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Lurch

2020 Poker: Color Up!

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Eh, based on his prior play that you shared I don’t think you can kick yourself too much for the call. You ran the odds and he’d shown a bluff in a previous hand. Wasn’t necessarily a bad read given the circumstances, just the wrong one.

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2 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

played a hand, curious to see what the board thinks.

1/2  I am SB this hand sitting with $350.   

BB is a younger kid who has shown some disciplined folds, but also been caught bluffing.  hes got about $300

3 raisin asians in the middle spots, and 2 aggressive players in CO & button (both over $500).

I have KdQh, 2 MP players limp, as does the CO.  button makes it $12. 

I could just fold here, but that seems nitty.  so I call, BB calls 1 MP calls.    4 to the flop.

comes Qd-7d-3x

I really think someone, esp button will take a stab at this pot. so I check.  checks to button, who, sure enough puts out $20.   without much hesitation, I make it $50. 

BB tanks for a bit before finally calling, everyone else folds, including button. 

Td on the turn.   I check for both pot control and the obvious draw getting there.  But I do have the Kd so Im not going anywhere when he bets.

Except BB checks. 

River is the Kc.  so now I have top 2.   I check again, figuring if he had something like AK or QT T7 hes probably gonna bet $50. which I would call without too much hesitation. 

He takes a while and bets out $100. 

Is this ever a bluff in 1/2?  

Its less than half pot. 

A straight probably bets a little less.  I think any other 2 pair does a smaller value bet (or maybe even just checks it back)

I tank for a while before I act

what are the boards thoughts?  autofold? sigh call?   fuck it and get up and leave?

 

 

Snap call

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I'm calling there. I wonder why he didn't bet the turn. If he had bet the turn I would have called. Not sure what I would have done if he had bet the turn and river.

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I'm calling there. I wonder why he didn't bet the turn. If he had bet the turn I would have called. Not sure what I would have done if he had bet the turn and river.


Checking back the nuts in position headsup can be very profitable. Imagine in this hand KC doesn’t have the Kd. He may actually fold to a turn bet since he may already be beat plus 20% of the time the river is a 4th diamond which is crushing to his hand, and he knows he may also have to call a river bet.

But if turn goes check check then KC is much more likely to call a river bet since it buys him showdown. Also KC may go for value on river thinking he may be good (def think he should be betting this river for example).

I just had a hand like this in a tourney where I turned nut flush heads up and checked it back. Opp paid off a river raise and said he just didn’t think I had the flush since I checked.

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$2/2 w $300

LJ limps. I make it $20 in HJ w AcKh. Only he calls. $44 pot

6c5c2h. He checks, I cbet $20. Call. $84 pot.

4c. Check Check

3h. Check Check

He shows 8c7c for straight flush. Says he didn’t bet turn or river because he was afraid I’d fold and he didn’t know how High Hand works. He could have screwed me on both.

Reminder: sometimes losses are wins

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Yeah $400 and the table share was an entry into some sort of lotto in March, so I’m going to assume I’ll win that and just call it a net positive

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I keep fucking putting myself in a damn hole almost every freaking session.   bought in for $220, managed to run it up to $300, lost it all on a bomb pot where I flop 2 pair on the bottom board and 1 pair on the top.  Bet out $20 got 2 callers,  turn gives me a 2nd pair on the top board, but put a straight option out there.   tighter player shoves and I call.   hes got the nut straight up top and top pair on the bottom. River gives him a 2nd pair on the bottom for the scoop.  It was a stupid call by me.  The pot was only $100 give or take and he makes it $300 effective.     What the fuck am I beating by calling there???

 

lesson learned, again, the hard way because Im thick headed. 

 

bought in for another $300.  lost about $100 before finally getting up to $350. before this hand. 

managed to get AA in the LJ,   limps galore to me.   I make it $20.  I get FIVE fucking callers. 

