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DonkeyCigars

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Posts posted by DonkeyCigars

  1. 5 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

    You're trying to come off as reasonable and polite.  You're coming off as a useful idiot, at best and a genteel monster, at worst. 

    I think as human beings, we all want to make sure our impact matches our intention. Not sure how I can communicate better to make sure that I do come off as polite and respectful of differing and varying opinions, but I'll take the feedback if you want to give it. I understand that sometimes, some people either aren't ready or don't want to have someone be reasonable with them.

    It's an emotional topic for some and politics spans the emotional spectrum, I get it.

  2. 6 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

    Shorter version of Donkey: I vote R and always will and the answer is don't talk about politics because I don't read the news. 

     

    Cool, cool. I mean, it's not as if a functioning democracy depends upon its citizens to be informed.....

    I would say it's more like, instead of micro-consuming news, I prefer to get a drill down at the end of a week or a month. I feel like a lot of what is wrong with politics and the people today can be attributed to the the 24/7 twitter reporting culture without a lot of longer form analysis or public intellectuals from both sides. Everything is a fire and an emergency, until the immediate next fire and emergency.

    For those that love it, feel free to stress yourself out and fuel your anxiety, but again to bring this all back to the point of my posting on this thread as a response to the OP (which I thought was a noble question and effort to try and unite rather than divide), I'd rather just keep my opinions and politics to myself then squabble with friends, neighbors, family, etc. etc. In 2020 it's just not good business.

  3. 6 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

    Donkey Cigars, are you cool with this or "are you just not interested in the maelstrom knowing that it's driven by a variety of different motives?"

    What the fuck does that even mean? 

    This is SEDITION. You can't both sides/above the fray this away. 

     

    I read the article, thanks for posting. Here is what I would say from reading this:

    Two key paragraphs stick out:

    The White House budget proposal has been largely a symbolic document, particularly under Trump. Both Democratic and Republican lawmakers in Congress have often ignored the administration’s policy priorities in favor of their own.

    Knowing this is symbolic, it sounds like Trump is fighting symbology with symbology here. I read this as a toddler throwing a tantrum more than a Julius Caesar poised to usurp power.

    Especially considering he still has a few months before having to submit power.

    Is he eschewing tradition and decorum? Yes. As he's always done as a political troll. Completely on brand, folks.

    Is submitting a budget and being a toddler about the election and pretending everything is fine, up until the final day of his presidency illegal or seditious or a crime? I'll defer to legal folks here but I'd guess not.

    The decision to proceed with Trump’s budget for the 2022 fiscal year has rankled and surprised several career staffers given Biden’s victory, as well as the fact that the incoming Biden administration is expected to submit its budget plan to Congress early next year.

    Sounds to me that if you were wise as a Republican you'd toe a very careful line between engaging in the farce as a political middle finger to Biden/Dem's and saving some face and being a professional if you want to continue working in Washington.

  4. 10 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

     

    But this is the typical false equivalence of literally everyone on the right. Please give us one example of the hair-on-fire predictions about Obama from the birthers on the right that came to be true. Anything close to what we got with  Bush and Trump.

    You voted for and still support a crazy authoritarian maniac and his sycophants in the Republican party and--at this very moment--they are taking a giant steaming dump on the Constitution by attempting to exact a coup in plain sight. All so Trump can grift his supporters for money while whipping up the GOP's base to keep them engaged through January 5th. Imagine the reaction from the Republican party if Obama lost his reelection bid and then refused to acknowledge the results and went so far as to fire his Defense Secretary and also have his Secretary of State Clinton make the same statement that Mike Pompeo made today. Cmon man. 

    Those of us who opposed Trump from the earliest stages were proven correct to be very afraid for our country, and if anything were only wrong because we didn't imagine far enough in the extreme.

