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Texas hosts #2 Kansas, 1pm on ESPN. KU -6

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29 minutes ago, Camelback80 said:

It isn't "against the coach's wishes." The point is Shaka has agreed to utilize him in a way he wants to be utilized as part of his signing here.

Happens all the time, especially when schools that aren't traditional powers go after the big time players.  I'm not sure where this kids was ranked but it is clear that Shaka does not have the gravitas to make demands of his players.  Which is another reason to fire him.  Even KU has had a couple of players come through that want to be utilized a certain way regardless of what is best for the team.  Those guys usually transfer once they realize they aren't first on the depth chart in their desired position.  I remember David Padgett and his father wanted him out on the perimeter.  He transferred after a year.  Same with CJ Giles who was 6'11".  These guys saw the floor but at the 4/5 spot and if they didn't want to play that spot then they sat behind a kid that was much more suited for the perimeter.

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Baker is a teenager who needs a wake up call and some strong coaching in how to smartly develop and use his physical advantages and basketball skills.  Shaka is analogous to a pet owner with a potentially really cool, but out of control, hunting dog that could be awesome if he decided to teach it some basics.  For some reason he allows the dog to keep pissing in the same spot on the rug and smiles it off. 

At about 0-5 from distance, he should've pulled Baker aside and said, "now that you have that out of your system, lets use you in a way that might benefit you and your team".  At 0-10, he should have gone borderline Bobby Knight on Baker and restricted him from shooting anything outside the paint until further notice.    

Baker is a giant who was probably a fat, awkward kid just a few years ago.  He'll will realize he's got some significant advantages he can use at some point.  One would hope his coaches would expedite that process, but it looks like he's just getting the "go have fun" level of instruction.

 

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20 minutes ago, VinyVango said:

Baker is a teenager who needs a wake up call and some strong coaching in how to smartly develop and use his physical advantages and basketball skills.  Shaka is analogous to a pet owner with a potentially really cool, but out of control, hunting dog that could be awesome if he decided to teach it some basics.  For some reason he allows the dog to keep pissing in the same spot on the rug and smiles it off. 

At about 0-5 from distance, he should've pulled Baker aside and said, "now that you have that out of your system, lets use you in a way that might benefit you and your team".  At 0-10, he should have gone borderline Bobby Knight on Baker and restricted him from shooting anything outside the paint until further notice.    

Baker is a giant who was probably a fat, awkward kid just a few years ago.  He'll will realize he's got some significant advantages he can use at some point.  One would hope his coaches would expedite that process, but it looks like he's just getting the "go have fun" level of instruction.

 

Is he the next Dylan "The Derka Special" Osetkowski?

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9 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Is he the next Dylan "The Derka Special" Osetkowski?

I will seriously wonder if he starts putting in more time on his corn rows than his free throws.

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That's a totally reasonable take, Viny.

Some of you seem to think that Baker is making this decision to shoot on his own and needs to be trained not to do it, but that's not exactly the case. He is playing a role in the offense and that role is a stretch big.

Against a man-to-man defense, he comes out to the perimeter to draw his man with him, a man who is probably the defense's best rim protector and rebounder, so it's really good to draw him away from the basket. Then the stretch big Baker gets the ball at the 3 pt line with option to shoot or pass inside depending on what the defense is giving him. Since he has presumably drawn his man away from the bucket, there should be more opportunities to score inside with a pass to a cutting guard. If his man sags off him or stays under the bucket, then Baker is supposed to punish the defense with an open 3-pt bucket.

Now, the problem is that Baker has failed to execute this role in a big way. Like he's been mostly a liability than anything else. But he's a freshman so before COMPLETELY REWORKING what Baker's role on the team will be, he is being given some minutes each game to grow into the role of the stretch big and get better at executing it. Part of the role is taking the 3 if the defense gives it to you. Now I can totally understand if your argument is the role isn't right for him, but, changing that role is also problematic.

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Will Baker is the perfect example of the problem(not Will himself, I think he'd be a serviceable piece if he were to play down low).

The #1 reason we hired Shaka is because of his final four run and havoc.   He completely changed because he decided to run an NBA type offense to get the recruits he wanted at Texas. My guess was this was always his plan.   The problem is he has absolutely no idea how to coach said offense.  And to top it off, apparently it seems he may actually be worse at coaching shooting and offensive fundamentals. Baker as a stretch 4 is just silly, slow and can't shoot, but he sold him on that being his role in the offense.

He came to Texas to learn on the job on how to coach an NBA offense.  Yeah! we are Shaka's personal training ground! Patterson was an idiot and Perrin was even a bigger idiot.

I think he has a decent idea on how to coach defense.

I really really hope this is it for Shaka at Texas.  Paid millions to learn on the job and he failed but someone will give him another shot. If he lucks into some natural shooters or an all world point guard, it might work.

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58 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Will Baker is the perfect example of the problem(not Will himself, I think he'd be a serviceable piece if he were to play down low).

The #1 reason we hired Shaka is because of his final four run and havoc.   He completely changed because he decided to run an NBA type offense to get the recruits he wanted at Texas. My guess was this was always his plan.   The problem is he has absolutely no idea how to coach said offense.  And to top it off, apparently it seems he may actually be worse at coaching shooting and offensive fundamentals. Baker as a stretch 4 is just silly, slow and can't shoot, but he sold him on that being his role in the offense.

He came to Texas to learn on the job on how to coach an NBA offense.  Yeah! we are Shaka's personal training ground! Patterson was an idiot and Perrin was even a bigger idiot.

I think he has a decent idea on how to coach defense.

I really really hope this is it for Shaka at Texas.  Paid millions to learn on the job and he failed but someone will give him another shot. If he lucks into some natural shooters or an all world point guard, it might work.

