem very symbolic and without true measures we will be in the same place when this happens again. But I understand it’s much easier to change the name of a building or change a song than to come up with real solutions. But the former makes everyone feel like something is getting done but is it helping to actually solve the problem?
Because they only see the low hanging fruit to go after. The bigger problems often get ignored and it turns into a ridiculous race debate to deflect the actual problem that politicians and corporations have been screwing around the American working class for a long time and they want to keep it that way. The best way to do that is to try to racially divide your working class with a narrative that people can pick a side on. Because they know the real power would be a united working class they would be forced to negotiate with. Deflects the shit off you so you can continue to operate your corrupt political game.
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8 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:
Huh? Are you kidding me? Irish descendentes LOVE to put out that they are Irish (they usually drop American altogether).Not in my experience if they are generations removed but Im willing to take your word for it if you have had a different experience. Still that's one country out of a ton so its kind of a moot point.
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7 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:
Why do Irish descendants identify as “Irish-American”. Or even just Irish?They don't usually when you first meet them. If you ask questions about their ancestry then they might. Most people who are born in America and are generations removed from where there ancestors are from generally don't say they are German American, Irish American, etc
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24 minutes ago, Snacks said:
You are correct. That is the biggest problem. You are suggesting we only solve the biggest problems and not the mentalities and the memorabilia that helped create that problem.
Black families were broken apart upon capture... Slaves were bred. Families (the initial community of anyone's life) were illegal. Slaves couldn't have families. For hundreds of years, family was limited to very few black people. However, killing of slaves and blacks has been legal, more or less, since before this country has been a country to today.
So, as you see, and I'm sure you already know, the value system that has failed the black Americans was intentionally created by white Americans.
We, the black coalition, would like to erase some of the heritage, teachings, and honoring of people who created the system that intended to leave us fatherless, uneducated, ignorant, and dead.
Are you being the devil's advocate or the devil? Put your stake in the ground or your head back in the ground.
I haven't read one example of any thoughts or ideas from you. All I've read is you denying the issues have existed for long or denying that the current system is actually a problem.
this isn't new. you're (acting) new.
Then you haven't really read what I said or interpreted it incorrectly. I never said the system doesn't have problems in fact I said we needed to address those but the idea that systemic racism is the biggest problem facing the community I disagree with. Btw you don't speak for all black people. There are plenty of intelligent well spoken black people that agree with me too. What mentalities still exist that is holding you back by in large? And I don't mean the few racist individuals you can bring up. I'm talking about actual legislation or laws that are racist with intent. Show me that and I will agree.
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36 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:
Negged for intentional distortion of truth. BLM has led a brilliant, non-violent, inclusive national demonstration to address the issue of government violence against black people. You must produce evidence of BLM calling for the "killing of police." That doesn't mean a Breitbart story about one guy in the street. Show me that BLM calls for "killing police."
I don't neg often. I always say why. It's overwhelmingly done in response to lies and disingenuous sophistry which is the same thing as a lie.
You're embracing a lie about BLM which the government is using to justify using force against the peaceful demonstrators. It's on video. Take a look. Your reach for this lie removes whatever atoms of credibility you had.
Peddle the hate and stupidity elsewhere. The US is already full up.
Go look at the videos from the protests a few years ago. They have protesters screaming pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon. And What do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want them? Now! For Christ sake the FBI classified them as a domestic terrorist group a few years ago. I was at the protest demonstration in Dallas when the sniper guy (who is unrelated to the movement) started unloading on cops and at that movement they were screaming similar things. At the very least they incite violence.
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43 minutes ago, Snacks said:
incorrect.
Prather and Painter names were protested when i was in school 30 years ago... when the Fijis had a Sambo t-shirt for some party, and we all marched to their house and whined about them and the university supporting klansmen and slaveholders by naming buildings after them.
i guess a bunch of people are hoping the American negro slave descendants (it appears some want to keep the historical naming conventions instead of "African Americans") put their heads back in the sand for another 30 years.
nothing gets America charged up more than discussing ways to try to to end racism (aside from donating money, because they know it keeps people in check, ie quiet.)That's one hell of a leap to say people insist that people still want to call them negro. I just said I don't understand why we are calling them African American when they are for the most part born American and have never been to Africa. I mean black people is fine and not offensive.
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56 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:
This position is so morally bankrupt. For one moment, try to imagine not being white. I truly feel sorry for you.
Yea well according to you, anything is morally bankrupt that go's against your opinion on issues like these. Btw who the hell are you to play morality police? Are you trying to say I should pity them so much that I shouldn't share my concerns about this and just go along with whatever they want to do? You are the one who is dehumanizing them saying we should pity them so much that they can't take opposing view. With all due respect, I think/hope our players aren't as pathetic as you. You have way too much white guilt. Get off your moral high ground and actually have a real opinion for once.

Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it
in Football
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Edited by Apex73
Kaepernick was going to lose his spot anyway. It's already been said by multiple sources inside the 49ers. Him doing what he did was just the nail in the coffin. Not saying that was justified but thats the way it works in business when you are trying to protect your brand. You're right. We should listen to the players opinions and what they have to say and Ive done that. I still disagree with them but I support them. Im not against our players and want them to succeed in football and in life but the idea that I don't agree with them and I think they are kind of being led astray by what the media and their emotions are telling them makes me a bad person is absurd. I have just as much of a right to my opinion as they do and you guys are acting like I don't. Get over your bullshit and start having a meaningful conversation. Because by coming after me like you guys are doing, is only further solidifying my point.