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Texas Fight

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Everything posted by Texas Fight

  1. I can’t answer all of it. The flood plan hanging on the cabin walls was to stay in the cabins. Nothing about leaving them. When the camp leadership did decide to evacuate, there are several accounts of adults (Dick Eastland (director), Glenn Juenke (security officer and former Ingram Chief of Police) and Edward Eastland (Director) were all actively helping girls evacuate out of cabins.
  2. No offense, but if the numbers were 88 people dead instead of 134, I highly doubt you would be on here with equal amount of praise for how much lower the death toll was because of how the county decided to install sirens. I can only imagine you writing something like, without sirens, "It could have been a lot worse."
  3. That would have been a great post. You should have just stopped there. Instead, you accuse them of shit that is totally false and you had no idea about. They were awake, monitoring NWS warnings ahead of time, had a plan in place, etc...
  4. I agree. Their negligence starts well before monitoring the weather warnings 24/7 or having an approved/inspected flood plan. Cabins in a flood plain, where they have actual knowledge of the cabins have filling up with water is long before this situation ever occurs. That is where the negligence starts.
  5. This is your first post on the subject: I know no one wants to say it right now, but the people that own and operate the camps hold a lot of responsibility here. If you’re hosting that many children, at a site that close to a flood prone river, you should have at least one person on staff monitoring this 24/7, and a well established and trained evac plan. You made a false accusation there was no plan and that the leadership was not monitoring this. I called you out and said you didn't know that and were talking shit. You double-down and said, "What do you even mean? If they had started following the news when the NWS, Austin and San Antonio Mets were calling it out multiple hours in advance, we would not be having this conversation." They were 100% following the news and the NWS warnings hours in advance and we are in fact "having this conversation". We now know, they did have a plan and were executing it. It clearly was a shitty plan after the fact. But, the FACT is they had a plan, it was inspected and approved by experts (July 2nd), it was posted in every cabin, it was part of the counselor training, and the camp leadership stuck with the posted/inspected flood plan until it wasn't working. At some point, they started to move kids out of cabins into the Rec Hall or Cypress, or into trees... 27 kids died. There is a ton they should have different. But that is not what you accused them of. You said they were asleep, not monitoring the storm and did not have a plan in place and if they did, "we would not be having this conversation.".
  6. Yes. We now know that camp leadership was monitoring the storm and the warnings 24/7, proving your accusation 100% false. We also know they had a flood plan, inspected and approved by State of Texas Health department on July 2nd. The plan was hanging in every cabin (plenty of parents have taken photos of the flood plan since they have returned to pick up kids belongings). The flood plan literally says “stay in your cabin”. No where does their plan say to leave cabin and walk up toward Cypress Camp. The camp executed the posted plan until it was obvious it wasn’t working. Then the evac’d. So, 100% yes. The camp leadership was monitoring (Dick and son in office monitoring), they did have an inspected/approved plan and it was posted. They did follow the plan and 27 kids died. What part of this is incorrect?
  7. I understand the concept. You hear a siren, and you immediately get up and know exactly what to do and where to go and are clear on time to act. Think tornado or nuclear bomb. Id like for someone to show it practically for a flood. I think you all know Hwy 39 (if not, look at it in Google map). Consider the stretch from River Inn to Ingram Dam. That’s where all of the people are. There are probably 7-8 low water or river crossings that certainly flood the majority of the time in these scenarios. - When would a siren have gone off in this instance or any of the previous floods? At what water level, at what location, giving what amount of time for public to take action? - What are the instructions? Get in your car and take the 1 road from River Inn to Ingram? Or towards hwy 83? Or leave your RV and walk to higher ground in the storm? Does one or both cause more risk than just staying indoors? Not necessarily for THIS flood, but for the 40-50 floods before this one. - At what point does the siren go off, and only go off, in a scenario where staying indoors is no longer the safest option leaving your dwelling IMMEDIATELY, in car or on foot, is the safest and only option. I.e if a siren goes off, the instructions and timing are clear. Do “this”, immediately. Again, I get the concept. I’d like to see it from concept to reality. Can it be done simply and effectively? How do you see it working?
  8. The Mystic leadership was waiting for the sirens. Only sirens can save people. Come on. Stay on message. Actual words like “life-threatening flash floods” is nothing compared to a tone siren.
  9. His mom is batshit crazy. Helicopter mom to the nth degree.
  10. Flood warning systems? Like notifications to the camp leadership? If no one does anything effective with the information what is the point?
  11. I should have included this excerpt.... The Eastlands put a high premium on two things: making money and avoiding taxes. By the mid- to late eighties, camps across the nation were confronting the very expensive problem of personal injury suits. Suddenly a camper accident—or, worse, a camper death—could spell ruin. Something had to be done. When Seaborn died, in 1990, finding a solution fell to Stacy. Stacy’s goal was twofold: protect the camp from any devastating legal judgment and maintain the family’s shared income. (Anne insisted that she get at least the $200,000 in dividends she’d been receiving every year.) By 1998 he had devised a solution. He created a holding company that would own the camp’s assets, including the land and the buildings, to be called Natural Fountains Properties, after some springs on the grounds. NFP would be run by Anne, Stacy, Nancy, Dick, and the cousins, with Dick as president. Stacy also created Camp Mystic, Incorporated, which would be owned and operated by Dick and Tweety. Essentially, NFP was the landlord and Mystic was the tenant. To establish a fair rent for the family—and to keep those dividends coming—Stacy created a mathematical formula based on the idea that land values and camp revenues would grow at the same rate. Every year, Dick was to add the cost of replacing all the buildings to the land value, then multiply that number by a designated factor.
