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lemonlime

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Posts posted by lemonlime

  1. Trump has a problem with that whole evidence thing, as a general proposition.  I guess it goes hand-in-hand with the constant lying.
    What raised the issue for me is that it was reported that Dearie said the government had made a prima facie case that the documents were classified, and Trump needed to rebut it.  Fine, makes perfect sense.  But how do you make that prima facie case without presenting the documents, presumably redacted?  Would an affidavit suffice?  Did the government present such an affidavit?  If so it was probably under seal, which is why I don't recall seeing it.
    Otherwise, you're left with attorney argument on both sides of the issue.

    I’m going off memory and certainly can’t remember every document in this case. But didn’t the fbi have a certified inventory of what they took from maralago including boxes containing documents stamped certified. Also, trump never argued in court that the documents the government stamped certified didn’t contain the stamp.
  2. Trump has a problem with that whole evidence thing, as a general proposition.  I guess it goes hand-in-hand with the constant lying.
    What raised the issue for me is that it was reported that Dearie said the government had made a prima facie case that the documents were classified, and Trump needed to rebut it.  Fine, makes perfect sense.  But how do you make that prima facie case without presenting the documents, presumably redacted?  Would an affidavit suffice?  Did the government present such an affidavit?  If so it was probably under seal, which is why I don't recall seeing it.
    Otherwise, you're left with attorney argument on both sides of the issue.

    I’m going off memory and certainly can’t remember every document in this case. But didn’t the fbi have a certified inventory of what they took from maralago including boxes containing documents stamped certified. Also, trump never argued in court that the documents the government stamped certified didn’t contain the stamp.
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  3. I'm not saying we "let" them.  But our system has a degree of tolerance even for the "frivolous."  This is not frivolous, and, legally, it is not abusive.  Even the government doesn't characterize it that way, because it's not and they can't.
    And there's an analysis to be applied and rules to follow even when something is legally frivolous, or less-than-frivolous and just poorly or ill-founded.  These things aren't dismissed at the drop of a hat because angry, armchair lawyers insist they are frivolous or abusive.
    It's exactly akin to those heinous murders and child abuse cases where the surl is howling for summary execution in cruel and unusual fashion.  That's not how this works.  Sorry to be the voice of reason.
    I do happen to disagree with lemonlime's characterization of the thing, in that there are 11,000 someodd documents and things, some of which rightfully a) should be returned to the subject of the warrant (those things truly personal) and b) rightfully cannot be used against him in a prosecution (attorney-client privileged).  There are also a bunch of things that he has no right to that are the fruits and instrumentalities of a crime or crimes.  And, right now, the government is holding all of those things and saying "take our word for it."  Does the government have a basis, and a good-faith one for doing that?  Sure, but it should make people nervous.
    The government also may be stepping on its dick by insisting the PRA applies while not, yet anyway, invoking any of its procedures.  This should worry people.
    I could easily see a judge not in the bag for Trump agreeing to hit the pause button while the sheep are sorted from the goats by a guy like Dearie.  And I think there are a lotta fuckin goats, very dirty, Black Phillip goats.
    At the same time, I could see another, more experienced judge, like Donald Middlebury (the Clinton lolsuit judge), saying fuck all that and I'm not sure I'd disagree with that, either.  But, as I have said repeatedly, if and when an indictment came down, I would be nervous about a motion to suppress evidence or quash the indictment based on FBI/DOJ mishandling/mischaracterization of the documents.  Anyone who doesn't see that is, in my opinion, a complete fool.
    Whether Cannon would or would not do this for any other defendant is irrelevant speculation at this point.  Even if you hate his guts, as I do, Trump has the same rights as any other defendant (as might pertain to personal or attorney-client privileged items), and a few other "rights" that any former POTUS has that any other defendant doesn't, namely a slender entitlement to a privilege no one else has.
    The only real, non-speculative harm the government and the public is forced to endure here is a couple month's delay.  That aggravates the fuck out of people, but it's nothing new.  It's not optimal, but it's the nature of the beast.  Regular people in the legal system have to deal with delays, for their benefit and detriment, all the time.
     

    No it’s akin to I’m trafficking cocaine and the government seized the contents of my car including kilos of coke, and I start yelling “attorney client” privilege because I happen to be attorney. And then get a special master to review everything that was in my car including the kilos of coke. While the government is forbidden from using the kilos of coke until the judge I hired and picked out says that kilos of coke aren’t subject to attorney client privilege.

    And then the kicker is that my client is the government. So I’m arguing that my attorney client documents are privileged from disclosure to the client.

    I respect a lot of your takes. But think this one is bananas.
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  4. There’s also agency documents that cannot be presidential records or personal to Trump. Those go back to the government along with all the classified docs. This legal process is all a sham to delay because we all know he’s guilty 

    It’s all a sham. The guy who orchestrated a coup attempt and stole national security documents appointed around a third of the federal judiciary. Many (most?) of whom are grossly unqualified for their role. And all of whom trump appointed with the intention of having them in his corner. Maybe some have maintained their judicial independence. But many, obviously including Cannon who he judge shopped for, are in the bag for perhaps the greatest criminal ever in this country. It’s madness.

    Trump should have been arrested in January 2021. He’s had another twenty months to consolidate his sycophantic base
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  5. Personal and attorney-client privileged documents will be returned to Trump.  Classified documents and presidential  records will not be returned to Trump. Trump may get access to presidential records for things like a library or whatever, but he will not have ownership of them. 

