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Turbo Tax can EABOD


Neonmoon

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On 10/18/2023 at 9:28 PM, Neonmoon said:

In Europe, people are cutthroat about negotiating. Realtor commissions are max 2%.

Wrong.  RE commission are established by cross-agency industry commissions, if not established by law, and are often higher than 3%.

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On 10/18/2023 at 11:00 PM, Samson's Wig said:

Many members of Congress think the tax code is the best way to manipulate behavior ...  Both sides fucking suck, as does anyone who supports this shit.

 

Im sorry what.  How do you alternatively propose encouraging changes in industry (say, domestic semiconductor production), society (more education), population shift (e.g. getting people to move somewhere), or basically anything else that we would want people to do.

It's like, the least-bad form of coercion.

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6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Im sorry what.  How do you alternatively propose encouraging changes in industry (say, domestic semiconductor production), society (more education), population shift (e.g. getting people to move somewhere), or basically anything else that we would want people to do.

It's like, the least-bad form of coercion.

So you think that the tax code should be wielded as either a weapon or a means to manipulate decision-making?  That's fine, and you're not alone.  I disagree that it's the least bad form of coercion. I think there are better ways of accomplishing these goals and that the tax system should be as neutral as possible so that decisions are made for economic reasons and not tax reasons.   Many economists agree with this notion, and it's certainly not my idea.   Who doesn't agree with this?  Politicians.   

I'm not a free-for-all free-market proponent.  I'm all for the regulation of industries (the best form of which is eliminating tort reform and allowing bad actors to pay the consequences for their actions with their pocketbook - but good old-fashioned regulation through federal and state agencies is also great).  I'm also in support of propping up industries (such as your semiconductor example) through some form of subsidy which can take the form of loans, govt. contracts, etc.   The tax code doesn't have to be involved in these things (although refundable tax credits can be a reasonable use of it), and its use in this manner is exactly why it's a monster full of loopholes, contradictions, and general nonsense.  It's also one of the major reasons semiconductors were being built overseas in the first place - that's one problem with trying to use it for coercion, you almost always have unintended consequences.   Politicians love it more than anything else because Americans don't understand it and they can use it to benefit their donors and/or punish their enemies.  These are essentially the only ways the tax code is utilized anymore, even when they're dressed up as a subsidy or otherwise, and both types of uses are rife with corruption.  The insanity that is the varying rates for different types of capital income is a prime example of just how bunged up the system is.  Most notably, our tax code encourages debt over equity financing, which is just fucking stupid on its face and a big part of the economic woes we've seen over the last fifteen years. 

A completely tax-neutral system is not feasible (needed coercion should come in the form of refundable tax credits rather than deductions), but this notion should underpin any tax reform discussion, in my opinion.  It would result in a more transparent, approachable, and navigable tax system that would streamline economic decisions and ultimately further stabilize our economic system - which has become shockingly fragile in the last few decades thanks in large part to our tax code.

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18 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

So you think that the tax code should be wielded as either a weapon or a means to manipulate decision-making?  That's fine, and you're not alone.  I disagree that it's the least bad form of coercion. I think there are better ways of accomplishing these goals and that the tax system should be as neutral as possible so that decisions are made for economic reasons and not tax reasons.   Many economists agree with this notion, and it's certainly not my idea.   Who doesn't agree with this?  Politicians.   

Incentives as a motivator of behavior is also a basic principle of economics. The tax system is a means of implementing it.

Subsidies and other like-tools you mention are essentially different forms of taxation. That extra business you get from the govt through arbitrary award, that cheaper cost of financing, has net impact on your bottomline and the govt treasury in the same way as a discount on taxes. And its ultimately borne by everyone else, ie a tax. 

In the tax code theres a deduction for filing as married and child tax credit and those things incentivize family, and is not some controversial scheme by lawmakers to enrich themselves. That there are esoteric tax rules way past their shelf life and/or do not serve societal good I agree — and argued against upthread. Its just that you cant hate the game cuz you hate the playas. 

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I would say that most everyone on the CPA side would support a free file system. We don’t deal with the filers impacted for the most part. It’s a much larger risk to H&R Block, TurboTax, and all the f-ing hacks out there that shouldn’t be doing tax returns then it is to me. There are a lot of things that still aren’t covered by an IRS submitted form, so you are really only dealing with people that have W-2’s, investments (not great because there are still plenty of 1099’s missing basis information), retirement payments, etc. Rentals, businesses, K-1’s, a number with kids under 5 or over 18, etc all would fall outside of a free file system.

As far as the code, it’s complicated because it has always been a means for social engineering and that has been compounded the last 20 or so years. No one knows it front to back, so we’re all likely missing something at this point. 

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On 10/17/2023 at 11:05 PM, CooterBrown said:


That happened to me two years ago. Tried to file through Turbo Tax and got a message that my return had already been submitted. Had to fill out a fraud form and mail in a paper copy instead.

Joke was on them though since I owed an additional $15,000!

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Something similar happened to me about 10 years ago. My tax preparer told me someone had filed a return for me. I owed $10k or so. I learned that 80% of IRS staffers’ time is spent dealing with identity theft issues.

IRS now sends me a new PIN every year in Jan that I use when submitting my return.

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