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Posts posted by Brian Fantana
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26 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:
Iran moving what material it had produced isn’t some 4D chess move. It was the obvious thing to do once they realized that their air defenses were useless and that their nuclear sites were targeted. The very fact that they were moved at all suggests the Iranians weren’t as confident in the bomb proof nature of their facilities as many on this board or knew at the very least that they’d have to dig it out.
There was no way for anyone to be confident in what would happen. These weapons had never been used in a real world operation before. Whatever they thought or didn't think about the structural stability of their facility is entirely irrelevant, moving the material was the only move to make in the face of such uncertainty.
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4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:
Mossad is very good at what they do, but I don’t think that’s true. “They” may have been a leaking bucket but the operational security between Hamas and Iran is probably very tight, for them anyway.
Furthermore we can only guess what Mossad knew. And it’s possible to know things without knowing what they mean. Our own experience leading up to 9/11 is a good example of not putting pieces together and acting on information.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Firstly, this would not have been under Mossad's purview. Second, there are heaps of evidence that Netanyahu's government was aware of Hamas' plans and did nothing, you can probably guess why. There have been dozens of articles written about this subject just by Israeli journalists alone.
How can you possibly have your head stuck this far in the sand?
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17 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:
More than likely because they don't have the time to pay much attention to politics and just cast their vote for the guy whose name they recognize, doubly so because he doesn't have a scary brown mooslem name.
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7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:
Even if they didn’t explicitly order it or approve it, they were aware of it before it happened, didn’t act to stop it, and subsequently ordered celebrations and banners hung on the streets. Which makes sense, because they were the primary beneficiary.
You talking about Iran or Netanyahu's government? I can't tell, please be more specific.
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On 6/11/2025 at 12:48 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:
He’s not the optimal vehicle for it, but Andrew Cuomo’s messaging is very good.
On 6/11/2025 at 1:03 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:Look, people follow leaders and messaging that is clear, tangible and immediate.
They don’t understand the magic words or care about checking the boxes The Groups want checked. They don’t follow ideological abstraction and they don’t want to support politicians who run away from the language of class.
Cuomo talks about real stuff that matters using short words and definitive, meaning statements people understand.
he’s too damaged and too much of a New Yorker to win a national race, but his messaging is good.
I'm still chuckling about these posts, as if Zohran didn't present a coherent message that resonates with voters. I love it when liberals try to silence progressives by falsely claiming they only care about "magic words" or pandering to "The Groups" and don't understand their insane bigotry.
Hold this L.
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4 minutes ago, Captainant said:
[Laughs in whiskeyleaks]
I too enjoy orientalism
I quoted the wrong person, whatever it's fine
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25 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:
Getting checkraised there is a disaster spot, he’s only getting one street of value from hands he beats and can induce bluffs on the river.Agreed, checking back is fine in that spot.
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12 hours ago, blacklab said:
I can't stand him, he does shit like this just to annoy people.
He also will just sit there till someone calls the clock on him
Yeah I think it's fair to hate him. And he shouldn't do shit like that. I think the table talk is entertaining, though.
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2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:
Everything you just said is bullshit.
Yeah ok buddy keep coping.
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55 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:
Well sure:
1) The United States, the ethnically and culturally diverse two hundred year old secular republic that is the world’s economic and cultural center, for all of its flaws, has nothing in common the Islamic Republic of Iran, a 46 year old 3rd world pariah state.
2) Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations, Israel is a nation-state
3) Israel is not a proxy of The United States in Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah, with respect to October 7 and everything since are almost exclusively Iranian proxies.
Literally the only similarity is the acceptance of financial and military aid. it’s just an absurd analogy
I'm pretty much over the word terrorism, especially when insufferable liberals use it to describe every Islamic and/or Arab person, country, or group (or those who are sympathetic) that does something they don't like. The word basically means nothing anymore and arguably never did. Most people and/or groups that are designated terrorists are only designated such because we (the US) have insisted on it. I have been called a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer literally dozens of times on this fucking board, by insane reactionary conservatives to annoying shitlibs that seemingly get all their notes from Jake Tapper, simply because I am pro-Palestinian. A DT poster said I should be on the terror watch list yesterday.