     

     

    Look, I'm not even up to date on what coup activities you are talking about. I don't watch the news and haven't heard-- I assume he's grousing and dragging his feet because he's a turd like that, but unless he's really putting a Julius Caesar-like, I'm the emperor for life narrative or setting up the military and chess pieces that way, I also assume it's just people freaking out for nothing. Surely he will concede. Maybe not as cleanly and quickly as we all here--me included-- hope, but until then he's a loon doing some loon things on the way out the door.

    Wasn't trying to falsify equivalence, apologize for that. I was just trying to show and state that oceans rise, empires fall and President's with different letters next to their name will come and go.

  5. 2 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

    When "death" is the standard by which you judge our leaders and you continue to make choices by that standard, you have a problem.

    I just meant that, in the way that you tell a kid, I would tell a Trumpkin Republican freaking out that it's okay you just sprained your ankle you aren't going to die. E.G. Quit overreacting to who wins the presidency.

    And maybe that's my privilege showing and unconscious bias, but it's my reality as of press time.

  6. 1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

    It seems like you are trying to have a rational discussion, which is rare in these parts coming from Rs, so I'll engage.

    I would say that everything you said is perfectly fine when you have a "normal" Republican that we have all been used to for the past 40 years.  With Trump, you have to admit it is a WAY different scenario.  We have been forced to talk about politics because he has gone well beyond what any Republican (or Dem for that matter) has done to our institutions and the very basis of how our government works.  

    I hear you, but I think a lot of folks, myself included, just aren't interested in the maelstrom knowing that it's driven by a variety of different motives. I personally haven't had cable in 5+ years. I don't watch FoxNews. I don't listen to news radio. I don't care to have my identity be first-and-foremost a "Republican".

    In that way Trump is no different than Bush was, in fact they seem very similar  in the type of villainy and outrage and hate they received from folks and how people freaked the heck out. Maybe memories fade a bit, but I recall it being pretty intense with W.

    All that to say, Obama took the same intensity of heat when he was in office. He got blasted for being a black guy in a tan suit.

    So will Biden.

    And then so will Conservative Millennial XYZ who wins in 2028.

    And so on.

  7. 1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

    Meh. Most people don't follow politics closely enough to understand the real harm that Trump is doing. He's just the idiot figurehead on TV saying dumb things. At the end of the day, Republicans "cut taxes and believe in Christian values" and Democrats "like abortions, want to defund police, and want to take all of your money to spend on lazy unemployed people and universal healthcare." Most people, even decent ones, don't comprehend the damage that one bad man and his sycophants can do to a democracy, so they are going to, as always, vote for what they believe to be in the best interest of their families and tune out the other stuff.

    I hope to fucking christ that some of those "in the middle" are paying attention for the next 2 months. This goes way fucking above partisan politics, and the next time someone like Trump comes around, open your eyes.

    It's temporary, right? We didn't die under Obama, we didn't die under Trump, and for the love of God I hope Republicans can understand we aren't going to die under Uncle Joe/Kamala. 

    This is all temporary and out of our control anyways; all you can do is vote and then do the best you can to adapt and live the life you feel called to live under the circumstances that follow.

  8. Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

    You think that applies. It doesn't. 

    No I don't really, it was more of a joke based on the refrain "No such thing.." and I edited my post to clarify.

    But the OP's question is how to talk to Republicans/Trump folks and I just gave a perspective. Beyond that, as you can see, I'm showing there is no real value in getting into a pit cage fight with someone if they disagree or want to say I'm not a decent person or whatever. 

  9. As someone who voted for Trump is a Republican and probably won't change that for the foreseeable future, I have plenty great relationships and friends and colleagues and business partners of complete opposite mind. I say all that to say, maybe my perspective could help answer the OP question:

     I think the key is what ztejas said: don't talk about politics. It's really that simple.

    I don't talk about politics at work, with colleagues, with customers; I don't talk about politics at home with family, with friends or with church folk. Half of the people I cavort with probably don't even know my political stances or beliefs.

    I go beyond "Don't ask; don't tell" in that even if you do ask, I might give a cursory answer or a milquetoast response, but I'm 100% not digging into it because there is literally no value in doing so. It probably also helps I don't go on social media and share things or post polarizing opinions as I find that to be tacky.