    Right. But he plainly never had ownership of documents marked classified. Meaning he stole them. Or even under the best possible interpretation since there’s been no trial he somehow possessed documents he didn’t own. To appoint a special master over those documents is still bonkers.
  6. Do the people who write these articles not understand that it's intentional? Yeah, he knew he wasn't allowed to take them. He did it knowing it would become a big deal and he could use it as yet another grievance to lie to his braindead fans and rile them up. He knows he'll never face consequences because as long as his 2a worshipers are angry he thinks they'll take to the streets and just start killing people. I truly hope he's overplayed his hand and he faces consequences. I think he may also have ignored that his gun toting followers are full-on cowards who talk big but ultimately won't do shit (outside a few maniacs). But it's not like he truly thought he could keep them, and he didn't need a private lawyer to tell him that.

    It matters if he’s prosecuted. He will have one hell of a time convincing a jury about his lack of knowledge. DOJ will have the knowledge element of the crime pinned down.
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  7. Anyone have any good autumn recs for Fairfield County burbs (probably Westport)? I have a client thing in October and wanted to make the most of it.

    Maybe The Blaze Not real close, but in Sleepy Hollow, NY. It’s a giant jackolantern thing and I believe there’s a haunted house nearby headless horseman themed. You can get tickets online, but they sell out early. There will also be lots of kids at the earlier time slots.
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  8. 10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

    As I said and as that article underscores, that facile take on where Dearie's sympathies lie is yet another grotesque miscalculation on the part of Trump's legal team.

    The very fact that Dearie, first shot out of the box, asked team Trump for declarations on the declassification meme, shows that he sees right through the bullshit and intends to cut through it like the proverbial hot knife.

    True.  But trump'll just file some other nonsense motion with Cannon, asking for special master Judge Jeanine, or something equally silly.  And he'll get it, or at least delay Dearie's review until after the election.  I hope I'm wrong.

  9. Yeah, I think there are a few other people that live in Long Island (next2naus and spankytoes I believe).
    I am at 58th and 1st.  
    We are heading into my favorite time of year in NYC.

    I live about 10 miles outside of NYC, but haven’t contributed much in recent years to this thread as I’m going in far less than I used to. Mainly because the bus that used to pick up 2 blocks from my house all but stopped running during covid and because I do a lot of outdoors stuff (hiking,biking, camping etc) and I’m more likely to be in the Hudson Valley or Adirondacks than the city on the weekend.
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  10. 44 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

     

    yes, they're all on board with supporting trump and getting him back in office 

    Eh, if that were true, they'd delay this.  Trump gains nothing by having a decision on a stay reached right away.. The more time lapses, the more likely trump gets off.  That they've asked for briefing right away is promising.

    But, we don't know who's on the panel yet.  And even if the 11th grants a stay, fuck knows what Alito and Thomas et al will do.

  11. 46 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

    There is a 0% chance that is true, unless they count everyone from central America as "white".  Why even bother making up statistics like this?

    It's true that 62% of undocumented immigrants are visa overstays, as opposed to illegal border crossing. You can do the math on the racial differences between those two groups, or why the right only cares about the 38% of undocumented immigrants who crossed the border.

    https://cmsny.org/publications/essay-2017-undocumented-and-overstays/

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  12. 4 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

    Yep, and this is from a guy who took pictures of SCI products and posted them to Twitter.

    You don't write on classified documents unless it is a draft to be revised.  The notes are part of the classified document.  Any notes you take on other papers could also be classified depending on what you write and they must be labeled as such with reference to the original classification source, get a cover sheet and are controlled in the proper manner.

    This disregard for national security is enraging.

     

    Yes, but what you're not understanding is that they need to redact the note that says "document sent to Putin 2/1/21."

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  13. 4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

     

    https://hutchpost.com/posts/bcce4d21-0b55-433d-8328-98dee1e7c01e

    https://tennesseestar.com/2021/10/21/biden-administration-potentially-flying-migrants-into-youngstown/

     

    Yet not a fucking peep when the Biden Administration flew migrants from border to areas all over the country last year.  Telling.

     

    So instead of whataboutism, do you support DeSantis using taxpayer money to fly migrants living out of state across the country, and lying to them to coerce them to get on the plane?  Is this okay with you?  Be honest about supporting kidnapping.  Or say something against it.  But pick a side.

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  14. 3 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

    Trump was in power for 4 years before Biden.

    What exactly did he do to "protect" the border?

    Seems it only became an issue when Biden smoked his ass and became president.

    Um, trump lied about putting up a wall that Mexico paid for, and the wall magically became inoperative in January 2021.  Or at least that's what happened in GQP fantasyland.

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  15. 12 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

    The plain fact is that Trump is being treated differently from any other defendant in the same or similar circumstances.  She justifies it by stating concern for Trumps reputation.  You really think any judge would rule that way for any of us?

    Hell, do you think any judge would rule that way for any other former president.  You think if Obama stole hundreds of classified documents on his way out the door, any judge would've bent the law in this way?

  16. 20 minutes ago, Satchel said:

    Will you provide the relevant quotes claiming that the border is “all good.”

    Also the quotes of the "democrat cities" saying they're having a "hard time," other than the Republican governor of Massachusetts complaining about people being kidnapped into his state.  Or that "democrat cities" have "few migrants," when for example Massachusetts has about the same amount per capita of undocumented immigrants as Florida.  His entire post is a bunch of nonsense cobbled together into something approximating untrue sentences.

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  17. 4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

     

    Some of the documents seized, by the government's own admission, appear to be attorney-client privileged.  I don't think anyone wants to argue that the government should be free to investigate on the basis of attorney-client privileged materials.

     

     

    The documents marked "classified" couldn't possibly be subject to attorney client privilege.

    I think the executive privilege argument is off the wall too, but don't want to rehash again.

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