Hell, by definition, a ton of different actions taken by the United States and Israel could and should be considered terrorism. For example, orchestrating and initiating coups in sovereign countries (including, but not limited to, Iran) and our many acts of deliberate destabilization (including, but not limited to, Iran) but only aren't because they are nation states.
Israel has, just since October 7th mind you, mercilessly bombed Lebanon, killing thousands of and displacing over a million civilians, and deliberately destroyed critical non-military infrastructure. I don't know what to call that besides just straight up terrorism. And since it's being perpetrated with US weapons and money, state-sponsored terrorism. Hezbollah is an active Lebanese political party with a paramilitary wing that was formed in direct response to Israeli aggression and violence. Does Lebanon have a right to defend itself? I guess not, since it is an Arab country that the US/Israel doesn't like.
Pretty much everything Israel has done in Gaza in the last several decades could and should be considered terrorism. Their enforcement of apartheid measures in Israel proper and the West Bank, and the active and open sponsorship of settler violence in the West Bank are quite literally terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism.
Saying they are not our proxy when they could not sustain even a single one of their aggressive campaigns without our military and financial support is laughable.
You are using semantic differences in order to twist yourself into knots to not have to face the facts that there are far more similarities than you'd like to admit. Your contention is, effectively, that as long as a nation state does it, it's not terrorism. Whether or not you recognize that's what you're doing is irrelevant, it's simply reality.
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3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:
iran has to be running low on missiles ?
Weird that you're not doing a victory lap anymore like you were in the DT thread.
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Hey good idea, Ritchie, why don't you throw yourself off the Empire State Building while you're at it you fucking racist pussy.
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15 minutes ago, burnt beanz said:
This story was broken by someone with a history of breaking high profiles stories that turn out to be disinfo.
Give some examples.
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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:
No, he asked how TRUMP could convince Israel to call off the dogs. The leader of a dominionist fundagelical death cult (sure, he doesn't actually believe any of that stuff, but needs all those believers to love him) is never, ever going to "restrain" Israel.
Yeah I mean obviously he's never going to do it but he could, easily.
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11 minutes ago, Hitch said:
I don’t know how Trump can convince Israel to call off the dogs.
Easily. Threaten to stop the money and weapons spigot, and fucking mean it. Israel is incapable of sustaining a campaign against anyone without our money and weapons, period.
Why do you think they threw such a shit fit and Bibi got on the first plane to America to come scold Congress when Biden threatened to reduce military aid by an effectively marginal amount last year if Israel invaded Rafah?
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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:
"Sure, Hamas and Assad and the Iranian regime are bad, but, but-for Israeli shittiness, they wouldn't be an issue" absolves the other players.
Actually, my position on Iran has been all along that they likely wouldn't be led a regime this shitty in the first place had we not deposed their democratically elected leadership at the behest of British oil interests. I don't think I've ever once blamed Israel for the way Iran is today. Sure, they have their own agency, they could have just sat around, allowed the Pahlavi dynasty continue to brutally oppress them in perpetuity, and not done the Iranian Revolution, but is that a fair criticism?
I make the same argument about Mexican drug cartels. Yes, they are horrifying monsters with plenty of agency to not be the way they are, but it's unlikely they would have had the opportunity to become as powerful and ubiquitous as they are if it weren't for the insanely idiotic American War on Drugs. Similar to how it's very unlikely that the Ayatollah could have become as powerful as he did without the pressure cooker created by the monarchy that we [re]installed in their country.
Hamas is a different animal, because at its inception it appeared to be a grassroots movement in response to the perceived corruption and growing unpopularity of the PLO, heavily (and discreetly) supported by Israel, I might add. It's patently ridiculous to blame its existence or its continued existence on Iran, as well, considering we know how it was continually propped up by Israel, and even received lots of outside support from other countries at the behest of Israel.
The things you continually call a "but-for" are just necessary historical context.
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9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:
I think @956 Worldwide's post yesterday is right. Iran's ability to both project force and to defend itself have been seriously impacted, their proxies they thought would help have shown themselves unreliable partners, as have Russia and China. The status quo isn't the same.