    I think my liberal friends still like and respect me, but I guess I can't know that for sure. Personally, I find this leads to a nice existence with pleasurable experiences with various relationships, but I know some folks just couldn't fathom living like I do as outlined above because they love politics and it's a hobby or passion.

  10. 28 minutes ago, Llogg said:

    That's a terrible analogy, man. Google is absolutely dominant in market share for the their core businesses: search, online advertising, and mobile. (Android dominates global market, with iOS still outperforming them in the US ~60:40.) And chromebooks are starting to have a slow burn effect.

    Sorry thought it was obvious I was talking about enterprise marketshare

  11. 25 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

    Progressives have wonderful ideas that should be popular with the majority of the country.  It's time to get them on board.

    Yes!

    Progressives are like the GOOG of technology (no offense, re:CCP), in that like GOOG has great technology and people, they think that is or should be enough to win market share and wallet share. But because they don’t invest in the sales machine, they are a distant third place in getting their vision and idea and technology bought and implemented by most people and getting butts whipped by (arguably) inferior technologies like MSFT and Amazon.

    Progressives need to roll up their sleeves and start showing their work and math instead of standing around with the propeller hat insulted and indignant that the general ethic and ideas is not enough to get to people bought in and on the trolley.

    • Hook 'Em 1
  12. The answer has always been in that Democrats need better salespeople. They are showing up at people’s front door with Kirby vacuums and cutco knives to warm referrals from their grandmothers in a world where they need to be pitching outcome based/value-based ROI deals to folks.

    MFA, $15 min wage, raising taxes on Uber rich, all these things can be shown to be a net gain and positive for 80% of the country if the Democrats could be bothered to whiteboard it out and/or take the time to do some basic education.

    speaking of whiteboards, the Dems need more Katie Porter’s, I think her name is.

    • Hook 'Em 3
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  13. 2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

    Right, but a decent part of the country isn't "us." That was my point.

    45% is. 

    That was my point. To further the point:

    This country is too big and disparate across values (and value chains) and beliefs and desires and goals/ideals. There is no shared value anymore. This isn't 1940 with a 1/10 of the population and a closed-system of data/information to inform and solidify thoughts and ideas.

    This will always lead to a division and conflict will never go away, I think.

  14. 40 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

    Seriously though, my apologies. Just making the obvious point that white, educated, relatively successful men aren't usually personally, materially affected by who is in the White House in a dramatic way... which probably accounts for like 75% of this site. My bad for making assumptions that it also accounted for you.

    I was trying to explain to my wife over the weekend why, despite facebook posts and social chatter, this means nothing to her or us or our family. This is temporary, just as Trump was temporary, and ultimately we might pay a little more in taxes if I'm able to crack the 400k mark. If that happens you should feel blessed, not bitter at having to pay more.

    Mostly this has cemented for me the fact that American politics is so broken (e.g. one federal government can't possibly represent efficiently a large geographic/regional disparity of 350mm plus people) that we are going to be a constant pendulum.

    45% voted for Trump-- after the 4 years he showed. That should be eye-opening.

    45% were voting Biden no matter what.

    The independents deciding elections is a crazy methodology or architecture, in my opinion.

    Biden wins, democrats and liberals celebrate for a while and then spend 4-8 years trying to dodge and shield against personal and political attacks about why the suck, then we will over-correct and youll get a Bush or Trump like politician in, and run that play again. On and on, ad nauseam.

    "The first of the line is tied to a tree and the last is being eaten by the ants" - Gabriel Garcia Marquez

  15. I don't disagree, however, that mail-in voting was obviously not a "zero trust" principle or best practice. I wouldn't doubt if there were shenanigans, on both sides. 

    The only reason I'd care, unlike ztejas, is if some wholesale and scaled fraud was uncovered months later or years later in Arizona or Michigan or something like that. if it's the onesy-twosy fraud like I suspect, in my mind it's like petty theft or letting someone walk out of Home Depot with a handful of screws or a JCPenny with a camisole shoved in their purse; not worth cribbing over.

