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Apex73

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Posts posted by Apex73

  1. 2 minutes ago, Longhorn Fever said:

    Wll, dude, just realize that the old well-spoken phrase is race baiting. Perhaps open your eyes to the institutional racism that maybe pervades your conversations with "rational" humans. I am doubting that you can truly see others that disagree with you as rational.

     

    I disagree.  Because you can make a distinction between those who are well spoken and intelligent and those who aren't doesn't mean you are race baiting.  That applies to all races obviously.  You look at things so narrowly.

     

  2. 23 minutes ago, Snacks said:


     

     


    do you disagree that realities of today were intentionally created and perpetuated over several generations?

    or do you disagree that the system worked this well?

    racism is the root cause of the issues you brought up.

    but i can read between your lines. you hadn't truly been educated on how we got to where we are right now.


    i wish I wasn't on a phone... I'd lay out American history and walk you through slavery, laws, harassment, death, slaughter, theft, etc...

    then you'd deny the significance history on today... I've been in this conversation before... it ends with you asking me how i was able to break out of the cycle, blah blah blah anecdotal praise for me and a few of your “well spoken" associates.

    All the 'real' issues you mention are correct.. absolutely. but you cannot, in my presence, attempt to disassociate the historical basis that intentionally created and perpetuated the issues.

    "pull yourself up by your bootstraps..."

    "but you may not obtain boots... or family... or knowledge... or financial means... or property... ... "

    "but that (legally) ended 40 years ago... you're free now."



    i don't even know why I'm engaging in the conversation on surlyshaggyhornfans... again...

     

    I definitely see what you are saying in that its unreasonable to ask someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they are starting so far behind the race that they should just catch up.  That's not what I'm advocating for. But to deny that those are the most important real issues facing the community is lunacy in my opinion.  If you are talking about the historical circumstances in when LBJ inserted legislation for the war on poverty incentivizing black women to not have a father in the home to receive government money then yea that was fucked up.  It incentivizes mothers to have kids out of wedlock and incentivizes fathers to abandon their responsibility.  That creates a huge problem and was absolutely put there by a white government.  You could say that's racist.  I'd say its been the biggest crippler, that and the war on drugs, to the black community since the 60s.  But the idea that America is just as racist now as it was then and is still horribly pressed with systemic racism is pure nonsense.  

  3. 8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

    So, you really don't have any real evidence to back up the claim I negged. Let's have some fun, shall we?

    You don't have anything like a statement from BLM just an angry chant from part of a crowd. Strike one!

    I googled "FBI classifies Black Lives Matter as terrorist." From the raving liberal rag Foreign Policy (2017):

    As white supremacists prepared to descend on Charlottesville, Virginia, in August, the FBI warned about a new movement that was violent, growing, and racially motivated. Only it wasn’t white supremacists; it was “black identity extremists.”

    Amid a rancorous debate over whether the Trump administration has downplayed the threat posed by white supremacist groups, the FBI’s counterterrorism division has declared that black identity extremists pose a growing threat of premeditated violence against law enforcement.

    ...

    The report, dated Aug. 3 — just nine days before the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville turned deadly — appears to be the first known reference to “black identity extremists” as a movement. But former government officials and legal experts said no such movement exists, and some expressed concern that the term is part of a politically motivated effort to find an equivalent threat to white supremacists.

    A former senior counterterrorism and intelligence official from the Department of Homeland Security who reviewed the document at FP’s request expressed shock at the language.

    “This is a new umbrella designation that has no basis,” the former official said. “There are civil rights and privacy issues all over this.”

    First, the FBI doesn't name BLM. Second, we have experts saying such a movement (BIE) doesn't even exist. Third, experts say that the designation was likely made to "to find an equivalent threat to white supremacists." Swing and miss. Strike two!

    Here is the Black Lives Matter comment on the sniper followed by a typical tweet from a BLM follower. From here.

    image.png.da7806ca410c2f3db4aab43b911e8e86.pngimage.png.da7806ca410c2f3db4aab43b911e8e86.png

    Further, here's a snip from USA Today. See how accusing BLM of responsibility for violence was used as a way to discredit them. It worked then. Similar attempts now are not working so well. 