Flop comes Ah,Qx-9h.   Checks around to me.   I bet out $40    (looking back I really think I should have bet more, like $60).  button calls as does MP. 

turn comes 7x.   Checks again to me.   and this time Im making damn sure the flush draw is paying.    I bet out $150.    (looking at it, Im thinking I should have made it $100).   

Button folds and MP takes a while and calls.

river is the brickest of brickiest bricks, 3x.          MP takes a while, so much time that I have to ask if the action is on me.     

He eventually shoves (hes got me covered), and I say call as I flip over the nuts, he mucks.     He claimed he had Q9, but I think he was on the flush draw and missed. 

played for another hour no real changes, cashed out at $802. $30 in tips so a +$240 session

Edited by AUS-97HORN

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Yeah I’d go $60 on flop as that’s what I’d do on my other Aces on that wet board.

 

On turn, you were offering $150 to win $540 (28%) or $690 (22%) to catch a flush (they thought 18%, but 2 of their catches would boat you up). Seems like you set a good price.

 

$100 would have been $440 (23%) or $540 (19%). Too close for me. I like your $150

 

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7 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

Two pair on both boards heads up is a damn strong hand assuming they aren’t super coordinated.

in my case, it was a bad call, there were 3 of us still in the hand.   I had 9-6  on a 9-8-7-6 top board.    bottom board was J-9-6-4     turns out he had JT.     He open shoved as FTA on the turns. I still had the guy behind me to act after I called. 

you cant always go looking for monsters under the bed, but Im in deep shit against any T or 5 that happened to have its 2nd card pair on the bottom board.     and I fucking paid him off anyway

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 5:39 PM, AUS-97HORN said:

in my case, it was a bad call, there were 3 of us still in the hand.   I had 9-6  on a 9-8-7-6 top board.    bottom board was J-9-6-4     turns out he had JT.     He open shoved as FTA on the turns. I still had the guy behind me to act after I called. 

you cant always go looking for monsters under the bed, but Im in deep shit against any T or 5 that happened to have its 2nd card pair on the bottom board.     and I fucking paid him off anyway

 

Eh. I wouldn't say deep shit. There is no hand that can have you beaten on both boards. I would expect an open shove to be a straight on the top board trying to scoop, and so that I'll be good for the bottom board, with 4 outs to scoop myself. Also once you call, the guy behind you has a very tough decision even with something like J4.

If there was a T or 5 on the bottom board, I think you can more comfortably fold, since he can now have you beat on both boards.

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Got back into poker after a long time last night. work and trying to hassle my apartment for maintenance sucks. But I had a pretty good night, if a bit short. Bought in for $250 in 1/2, cashed out for slightly over $850 over 3 hours. That said, there's one hand that I'd like y'alls opinion on since I'm a bit out of practice.

It's at the middle of the night 6 handed and I'm MP with 43ss. Button straddle 10, BB calls I call button checks. Flop Ks7s5x. BB $15 and button and I call. Turn is Ax. BB $20.

So I have a double gutter and a flush draw. I don't really know much about my opponents other than BB is a bit loose, but generally not too wild, and BB has been playing a lot of hands, but a lot of them have been pretty strong aces and mid to high pocket pairs, but that's it. BB and I are both a little over $300 eff. with the button covering us both. what would you do here?

Edited by TheLonghornKid
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A lot going on here. This is effectively a limped pot as no one showed any strength pre. FWIW, I’m probably always folding 43s from MP. I may limp behind on button, or if no one has entered yet, I’ll open with it on button.

 

BB betting flop is fairly common for me when I’m BB, everyone just limped in, and I hit something. He could have any pair, any two pair, and also the draws with you. His sizing is standard. I probably would have raised to $45 if I were you

 

On turn, he makes an odd bet. First, he’s saying the Ace didn’t slow him down, which is odd if he had a K. Second, he only bet $20 into a $75 pot, which is quite small on this very wet board. Two pair should be betting a lot more to protect against the draws. Seems most likely he too is on a draw, which should concern you because your flush draw is quite weak. You may only have 6 outs. Given how you’ve played it so far, and you have a caller behind you, I probably just call and hope BTN doesn’t raise me out of pot. The time to get fold equity was missed on the flop, imo.

