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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

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Posts posted by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

  1. 4 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

    To Bozo's point (and in reference to the "why now, what's there to gain?" question); from studying history there's always the possibility it's just a weird result and not necessarily driven by greater strategic thinking.  Say, for example, maybe Iran made possible future payments dependent on "performance".  Maybe Iran actually told them to NOT do something last year because they were overwhelmed with their own protests and felt extra vulnerable and this is just a delayed action from that.  Maybe Hamas is beset by internal power struggles and going to war was a way for leadership there to reassert control. 

    I've been listening to the BBC Empire podcasts and there's quite a few milestone moments in history that could have gone the other way but for something unexpected. 

    I don't think it's a coincidence that this happened after Bibi put together a far-right government and placed people in very powerful positions who believe it is Israel's divine right to occupy all disputed territories.

  2. 39 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

    Here's a question: presuming that there is SOME rational/strategic thought behind Hamas's attack (for the sake of argument, let's assume that this was more than just flailing in violence by some people full of hate)....what is the play?

    I think it's out of desperation. They've come to believe that they'll never live freely in their homeland and that more and more of their land will be taken from them. Maybe they just don't see a future worth living in and their only goal is to enact as much pain and suffering for the group they blame for their hopeless lot in life.

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  3. 1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

    Insults: the last move of those who don't have a good argument. 

    I mean, I'm sitting here arguing with a complete moron. It's a moment of introspection for me and not something I'm proud of.

  4. 2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

     

    image.jpeg.e98adabf9340dd14e04db98d5ebd09f5.jpeg

    Hamas is celebrating the murder of innocent people through terrorism.

    The Israeli that started this lovely exchange celebrated the murder of people through terrorism.

    Are those facts helpful at all for you?

  5.  

    2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

    This isn't about Palestine. This is about Hamas. And yeah, it's pretty fucking binary at this point. But keep on doing what you do to "muh both sides" this.

    No my comment was about a far-right, ultra nationalist that deifies Jewish terrorists and has stated that Palestinians should be removed from Gaza and that his family's right to live in freedom trumps that of Palestinians' rights to live in freedom.

    I was hopeful we might find common ground in condemning him as the piece of shit he is, but your brain can't get there and still make sense of anything.

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  6. 1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

    So he has beheaded and raped innocent civilians? Stop trying to equate things that don't equate.

    Are you able to process anything here in any other capacity beyond 'Israel good, Palestine bad'?

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  7. 4 minutes ago, Woodrow Call said:

    Again, I'm pro-Israel, but this guy isn't helping things. 

    “Jerusalem is ours,” he said. “The Palestinians can go to – the Gaza Strip should also be ours – can go to Saudi Arabia or other places, like Iraq or Iran.

    “Not here, this is our place. Israel is our country.” He's made numerous comments about creating a law to expel anyone that acts "against the state." It's pretty clear what he wants. 

    A little more info from wikipedia. Sounds like he's the Jewish version of Hamas. Good thing he was put in a position of power.

    Quote

    Itamar Ben-Gvir (Hebrew: אִיתָמָר בֶּן גְּבִיר; born 6 May 1976) is an Israeli lawyer and politician, who serves as the Minister of National Security.[1] He is additionally a member of the Knesset and leader of Otzma Yehudit.[2][3] His political position has been described as far-right.[4][5]

    Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. He removed the portrait after he entered politics.[3] He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology.[6]

    Under his leadership, the Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power), a party which espouses Kahanism and anti-Arabism, won six seats in the 2022 Israeli legislative election, and is represented in what has been called the most right-wing and hardline government in Israel's history.[7][8][9][10] He has called for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel.[10] Ben Gvir is "widely known for his openly racist, anti-Arab views and activities".[11]

    Ben Gvir had been long accused of being a provocateur, having previously led several visits to the Temple Mount as activist and member of Knesset, contentious marches through Jerusalem's Old City Muslim Quarter, and set up an office in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood which witnessed several evictions of Palestinians.[12] On 3 January 2023, he visited the Temple Mount where the al-Aqsa Mosque is located, spurring an international wave of criticism that labelled his visit purposely provocative.[12] As a lawyer, he is known for defending Jewish radicals and terrorists on trial in Israel.[13]

     

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  8. 19 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

    Maybe I'm too old-school-educated for the modern world...but I'm having a hard time grasping that fighting back then going on offense against an attacking enemy constitutes "genocide."  Of course every conflict in that region (and most other regions) involves one or more race/religion against another, and to win you have to severely damage the enemy.  