NCAA rule changes (halo rule) probably had more to do with abandoning the havoc, pressure defensive style than anything else.  Even West Virginia has gone away from it.  That being said, the lack of do or die toughness and guile has been the biggest issue plaguing Shaka his entire time here.  We consistently haven't been able to rebound for shit during his entire tenure. Turns out platitudes and culture classes don't do much for ending a good defensive possession with an actual rebound. 

Also his over reliance on analytics and effective FG% have been the death of him. Those things work well when they're combined with actual basketball savvy and individual player creativity, especially when moving without the ball. But at the stage of basketball development most college players find themselves in,  this sort of algorithmic adherence to spacing and shooting the 3 actually  stunts players in my eyes. It's better to have prescribed movement in your base offense that is purposeful with movement and actual cuts towards the basket.  This Houston Rockets, stand around bullshit is dependent on having multiple highly skilled players who are elite shooters and playmakers with the ball in their hands which we simply don't have.  And for lack of a better word it dumbs down player instincts on what to do when they don't have the ball.

There are a million times a game where a simple slip to the basket from someone unexpected like Hepa or Baker would not only give us an opportunity for a basket,  but also have the added bonus of getting those guys in rhythm and actually breaking a sweat before they hoist up another uncontested 3. Not to mention the multiple times a game where a weak side cut to the basket would give us the simple benefit of making the defense actually move and exert energy to defend us. There are a number of ways to employ this open floor offense on  the college level, we just seem to have chosen the worst one.  

Edited by Catdaddyhorn

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Some good conversation and reading here (well, except Jhawk haha j/k). Thanks for sharing.

Edited by Braff Zacklin
And Camelback, but not kidding there.

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3 hours ago, Camelback80 said:

It isn't "against the coach's wishes." The point is Shaka has agreed to utilize him in a way he wants to be utilized as part of his signing here.

Again, the coach has so little standing on his sideline that he lets a guy who should earn the right to shoot outside of the paint just be able to do what he wants to do?

No wonder things have been so bad.

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11 minutes ago, JWinTX said:

Again, the coach has so little standing on his sideline that he lets a guy who should earn the right to shoot outside of the paint just be able to do what he wants to do?

No wonder things have been so bad.

Lol. That's not how it works, man. Don't know what else to tell you. You don't "earn the right" to shoot outside. You take what the defense gives you. If they give you an open 3 point look and you can't hit it, then you ride pine, which is mostly what Baker has done.

Edited by Camelback80

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44 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

. . .

There are a million times a game where a simple slip to the basket from someone unexpected like Hepa or Baker would not only give us an opportunity for a basket,  but also have the added bonus of getting those guys in rhythm and actually breaking a sweat before they hoist up another uncontested 3. Not to mention the multiple times a game where a weak side cut to the basket would give us the simple benefit of making the defense actually move and exert energy to defend us. There are a number of ways to employ this open floor offense on  the college level, we just seem to have chosen the worst one.  

AMEN

We might even draw a few fouls!

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51 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

NCAA rule changes (halo rule) probably had more to do with abandoning the havoc, pressure defensive style than anything else.  Even West Virginia has gone away from it.  That being said, the lack of do or die toughness and guile has been the biggest issue plaguing Shaka his entire time here.  We consistently haven't been able to rebound for shit during his entire tenure. Turns out platitudes and culture classes don't do much for ending a good defensive possession with an actual rebound. 

Also his over reliance on analytics and effective FG% have been the death of him. Those things work well when they're combined with actual basketball savvy and individual player creativity, especially when moving without the ball. But at the stage of basketball development most college players find themselves in,  this sort of algorithmic adherence to spacing and shooting the 3 actually  stunts players in my eyes. It's better to have prescribed movement in your base offense that is purposeful with movement and actual cuts towards the basket.  This Houston Rockets, stand around bullshit is dependent on having multiple highly skilled players who are elite shooters and playmakers with the ball in their hands which we simply don't have.  And for lack of a better word it dumbs down player instincts on what to do when they don't have the ball.

There are a million times a game where a simple slip to the basket from someone unexpected like Hepa or Baker would not only give us an opportunity for a basket,  but also have the added bonus of getting those guys in rhythm and actually breaking a sweat before they hoist up another uncontested 3. Not to mention the multiple times a game where a weak side cut to the basket would give us the simple benefit of making the defense actually move and exert energy to defend us. There are a number of ways to employ this open floor offense on  the college level, we just seem to have chosen the worst one.  

Good post

I don't disagree that the cylinder rule might have made it a bit harder but he had changed before the rule went into effect.  the big time recruits(read recruits don't generally have Duke, Kentucky, Kansas AND VCU on their list), really don't want to come to play havoc unfortunately.

The problem has been since Barnes players left our shooting is beyond abysmal.  When your shooting is abysmal and you don't have at least 2 out of 5 guys on the floor with the athletic ability to really break down a guy off the dribble consistently there is no space to slip someone to the bucket. By random chance we have one good shooting game out of 4(about 7 to 8 a year)

Matt Coleman is the only guy that can really do this consistently.  Ramey can if the defender is average. The rest of them suck and have shitty handles.

We are on the same page here.  you can see our guys come down the floor and in their head "Ok I pass to this guy, he passes to that guy, he passes to that guy, I set screen, I pop, he rotates to opposite corner".  It is the same 3 fucking passes to get into our offense and we still end up 28 feet from the bucket after that.  I'm shocked that no one jumps it more but why take a chance when we are gong to brick a 3 anyway. yes a weak side cut now and then would be nice to see but I think you and I both know it really won't matter with this fraud running our program.

 

Edited by dcar00

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As an observation, shitty handles on guards have to be the most frustrating thing on a basketball court. That and passing that is off the mark. What the fuck do these guards practice???

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