 

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Hmm, alright. Yea, I figured I probably should've raised somewhere in there. Like I said, I'm fairly out of practice, so I think a lot of my success was just running good. I'm still trying to work on specifically finding spots to try and get folds when I have a lot of equity even if I get called.

 

Also, as a fun aside, that happened to be the second hand in a row I got those exact hole cards. Flopped the wheel and stacked a poor soul that flopped top and bottom pair.

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Play more hands from button and progressively fewer as you move away from it. Having position is critical for picking spots to bluff in. Not knowing what someone behind you will do on each street really puts a damper on bluffs.

 

As for when to do it, think about what you would bet with AA. You can put these strong draws with your strong hands and bet them the same way. Problem here is that you limped pre, so you don’t have AA or AK in your range. You pretty much have to have a set or a strong draw when you raise him on flop as suggested.

 

Flopping the wheel for stacks is uber fun, but be realistic about how often you flop pure shit and fold. You needed his stack to offset how often you’ll lose with that hand, limping in MP

 

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managed to play a session where I didnt get stacked early.  Bought in for $210.

Although  I lost $40 on my first hand with AhJd. I was UTG made it $5, got 5 callers.  flop came As-Td-6d. I checked  2nd to act, OMC bets $5, gets 3 callers,  I check raise to $35. OMC and 2 others still call.  turn comes Kd. 

I check, OMC bets out $100 pretty confidently, and it folds around, including me. didnt think OMC was betting out with less than 2 pair there and I didnt think going after the inside straight or 3rd nut flush draw was a smart idea.

very next hand I am BB Ive got QJcc and UTG makes it $15, 4 callers, including me.   Flop comes Tc-5c-2c,  FTA, I check figuring that someone would take a stab at the pot, esp the Ac, and I didnt think I could donk lead there. But, it checks around.  Turn is 3s.   This time I lead out for $20,  get  3 callers.  River is Ah.  I bet out $40.  trying to get a caller. (or, somoene who decided to bluff raise)  instead all 3 called.  Flush wins.  So I take down a healthy pot.  

Got the stack up to around $500, but slowly bled away.  I decide after 3 hours I am on my final rotation.   I lose $100 right away to a guy who just stacked himself to the tune of $600 with QJ on a 5-6-9-T  board. where on the turn he FIVE bet shoved into the stone nuts of 78 who flopped the straight.  So he was STEAMING, he rebought for $100, raised UTG to $15,  I had T7ss in the HJ, I called, as did button and MP.  Flop came Js-7x-3x.  Checks to him, he bets $20.  MP folds, Button really looks like hes about to fold. So I know hes steaming, he could literally have anything (he jokes constantly that KT is the Mexican Aces) and I go with 2nd pair and raise to $40.  he shoves for $85 total I call, turn is 2s giving me a lot of extra outs. But river blanks and he shows QJ again. 

2 hands later a player who is aggressive and constantly overvalues his top pair open raises to $15. 

A few hands before this hand, opponent with A5ss raised to $20 pre, got 2 callers,  flop came A-6-T.  He checked the flop and called a late position $20 bet. Then on the turn which was a 2. He led out for $75.   That got called.  river was a 4 and he led out for a large uncounted stack that turned out to be $120.   he got called by literally the only ace he could beat, A3. Dude was not value betting the $120 there, he was trying to push another Ace off their hand. 

So this hand happens, I have KJdd, and call in MP.  folds around.  and the Flop is Kc-4c-8h.  He checks.   I bet out $20, and he quickly calls.

Turn is Ts   He immediately bets out $75.   This hand is going exactly the same way as the other hand.   I call.   River is a low non club card brick.  He just pushes another large uncounted red stack into the middle, turns out its $140 this time. 