    To me "genocide" is the unprovoked killing of masses of people for the sole reason that they belong to a particular race or ethnic group.  

    I guess arguably if the retaliation is devoid of any military or anti-terrorist purpose, and is just blowing up buildings because Palestinians live there....then that's where we get the genocide label?

     

    We're referring to their plan to cut off water, food and electricity and lay siege to Gaza, which was the quoted plan from a high-level IDF leader.

    Not a single person here is suggesting that Israel declaring war and going on the offensive to wipe out Hamas is genocide.

    That said, given the most recent statements made by the IDF it sounds like their US masters made clear that isn't going to fly.

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  9. 2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

    Also have a hard time thinking that if I was in their shoes, that I'd give a fuck either.

    Same statement could be said about the Palestinians. The situation is so completely and utterly broken/untenable that neither side sees any hope in the future. Which makes decision-making a fraught exercise.

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    • Like 1
  10. 4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

    You're not wrong.

    I just come back to this: a movement that has as its unambiguous goal the extermination of all Jews wherever they may be found, a movement that is supported by the people of Gaza, has committed an act of genocide (yes, that's what a massive campaign to slaughter Israeli civilians is), and promises to commit more.

    How do you respond to that?  Not "we did this because you aren't allowing our infrastructure to develop."  No.  "We did this because we will not rest until every Jew is dead."  Is there any other sane or rational response OTHER than rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands very, very dirty?

    That's one of the reasons that "all or nothing, every one of you must die" movements/wars are the worst fucking kind of war.  There's an argument to be made that Israel would be stupid to leave anyone alive in Gaza.  Of course, there's the counter-argument that Israel would then be as bad or even worse than what it is fighting.  Neither argument is without merit.  That's why I don't look forward, at all, to what is to come.  There are only bad outcomes on the horizon.  Pick your poison, but don't fool yourself -- it's all poison.

    Oh it's a huge fucking pickle, I'm well aware. But I tend to think that committing genocide will not work out in Israel's favor in the long-term. 

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  11. 1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

    Collective punishment is generally a no-no but if anyone has earned its use it’s the Gaza Palestinians. I think the Israeli government is licking its chops to show no mercy to teach them a lesson.

    There is an immediate desire/need for revenge. Then there is the ongoing need to remain a state in good standing with the rest of the world.

    We've heard every Western leader come out and state their country's absolute support for Israel's right to defend herself. But if they decide to murder 2 million people? I'm not sure that's a tenable situation for Israel moving forward.

    • Like 1
  12. 4 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

    Hopefully not - but turn the question, can Hamas really hold onto a few hostages and allow that to happen to the Palestinians?

    I tend to think their collective mindsight is 'what's the point of living if we can't live freely'. You pose a good question, and I suppose we're about to find out, but damn this is bad.

  13. 2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

    I think that's gonna be the plan to start with, at least.  So, they definitely CAN do it.  The question is how long they'll do it, and what the ultimate end-game is.

    I just don't see how a state that was created in response to the genocide of Jews can turn around and starve 2 million people to death. 

    Also, I don't think Israel can do much of anything without US approval. 

  14. 1 minute ago, Wally Fairway said:

    certainly not - they will starve 2,000,000 to get a few 100 back; flipping the switch will only encourage the militants

    I believe after this incursion the government, and many citizens, will believe there is no point in being a dove and offering an olive branch

    Can they really do that? That's genocide.

  15. 5 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

    pretty sure the plan is to do, continue it for an indefinite period of time, and to squeeze as hard as they can looking for hostage release. This is how the Israelis negotiate hostage release.

    and if that doesn't work, they flip the switch and give them food, water and electricity?

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