    Leaders of the movement were quick to condemn the slaying of the officers who were killed during a Black Lives Matter protest of this week's fatal police shootings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La., and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minn., two black men whose disturbing encounters with police, filmed by witnesses, had stoked anger throughout the country.

    BLM backers said efforts to assign blame for the gunman's actions to an entire movement were dangerous and irresponsible.

    “What we did last night was a peaceful protest,” said Dominique Alexander, who heads the Next Generation Action Network and helped organize the Dallas protest, told USA TODAY. “What we were doing as activists was pushing our government to do what was right to address the issues (surrounding police brutality), so more innocent lives are not taken in America.”

    Strike three!

    So please explain:

    • Your insistence that you are better informed than those you argue against.
    • Your in-depth conversations with persons of color.
    • The curious pattern your posts have in common with the voices of ignorance and/or white supremacy.

    Grow a conscience. Abandon the lies.

    Well I guess you just have me all figured out huh?  Lol.  Sounds like you cherrypicked the data to support your narrative.  I guess It just clears it up because they said we don't advocate violence after 5 cops were killed.  We should just believe that.  And just because the sniper said he had no affiliation with the BLM group doesn't mean he didn't.  And just because black lives matter makes a statement saying they don't support that doesn't mean they don't.  I guess you would believe David Duke if he said he fully supported black rights.  Not saying he did but I'm not saying he didn't either.  I have the videos of the blm protest chants that incite violence but I can't figure out how to link them to here.  They are out there though.  AlI you have to do is type in black lives matter chants.  I agree that I was wrong when I said the FBI classified them as a domestic terrorist group. Saw that on a video without properly fact checking it.  I will give you one example of and in depth conversation Ive had with friend of mine who is black.  He shares the same points of view as me.  The only point of contention is he believes if there is an argument for systemic racism it would be how the schooling system works which I don't 100 percent disagree with that either. I'm not like trying to draw a line in the sand and say none of these concerns are valid. I'm saying theres a middle ground between the extremes and those are the people who seem to properly communicate.  The idea that you can equate anything Ive said to white supremacy is laughable at best.  Get off your moral high ground and please fall on your own sword of self righteousness.

     

     

  4. 1 minute ago, stork642 said:

    I think people are absolutely listening like maybe never before.  I don’t have a dispute with the list except for the Eyes because I question how getting rid of it truly affects meaningful change for better.  Change for change sake is not change for the better.  My other question would be if everything on the list is agreed on and done how does that help eradicate police brutality against African Americans?  Isn’t that what we are taking about?  When this unfortunately happens again, and it will, what will the next list of demands be and will those have a true positive affect on ridding our nation of racism and police brutality?  If I thought theses things would really help rid us of these terrible atrocities I would say absolutely let’s do it but these seem very symbolic and without true measures we will be in the same place when this happens again.  But I understand it’s much easier to change the name of a building or change a song than to come up with real solutions.  But the former makes everyone feel like something is getting done but is it helping to actually solve the problem?

    Because they only see the low hanging fruit to go after.  The bigger problems often get ignored and it turns into a ridiculous race debate to deflect the actual problem that politicians and corporations have been screwing around the American working class for a long time and they want to keep it that way.  The best way to do that is to try to racially divide your working class with a narrative that people can pick a side on.  Because they know the real power would be a united working class they would be forced to negotiate with.  Deflects the shit off you so you can continue to operate your corrupt political game.

  5. 8 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:


    Huh? Are you kidding me? Irish descendentes LOVE to put out that they are Irish (they usually drop American altogether).

    Not in my experience if they are generations removed but Im willing to take your word for it if you have had a different experience.  Still that's one country out of a ton so its kind of a moot point.

  6. 7 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:


    Why do Irish descendants identify as “Irish-American”. Or even just Irish?

    They don't usually when you first meet them.  If you ask questions about their ancestry then they might.  Most people who are born in America and are generations removed from where there ancestors are from generally don't say they are German American, Irish American, etc

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  7. 24 minutes ago, Snacks said:

     

     

     

     

     

    You are correct. That is the biggest problem. You are suggesting we only solve the biggest problems and not the mentalities and the memorabilia that helped create that problem.

