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d2o

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Posts posted by d2o

  1. 6 minutes ago, Machinator said:

    The Bucks are an interesting case. It's hard to make sense of their roster; minus a center, they have a fair number of legit pieces, but they don't seem to fit together like they do on the court without Giannis dragging them to relevance. No doubt some of it is the leadership. They need to nail their next head coach hire or Giannis will be heading elsewhere when his current contract is up. They also shouldn't be compared to the 76ers pre-Process because that Philadelphia team didn't have any cornerstone nearly as good as Giannis.

    The Hawks had their best season ever in 2013, then regressed back to their normal status of slightly above average that they've been in for a decade. It looks like they timed their bottoming-out season right.

    The Hornets are terribly run, but check your facts. They haven't picked in the top 5 since 2013 (a terrible draft), and in 2012 they were one away from Anthony Davis. I also don't understand how they relate to this discussion.

    The point about the Bucks is they drafted well and made some good trades.    A lot of that was done before Jon Hammond left which is some of the reason why they've seemed to become  stagnant lately.  The point was they didn't have to resort to losing purposely for yrs to get a top 5 player.

    Hornets have been terrible.   Didn't realize they managed to even screw up getting into the top 5 despite being terrible is testament to how bad they've been.   They were introduced to the conversation by Gut Wagon who said they were "purgatory".   They are just horribly managed.

  2. 2 hours ago, Gut Wagon said:

    Yep. The alternative seems to most often be to become the Bucks or Hawks or Hornets or Nuggets: not really good enough to ever win anything, but too good to get much help in the draft. It's the purgatory of the association.  

    What the heck is wrong with being the Bucks right now??   They have a player that is better than both Simmons and Embiid and a few other very good young players.

    Derka was just raving about the Nuggets a couple weeks ago.   

    The Hawks are now in full tank mode but they won 60 gms just a couple yrs back.  

    The Hornets are a textbook example of horrible management that I've been talking about.   They have been bad for quite some time picking in the top 5 most of the last few yrs and still have not got better.   They also signed a bunch of AWFUL deals to compound the poor drafting.

  3. 24 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

    philly is set up to be a serious contender for the next decade, which is all you can ask.  embiid and simmons could both be top 5 players in the league 5 years from now.  saric is a swiss army knife that can do a little bit of everything well.  fultz is still an unknown, but there have been a couple of flashes.  they'll have the #10 or 11 pick in the upcoming draft.  they're being seriously discussed as a free agency destination for lebron freaking james.  they have a real shot at making the eastern conference finals THIS YEAR.  

    i'm sorry, but if you don't think that's worth a few years of absolutely sucking then i don't know what else to say.  we see things in completely different ways.  

    As I've said multiple times now, it looks good for them.   I stop short of calling it a success though right now (which has really been my only point).   There are still some ifs.   

    It is not something that teams should start doing as the strategy is not a guarantee nor is it the only way to get good as many seem to think.   For the one seemingly good outcome in PHI there are many teams that have tried and not got any better.  PHX comes immediately to mind as an example.

  4. Just now, Goo Punch said:

    Look man, you clearly have beef with the way that Philly has made their ascension, to the point where you won’t hesr anything hang says otherwise. You think that tanking is deplorable and that trading + signing FA’s is more noble, for whatever that’s with. We get it. You can stop with the asinine arguments now.

    Yeah man, you got it.   That's all I'm saying.  

  5. 10 minutes ago, Machinator said:

    Are you  really going to use MCW in your argument?

    Not saying he was great but he was a serviceable part.   Are you trying to build a team or do you think that if a player is not a superstar you dump him for an unknown?    It would have been different if they were trading guys for players that could make them better.   They dumped for the chance that they might get a player in the draft.

    If tanking was the only way to get multiple great players, how did GSW get Curry, Klay, Dray and KD?   

    I could almost see for a small market team that has trouble attracting FAs but this is Philly.   One of the most storied franchises in league history.    Build a decent team and good FAs will come.

  6. 14 hours ago, pacman said:

    Is G.Allen really going to get into the NBA? I realize there was some hype around him going into college, but I thought it stopped there. I guess his shooting is enough to at least get him 2nd round looks.

    He will more than likely get drafted in the 2nd.   If not, he will defiinitely get a training camp invite and get a shot.  I dont think he is that good but he should hang on at the tail end of someone's roster for a couple yrs before going overseas and doing something like Jimmer did somewhere over there.

  7. 6 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

    Hedo had a pretty good  career and one absolutely outstanding playoff run during the year Orlando went to the FInals.

    Turk blew.  He and Rashard Lewis had one great season built off D12 being a monster down low.   If that is what Doncic turns into, no thanks

     

  8. 20 hours ago, Message Board User said:

    I think most mocks have JJJ over Bagley.

    My top 10 as of this moment:

    1) Ayton

    2) Bamba

    3) JJJ

    4) Doncic

    5) Bagley

    6) Porter

    7) Mikal Bridges

    8) Sexton

    9) Carter

    10) Shai Gilgeous Alexander

    Please let it work out like this.   Then Porter would be there when the Magic pick

  9. 8 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

    This x1000.  Kyrie told the Cavs brass he was going to have surgery, sit out the season and live off his royalties if he wasn’t traded.

    I also wonder if, given what we’ve seen with IT last season and this, any player is going to trust Celtics doctors on when it’s safe to return to action.

    I'm almost positive BOS fired everyone on their medical staff after the IT debacle.    Thought I read that somewhere.   Let me see if I can find a link.

