Posts posted by staboner
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Edited by staboner
21 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:I've been wondering about this alot. Maybe this is a bit far afield for this particular thread, but it's related.
I'm not too well versed in what's going on in Europe with the rise of right-wing nationalism and, as a friend of mine in Holland bluntly puts it, fascism. I know Russia is behind some of it, but it's looking like a mass movement; my question is, are the Russians really the driving force, or is it something that arose organically and they're simply helping it along? It seems like it's partly both - the urban/rural economic divide, nervousness about immigration and foreigners, racism - those are trends that the Russians didn't create, although they have clearly had a hand in amplifying them. I guess my question is, are the Russians really that good? From what I've seen here, they aren't; I think the speculation that some former (current?) Surly/Shaggy posters were Russkies was legit, and frankly they weren't that good at anything except stirring the pot. Maybe that's all they wanted to do. The Facebook and Twitter stuff seems like the same strategy. I found it ham-handed and dumb, but at the same time it's hard to say it wasn't effective. I thought they got lucky with Trump, but the fact is they put him in office and have to all appearances been controlling him ever since. That's a huge accomplishment, and even if luck was a factor it still exists.
After typing all this out I think I've answered my own question. Yeah, the Russian trolls are dumb and ham-handed, but at the same time the GRU guys that are directing them seem to be able to find the pressure points on fault lines in the countries they are targeting, and they've been at this for a long time and they're persistent. And of course the people they are targeting are dumb and gullible. So there is a good deal of credit/blame to assign to the Russkies for the rise of fascism we're seeing around the world. I just hate to see them win; it took a lot to put liberal democracies in all the places they exist, and if they go down they're probably never coming back.
some of both.
my two cents - Russia fell apart and had to rebuild itself in modern times. So their power structures are simply more resourceful than ours. They have to be, they couldn't lean on their old money, power and ways of thinking.
they are simply the most successful in waging warfare over the intertrons. my opinion, but i stand by it and believe it.
We're still building faster jet planes and shit. And spending shitloads on em.
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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:
This.
Again, I've picked up the pieces/fought over the results of numerous organizational/institutional failures. Guys like Trump - and the orbit that he creates - aren't unique. They are relatively common, and the whole setup is very predictable.
And yes, they always, EVENTUALLY, fall. The problem is, the damage they do in the interim is often incalculable, and frequently unrecoverable. The institution is irrevocably damaged.
they are all bad people. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/opinion/trump-supporters-bill-white-bryan-eure.html
the output of this corrupted systems is garbage. the people bringing you that garbage don't stand for anything but themselves. party affiliation be damned. they don't give a shit. and Trump runs an org that only runs on this, as noted.
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Official Surly - Big 12 Championship Game Thread - TX/OU II
in Football
jesus no fucking pressure