It looks just so identical to that last hand, there isnt a straight, no flush, and I tank for a while before finally calling.   He shows TT for the turned set.     I get up and leave with $30 left.   so I booked a $180 loss.   I just thought he had a weaker K.  and normally I would have folded there, but it just seemed so close to the previous hand where he had top pair and a bad kicker.   Oh well, back to the drawing board. 

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Yeah, I don't like the open UTG with AJo to 5. You are OK getting multiple callers with hands like 55 or 87hh or even AJss but big offsuit cards don't play well multiway, especially in bloated pots. I feel like opening to 10-12, folding, and limping are all >>> opening to 5. And I don't like varying open size by hand, so you need to construct your open range appropriately.

I also haaaate the flop check-raise in the same hand. You are the preflop raiser, then you check-raise an ace high flop.  What is your target there? Are you trying to get value? Trying to bluff? If you had called a preflop raise, say from the BB, then did this, maybe. But now your hand looks super strong, but is actually medium to medium+ strength. If the PFR checkraises an ace high flop and you have AT, how do you feel?  Pretty bad, right?  And unlikely anyone has AQ or AK for us to try to bluff off. So what are we doing?  Betting or check-calling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check/raising.

Also fold the T7 pre. We aren't NEARLY deep enough effective to call with T7. The guy has put in 1/6 of his stack pre. We don't flop gin even close to enough to make up for all the times we just whiff and lose $15, or get a small to medium piece and have no room to maneuver b/c the stack to pot ratio is so small, and drop $100 with a marginal hand. 

On TLK's hand, agree, need to just fold the 43 when 6 handed. Raising could be acceptable, depending on game conditions. I think postflop calling or raising flop is OK, and calling or raising turn is OK. 

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Going to take another dip in the Omaha pool tonight.  Hopefully will report back on Monday with some fun results.

 

 

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$600 on $2/5

I open UTG2 to $30 w 88 as CO just posted. LJ and BB call. $85 pot

7 4 2 rainbow. BB checks and I bet $60. LJ calls. BB folds. $205 pot

6x. I bet $120 and he smooth calls.

4.

Can you find a 3 barrel here?

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Both flop and turn are bigger than I like and we have a very big pot now without a very big hand. Any info at all on LJ? Does he know you?

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Mid 30s Dude from India. We’ve played a bit. I’d say he’s LAG. Capable of bluffing as well as value betting middling hands.

My bet size needs to be consistent through my range. An over pair on a board that hits callers more than me requires a firm bet on flop, I would think. Turn bet is a bit of a semi bluff. I’m saying I’m quite strong and if he calls I’ve got outs to nuts. I really thought he’d shut down.

When he calls, I’m not really sure what I could be ahead of.

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I agree we need to have a consistent bet size. I don’t think it should be 80% pot on a board where he has range advantage. We should bet smaller not bigger when we are at disadvantage.

We can beat hands like A7, 87, 76. I don’t think he’s folding 99+ at this point. I don’t love either river option honestly.

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Yeah just a shitty spot. I check and he quickly bets $160. I fold. Bah.

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Loose, passive $0.50/$1.00 game. 10-handed. I'm familiar with almost everyone at the table, and they're familiar with me. I've played with them for 4-5 years. I have the reputation of always having it, so I've been trying to incorporate more bluffs into my ranges.

3 players limp to me in the SB. I have Q-9 of clubs, know the BB is only raising with a big hand, so I call.

BB calls, $10 in the pot, and the flop is: J of diamonds, 10 of clubs, 7 of clubs.

For anyone who pays attention, my lead-out range here is big hands only, 10-10, 7-7, J-10, A-J sometimes, but I'm sometimes raising 10-10 and A-J pre-flop. I've been trying to be more aggressive with my big draws, and I want to have some bluffs, so I lead out $7. I got three callers, two early positions and the button. They have stacks of $70+.