     

    Black families were broken apart upon capture... Slaves were bred. Families (the initial community of anyone's life) were illegal. Slaves couldn't have families. For hundreds of years, family was limited to very few black people. However, killing of slaves and blacks has been legal, more or less, since before this country has been a country to today.

     

    So, as you see, and I'm sure you already know, the value system that has failed the black Americans was intentionally created by white Americans.

     

    We, the black coalition, would like to erase some of the heritage, teachings, and honoring of people who created the system that intended to leave us fatherless, uneducated, ignorant, and dead.

     

    Are you being the devil's advocate or the devil? Put your stake in the ground or your head back in the ground.

     

    I haven't read one example of any thoughts or ideas from you. All I've read is you denying the issues have existed for long or denying that the current system is actually a problem.

     

    this isn't new. you're (acting) new.

     

    Then you haven't really read what I said or interpreted it incorrectly.  I never said the system doesn't have problems in fact I said we needed to address those but the idea that systemic racism is the biggest problem facing the community I disagree with.  Btw you don't speak for all black people.  There are plenty of intelligent well spoken black people that agree with me too.  What mentalities still exist that is holding you back by in large?  And I don't mean the few racist individuals you can bring up.  I'm talking about actual legislation or laws that are racist with intent.  Show me that and I will agree.  

  8. 36 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

    Negged for intentional distortion of truth. BLM has led a brilliant, non-violent, inclusive national demonstration to address the issue of government violence against black people. You must produce evidence of BLM calling for the "killing of police." That doesn't mean a Breitbart story about one guy in the street. Show me that BLM calls for "killing police." 

    I don't neg often. I always say why. It's overwhelmingly done in response to lies and disingenuous sophistry which is the same thing as a lie.

    You're embracing a lie about BLM which the government is using to justify using force against the peaceful demonstrators. It's on video. Take a look. Your reach for this lie removes whatever atoms of credibility you had.

    Peddle the hate and stupidity elsewhere. The US is already full up.

    Go look at the videos from the protests a few years ago.  They have protesters screaming pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon.  And What do we want? Dead Cops!  When do we want them?  Now!  For Christ sake the FBI classified them as a domestic terrorist group a few years ago.  I was at the protest demonstration in Dallas when the sniper guy (who is unrelated to the movement) started unloading on cops and at that movement they were screaming similar things.  At the very least they incite violence.

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  9. 43 minutes ago, Snacks said:


     

     


    incorrect.

    Prather and Painter names were protested when i was in school 30 years ago... when the Fijis had a Sambo t-shirt for some party, and we all marched to their house and whined about them and the university supporting klansmen and slaveholders by naming buildings after them.

    i guess a bunch of people are hoping the American negro slave descendants (it appears some want to keep the historical naming conventions instead of "African Americans") put their heads back in the sand for another 30 years.

    nothing gets America charged up more than discussing ways to try to to end racism (aside from donating money, because they know it keeps people in check, ie quiet.)

     

    That's one hell of a leap to say people insist that people still want to call them negro.  I just said I don't understand why we are calling them African American when they are for the most part born American and have never been to Africa.  I mean black people is fine and not offensive.  

  10. 56 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

    This position is so morally bankrupt. For one moment, try to imagine not being white. I truly feel sorry for you. 

    Yea well according to you, anything is morally bankrupt that go's against your opinion on issues like these.  Btw who the hell are you to play morality police?  Are you trying to say I should pity them so much that I shouldn't share my concerns about this and just go along with whatever they want to do? You are the one who is dehumanizing them saying we should pity them so much that they can't take opposing view.  With all due respect, I think/hope our players aren't as pathetic as you.  You have way too much white guilt.  Get off your moral high ground and actually have a real opinion for once.

  11. 8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

    Sounds like you want to impose your will on others.

    That's kind of ironic considering all of the issues discussed in this thread.

    What?  I fail to see how that makes any since.  Im asking for a nuanced discussion.  It's you who has the mentality of agree with this or you are the one with the problem.  Enough with you.  You are annoying.

  12. 1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

    Exactly how is Black Lives Matter radical and extreme? They are only a product of how this country treated them since they were brought over here as slaves. Unless you hate them speaking up?