However, it seems that all we've accomplished is a small delay in their nuclear program. In exchange for that delay, we've made them much likelier to pursue a bomb ASAP, have essentially destroyed international nonproliferation, gave Russia and China some new info on the B-2's capabilities and shown them that our bunker busters may not get the job done. Oh, and we've made it much likelier that Iran will be ruled by even more hardliners going forward.
You can see how Israel sees all of this as a victory for them. But it's hard to see how it's a victory for us.
Yeah I think I agree with all of this. Another point is that I suspect we will start hearing more rumblings about discontent within the IRGC, which would indicate a coup could be coming. There's just about no chance that regime change in that form would be favorable to us, though.
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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:
Cool. You've seen my posts. You know that I am regularly and often "on your side," offer positive rep for a decent take, etc. I'm just telling you that I -- as that same person who agrees with much of your reasoning -- finds the constant "but Israel" shit exhausting and frustrating as hell. I find it no less exhausting than the counterpart "everything Israel does is justified because Israel good Hamas bad" shit takes we see plenty of around here.
I know man but that is just a really bad take that isn't in alignment with what I actually believe and you should know better. Like I have fucking family in Israel, I don't hate it, I want it to be better than it is.
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Yeah I'm done responding, good luck with all that buddy.
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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:
Sigh.
You know how viscerally - and correctly - you respond to folks who just say simple shit like "Iran is bad because Iran is evil," or "the common thread in terrorism is mooslems?"
Well....your one-note response of "whatever we're talking about, it all comes back to being Israel's fault" is the other side of the same simple-minded coin.
While we should not absolve Israel of responsibility for the chaos and violence that has plagued the region for decades, your responses all come back to making Israel the sole owner and root cause of.....everything. But for Israel, none of these bad actors would have been forced to be bad actors. Fucking bullshit. Iran is a great example of that. There is ZERO reason for Iran to be an existential enemy of Israel. The primary reason it is.....is because it's totally controlled by a theocratic regime that needs a good external enemy to rally the folks around to distract from oppressive fuckery at home (yeah....a play the US is dusting off like crazy these days).
As exhausting as it is to hear the usual suspects blame everything on those dirty mooslems, it's just as exhausting, and as invalid in light of complexity, to hear your constant drumbeat of "everything that is bad in the world is the fault of Israel and US support for same." It's all like listening to "Boomer Sooner" over and over again. No variety or complexity, and sister-fuckingly stupid.
There's ALWAYS time to abandon the Kurds, of that you can be sure.
Except that isn't what I'm doing, and now you are being disingenuous. I'm not saying "everything bad is a result of Israel and the US", we are talking about those specific groups he mentioned in his post. It is not my fault that literally all of them spun up in direct response to Israeli/US/Saudi Arabian actions. That is inarguable fact, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise to make people feel better about their support for those actions.
I have never once denied that Iran provides significant material support to those groups, I am arguing that placing the blame entirely on Iran for their existence is ridiculous. Doing that is nothing more than a bullshit rationalization and is often used as a way to manufacture consent by Western media. Everyone involved holds a portion of the blame.
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4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:
I always heard that it had to pass the premeditated test? I guess bringing a knife to a track meet maybe shows premeditation. But just bringing the knife doesn't mean he planned to kill that particular victim, or does that matter?
That's the word I was looking for. I am not sure if the Surly lawyers have answered this already in this thread but I am curious.
Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran.
in Cloak Room
Posted
It is not "my opinion", though it's very cute that you're attempting to frame it that way to discredit the point. Also, no one is "affronted" that you call Hamas a terrorist organization, the point was that while you [correctly] call Hamas a terrorist organization, you handwave away terrorism committed by nation-state actors simply by the virtue of them being nation-states. Not to mention the fact that these same nation-states are the ones that get to define what is and what isn't terrorism. Convenient, isn't it?
Also, you both demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of what Hezbollah is and why it exists, and completely ignored the point about the goings on in Lebanon entirely. Very nice.
All that coupled with your speculation about what Mossad knew about the attack when anyone with even basic knowledge of how Israel operates would know that intelligence gathering with regard to Gaza & the West Bank and any counter-terrorism operations fall under the purview of Shin Bet.
In other words, you're talking out of your ass and seemingly operating on nothing but vibes, stereotypes, and whatever you hear from Western media talking heads. It's annoying.