    I don't think it's an obvious reality that there was massive, wide-scale fraud like OnBoard suggests, just because the map and the way things shake out seem so reasonable. Maybe that's the genius of the scam, however...I just don't know. I guess I'll let Joe Rogan tell me what to think in about 3 months.

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  16. 3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

    AOC is correct.

    The last two elections were done in a layup line, Hillary blew one and Biden's is going to fall in after rolling around the rim for 30 seconds first, and establishment Dems are flexing like a Longhorn defender who just gave up a 1st on 3rd & 18.

    Losing ground in the House is unforgivable. The septua and octogenarians who run this party should be put out to pasture. I don't even care much for the guy, but put Pete in charge of the machine and let him work. The good thing with him is that you can just keep the adrenochrome harvesting facilities open so at least the one cool aspect of the Dems survives the transition.

    McCaskill is essentially saying what I've heard in all the other threads here about the Dems leading or having a thesis around identity politics is a loser and they need to be running more on the pocketbook and ROI for middle class and what they can do for them economically. It's the same message and it's not definitively "wrong", at this point, which by I mean it might be wrong but I don't think you can draw that conclusion yet, especially when factoring in how the 2020 GE broke.

  17. I heard this before, but essentially Hispanics have similar culture of Trump voters (Nuclear/cisgendered family values, value hard work, value family, similar cultural interests in value of beer, football, foods, etc., and very patriarchal where the father/male figure is an elder and leader which could lead to some machismo culture which might lead to mild misogyny and prejudice against others).

    • Hook 'Em 1
  18. This thread is for looking back on what has just transpired (and continues to transpire) and either confirm/validate hypothesis or detail the differences between what you expected and what actually happened.

    I heard a lot of people on the main thread comment ruefully some form of the following "Dang, I'm sad/hopeless at the idea that we have way more closet bad people then I hoped or expected" at the high turn out.

    I've heard CNN, etc. expose that a necessarily high-turn out of voters meant an automatic win for Dems, and it was a fantastic comment that elections aren't censuses, you must still sell the vision.

    But for me, my biggest takeaway:

    Facebook/Twitter, while not completely innocent, was unfairly scapegoated for Trump winning in 2016. People blaming technology are blaming the wrong thing-- blame the human being and I think 2020's showing illustrates this.

  19. 22 minutes ago, Tom said:

     

    This keeps getting repeated on this board and it's based on nothing but conjecture.  Nobody knows how the election would turn out with a different candidate.  Regardless of how it ends, everyone was wrong about how Biden would turn out.

     

    I feel the exact same way about the conjecture that the COVID-19 response under Hillary would have been better, saved more lives, etc. Nobody knows in what ways and how she. might have mismanaged it, just as you posit nobody knows for a fact that Bernie would have been landslided, but that doesn't make it any less probable or reasonably expected, in both cases.

  20. Where do democrats go from here?

    I think the Democratic Presidency will be the flip side of the Republican Presidency we've had the last 4 years:

    1) Partisan, bitter divide in both the government and the public

    2) Nothing really gets done/approved/passed in a gridlock, outside of executive orders

    3) A vocal minority of ANTI-BIDEN spawns up on this website and dominates the CR.

    4) There is a Red Wave in 2022

    5) It's a close win by GOP in 2024

     

    I, for one, welcome the perpetual motion of the pendulum swinging.

    And spare me with the progressive far-left needs more oxygen; Warren, Bernie, etc. would have been boat raced in this election and would have ushered in a 2nd Trump term-- Democrats, and American's at large, owe the change here to the adults in the room that propped up Biden as he was the only path.

    • Hook 'Em 1
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  21. 6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

    I know it won't happen, but if/when Biden wins this election, they need to publicly state that we should abolish the electoral college. 

    The reality is it's a massive deterrent to positive change in this country. 

     

     

    I don't agree; America is too large to be decided by a few metropolitan areas. If it were a smaller country without regions I would agree.

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