     

    EDIT:  Here ya go:   https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/25/celtics-overhaul-sports-medicine-strength-training-departments/zpEhio7QO3NebWGsEDOSGP/story.html

  10. 5 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:


     

     


    What All-stars did Philly have before all this? I honestly can't think of one great player they have had since AI. Certainly no one that would get them to the top of the East and compete for a championship.

    They are in a better position than they would have been signing free agents and picking in the mid-late draft. That's all the process has done, and they have a bright future because of it.

    If that is true how have other teams done so without tanking? 

    Jrue Holiday, Iguodala were both all stars, Michael Carter Williams was the ROY.  Noel was coming along nicely when they traded him.

  11. Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

    Cavs get a free run and Boston has to be very worried about Irving long term.  Amazing how their offseason splashes aren’t going to help at crunch time this year... 

    Some of this is on Kyrie.   He needed to have the surgery during the offseason but he used that as leverage to strong arm CLE into trading him.   Then he had to play once he got to BOS.

  12. 1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

    So Philly sucks going forward? What we have today is the zenith of The Process?

     

    2 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

    So what else should Philly have done? I don’t see you presenting a better alternative. Philly has gone from THE laughingstock of the NBA to  a very popular, nationally televised, possibly top-4 seed featuring two of the 5-10 brightest young stars in the league in just a few years. Sounds pretty damned successful to me. 

    Interesting.   A better alternative would be actually building a team with good management.    Not giving away all-star players and lottery picks.   So a 4 seed and a few nationally televised games equal success?  Pretty low bar, no?

  13. 2 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:


     

     


    I think it's too early to judge Philly. Their players won't hit their primes for a few more years, but there's no way they get both Embiid and Simmons without tanking. And Philly only tanked for 3 years. They were mediocre the surrounding years. One of those tanking years was while Embiid was out, which sucked, but he proved to be worth the wait.

    Has he though?    He looks GREAT........when he plays, but he still has only played about 85 out of 320 gms.   And now they have to give him a huge deal having no idea if he can stay healthy.

     

    Embiid and Simmons are not the only way to get good.    And you answered my question.    While the future looks good, historic tanking cannot be considered a success yet.

  14. 51 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

    Was Seattle/OKC tanking when they got 3 picks in the top 5? That seemed to work out for them.

    Philly is definitely better off than they would have been without tanking.

    Different sport, but the Astros got their first championship after tanking for 5 years. It's a legitimate strategy, even if it's embarrassing and shady.

    PHI LOOKS like they will be good but there are still a lot of ifs.   Right now, was a 4th seed worth 5 yrs of record breaking shitiness?

    I don't think SEA/OKC was tanking.   They were bad but were only really down a couple yrs. 

    The only time I would say it worked was the half a season SA did it to get Duncan and again that was a half of a season.

     

  15. 13 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

    How's it embarrassing? Being stuck in 13-22 purgatory is the absolute worst scenario to be in?

     

    Fans understand it just like gms. But we don't lose our job if we're paid to tank. The chances of landing a transition talent or signing a marquee free agent if you're in that range are slim.

     

     

    purposely losing for YEARS is not embarrassing?

    More importantly, how often has tanking actually worked?  are we counting the Sixers as "working" already?

  16. 13 hours ago, Message Board User said:

    And the Pistons salary situation is a dumpster fire - my favorite salary here is probably $10+ million to Josh Smith the next 2 seasons.

     

    Payroll Table
      Salary  
    Player Age 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 2021-22 2022-23 Signed Using Guaranteed
    Team Totals   $120,086,105 $117,754,336 $110,253,546 $70,621,597 $38,957,028     $370,165,932
    Blake Griffin 29 $29,512,900 $31,873,932 $34,234,964 $36,595,996 $38,957,028   Bird Rights $132,217,792
    Andre Drummond 24 $23,775,506 $25,434,263 $27,093,019 $28,751,775     Cap Space $76,302,788
    Reggie Jackson 27 $16,000,000 $17,043,478 $18,086,956       Bird Rights $51,130,434
    Jon Leuer 28 $10,497,319 $10,002,681 $9,508,043       Cap Space $30,008,043
    Langston Galloway 26 $6,666,667 $7,000,000 $7,333,333       MLE $21,000,000
    Ish Smith 29 $6,000,000 $6,000,000         Cap Space $12,000,000
    Anthony Tolliver 32 $3,290,000           Bi-annual Exception $3,290,000
    Stanley Johnson 21 $3,097,800 $3,940,402         1st round pick $7,038,202
    James Ennis 27 $3,028,410           Room exception $3,028,410
    Luke Kennard 21 $2,759,280 $3,275,280 $3,827,160 $5,273,826     1st Round Pick $6,034,560
    Reggie Bullock 27 $2,500,000 $2,500,000         Cap space $2,500,000
    Jameer Nelson 36 $2,262,871             $2,262,871
    Henry Ellenson 21 $1,780,800 $1,857,480 $2,856,804       1st Round pick $3,638,280
    Eric Moreland 26 $1,739,333 $1,826,300 $1,913,267       MLE $1,739,333
    Dwight Buycks 29 $748,160 $1,600,520         Two-Way Converted $748,160
    Kay Felder 23 TBD           Two-Way Contract TBD
    Reggie Hearn 26 TBD           Two-Way Contract TBD
     
    Josh Smith 32 $5,400,000 $5,400,000 $5,400,000         $16,200,000
    Michael Gbinije 25 $500,000             $500,000
    Aaron Gray 33 $452,059             $452,059
    Luis Montero 24 $50,000             $50,000
    Beno Udrih 35 $25,000             $25,000

    I'd argue that 20M for an equally useless Jon Leuer is almost as bad.

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