    I mean a group that has openly called for the killing of cops is pretty radical and extreme to me.  Idk how you stand on that but doesn't sound like a solid group of rational people.  I believe it started with good intentions but got hijacked by extremists like movements often do.  Happens all the time throughout history.

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  13. 1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

    No one is saying people who grew up singing the Eyes are racist. No one really understood the impact of its history. No one took the time to really listen to the people who said it was racist. That doesn’t make fans bad people. It was okay to love the song. It was okay to sing the song. But now the black community including the entire team is saying hey, if you didn’t know, this song is disrespectful. It hurts us. We don’t want to sing it anymore. And we don’t want you singing it either. Now I know that seems hurtful to say something you love is bad. But they come from a good place. They come from love. They want everyone to come together. A song does not make Texas. A building does not make Texas. People make Texas. 

    If the song really hurts them then I am very concerned about the mental toughness of our current players.

    • Like 5
  14. 2 hours ago, NWAustinDude said:

    Nobody cares if you want to masturbate around with it. Pick a side. White nationalism or Black Lives Matter.

    This is by far the dumbest thing Ive heard on this thread.  Pick a side?  How about you consider what YOU think about the issue instead of what your'e being told by both groups.  They both are radical and extreme.  No room for nuance.  No room for thinking. Just Lynch mob justice right?  What a fucking idiot.

    • Like 7
  15. 3 minutes ago, GottaB said:

    I haven’t read the thread. Someone may have already mentioned it. My concern is the racist douchebags will insist on singing it “to keep up the tradition” and piss off minorities and create a toxic environment.

    Im sorry but because someone insists on singing the song and not being silenced doesn't mean they have racist intent.  It only takes 3 seconds of thinking to come up with a conclusion like that.

  16. 8 minutes ago, ShowMeALoss said:

    It's a lot more than statistics and statistics will often lie if you don't take into consideration various other things. Blacks and minorities are more afraid of Police and are likely to do something stupid to avoid being arrested or abused. If a white person is being shot by a police officer, it's more likely that he was a criminal and was trying to avoid being arrested or attacked the officer. So I would argue that the circumstances that lead to these shootings are unlikely to be similar.

    Police brutality is a problem all around the world. Majority of the people don't experience it but for those unfortunate who experience it on a regular basis, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. We, as a society, have given too much power to lowly trained officers, some of whom just relish too much in the power they have over their fellow citizens. Without checks, all powerful people misuse it.

    I actually agree with most of that.

  17. 13 minutes ago, Sejjr said:

    I suppose we will soon be eliminating and scrubbing from our history the "Star Spangled Banner." Francis Scott-Key was a slave owner and a devout racist. He also wrote this song before slavery was abolished. That song has FAR more racist underpinnings than "The Eyes of Texas." The problem is, there is no end to this type of racist apology tour when it comes to the history of the world. You could likely find something racist or horrible in nearly every product, brand, building, town name, etc., if you look deep enough. Hugo Boss was a fucking Nazi that designed the SS Uniform, yet that label is very popular today. Bayer aspirin is one of the best selling drugs in the world, yet, that company also manufactured Zyklon B and encouraged Josef Mengele to test their drugs at Auschwitz. How many Chinese workers have died working to manufacture Apple products? Or Nike and their history of using a child labor force? What are the limits to social acceptance of shitty historical track records? And who is the arbitrator of which historical outrage gets selected for deletion? John Cleese made an funny point the other day: "The Romans enslaved the British for 400 years. Should we be demanding reparations from the Italians?"

    I understand that we can and should always strive to do better, especially in light of what we know today versus our past; a past full of racism or human rights abuses. But I also wonder where this culling ends?

    It doesn't.  And a lot of people don't even really care about these issues, they are just mining for morality points.  

  18. 1 minute ago, bullet said:

    That's what a Black Harvard professor said.  But nobody in MSM quotes him.  He did the study after Ferguson and was surprised to find that Blacks were no more likely to be shot  by police in the US as a whole.  Actually found that in Houston, whites were 20% more likely to be shot.  He did find that Blacks were more likely to be mistreated.  But not shot.

    Careful.  Facts make some people uncomfortable here.

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