  12. This is exactly what I think. Read the Texas Monthly article from 2011. The camp owns nothing and moves money in and out each year to the owners, family members and the real estate holding company. https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texan/the-not-so-happy-campers/ Stacy Eastland designed the Camp Mystic corporate structure and the family land it sits on. Apparently, he is pretty good at what he does. Times have changed for camps. Personal injury lawsuits, summer vacations shortened by state governments, and increased competition (bike tours to Bangkok, summer school at Harvard) now threaten their very existence. Many of the oldest institutions are family businesses that have seen the land value of their attractive locations skyrocket; it is not unusual for long-established places to falter as descendants push to break up the land and cash out to developers or to zillionaires in search of ever-larger weekend homes. Texas camps have not been immune. About three miles down the road from Mystic, Camp Arrowhead—where Farrah Fawcett was once a camper—shuttered its doors after more than fifty years, its demise due to family squabbling that erupted after land values started outstripping camp revenues. Instead of featuring summer activities, Arrowhead’s website now recounts the tragic circumstances of its closing. (“Greed does horrible things to people,” reads one statement.) Stacy Eastland once hoped to protect Camp Mystic from that fate. He, like Dick and Nancy, grew up pitching in with the family business, working summers at the camp. He remembers a happy childhood with wonderful parents: The Eastland home, just outside Loop 610 near Memorial Park, was a place where discussions about current events were favored at the dinner table over TV. And though competition was valued—they were, after all, a camp family—the siblings were mostly tight-knit. Growing up, Stacy and Dick hunted and fished together, went to the boys’ camp Rio Vista, and met up to watch UT games. While their mother used her political acumen to boost Mystic’s cachet around the state, their father did the legal work for Mystic, a role Stacy eventually inherited. Stacy and his wife, Tara, now live in an understated Georgian-style home in an understated part of Houston. He is well known in law circles as the expert on the family limited partnership, a legal instrument that helps wealthy families save or eliminate inheritance taxes. His mastery catapulted him from a partnership at Baker and Botts to a managing directorship at Goldman Sachs, where he lectures nationally and advises the representatives of even richer people on estate planning. He is one of those people to whom the word “brilliant” is often affixed as a modifier.
  13. I believe Duplantier plays outfield? Peterson had just about everyone on the 2025 roster play in front of him. If we end up having to play either of these options, we have real problems.
  14. I’m curious if signing Freeman, Dotson, Morokenek in the height of portal season kept us from getting other guys. Hopefully we didn’t allocate too much NIL money to these 3 that kept us from being competitive with others. If so, should we only target non-draft eligible transfers going forward and beef up the $$ to lower the risk? The good news is we have now have freed up NIL money but not sure the quality of guys left to sign. Anyway, losing guys in the 17th round seems like Schloss was duped or he is really bad at navigating the transfer process.
  15. The improvements are now pretty smoked. I’d imagine they could get around $20k/acre if it includes all of the waterfront and acreage together (700+). Maybe more if they divided it up and sold smaller chunks. Call it $15-18mm total? That doesn’t go very far across dozens of attorneys, 27 families with a dead child and 100+kids with emotional injuries. I have no idea how the insurance part works, but there will be a lot of claims sucking on it.
  16. Your wife really thinks Mystic is worth $140,000 an acre? Wow
  17. With the transfer portal and our NIL, if Duplantier is a starter in our infield/outfield next year it may be time to start the Fire Schloss thread.
  18. Or Katrina, Helene, California wildfires, Maui, etc...
  19. If Surly (or the Internet in general) required you to post under your real name/identity, we would have a lot more civil and productive society.
  20. Seems like that is the case for most/all of the people on this river last week. The Texas Monthly article about the family who lost the toddler is another example.
  21. For a plane crash, all of the info is in the black box. That’s why they are so desperate to always find it. The black box for this event will be in the logs, recorded audio, alerts, depositions, texts, emails, dispatches, phone records, etc…
  22. Im curious to hear your opinion when you are ready. From my few conversations, it seems that the dads want to wipe the camp off of the face of earth but the moms are not quite there. Too much of an emotional tie to the place.
  23. Glenn should know exactly how it works and who to call. He was the Ingram Chief of Police up until 1-2 years ago.
  24. Thanks for the exact quote. It’s the perfect example of a question to the wrong guy at wrong time. If you don’t agree, how do you think a mayor, who wasn’t in office during those votes, should have answered? Should he have just shared hearsay? maybe something like, “Morgan, great question. I read on surly some snippets of a vote 9 years ago and some ridiculous comments about crazy people my preseasons made that look horrible right now considering what has happened. I’m glad I wasnt in office then.”
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