Thoughts on if this a good bet out of position? Should I have gone larger? I didn't expect everyone to fold. I was trying to build a pot for when I hit a big hand, and I was going to call any reasonable raise. In this game only two-pair, a set, or 8-9 would raise me there. Maybe A-J or K-J if they put me on a draw. I almost wanted a raise, because in this game a higher flush draw is never raising.I have 40% equity against a set, I'm flipping against two-pair, and I have a slight edge over 8-9. All of those would pay me off if i hit my hand.

When the button called he mentioned something about "pot odds." Higher/lower flush draw? gut-shot?

Turn was 6 of diamonds. I checked and it checked around.

River was 4 of clubs, so I hit a flush. I bet $20 planning to evaluate if I got raised but folding to a big raise. Everyone folded.

I wasn't sure how to handle three callers. These guys should recognize a strong bet from me out of position, yet when I check the turn isn't my hand almost face-up? Against aggressive players wouldn't I have needed to barrel the turn?

How would you have played this?

Edit: My question is, if I'm going to have a lead range on that flop from the SB, what should my check range on the turn be? Should I start checking some of my sets there, maybe top pair-top kicker, and give a free river card in a multi-way pot? 

 

Edited by Bookman

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These are good questions to ask.

For one, you should definitely be raising hands like TT and AJ over limps to you. You don’t have to 3b them if it is already raised depending on players and position (and should sometimes be folding AJ to a raise depending on these factors.) Some players would raise this hand over limpers but I would also just call, it plays fine multi-way, and I don’t like bloating pots OOP with marginal hands. I would raise Q9s if I’m on the button over most, but not all, limpers.

I also think you should have a much bigger lead range in limped pots. In a raised pot, there is likely a c-bet so leading into a raiser is much different than leading into a limped pot.

You should be pretty consistent with sizing esp since this is a regular group. Leading 2x pot isn’t what I would do. That said if we have this many players calling 2x bets maybe that’s the play. But we wanna be able to lead lots of hands here and can’t if $7 is our sizing.

I think checking turn is fine, again esp if we have a wider flop lead range. If we lead out with a hand like middle pair A kicker or top pair no kicker and get 3 calls, we should be checking turn. So that covers us if we wanna check our draws here.

Betting turn again would be fine if we bet smaller on flop. But I just think if 3 guys call a 2x pot bet on flop we are unlikely to win with a turn bet. All the sizing stuff said, you need to know if the guys in your game look at bet size compared to pot or just in “real dollars”. For example is $7 into $3 “eh just 7 bucks” but $25 into $60 “whoa big bet he must be serious”?

River lead seems standard/good. Part of this shows the peril of being OOP. It just looks stronger when you lead out on a flush card river. Making the straight would be a better strategy next time.

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had a few decent sessions of +$220, +$180, and +$250.  Had an interesting hand that I thought I should share.

at this point Ive got around $500 in front, I am the button this hand, and the CO is BEYOND tilted. 

Hes been stacked the full $300 three times in the last 30 mins.  Hes making very odd raises pre, post, and then calling with 3rd pair shitty kicker on the river or a pocket pair better than 3rd pair on the board.  example, he stacked off on a J-8-9-5-K board where the K brought in the front door flush.

He had T8 no flush blockers where he called a pre bet, tried a flop raise (got called), turn bet ( called), and then the Kh hits.    other guy lead out in to a $150 pot for $250.   CO Dude snap calls.   other guy has AThh.  seriously the ONLY bluff that could have stayed and missed is AT without a flush, pretty much everything else that can call those bets and raises is ahead of you. Hell a guy bluffing with 9T is ahead.

CO just re-bought for $300 the hand previous.

so I get T3hh as button multiple limpers, incl CO, and since Im the button, lets pay $2 and see a flop.  except SB raises to $15. He gets 5 callers, incl CO... so for $13 more with a pot of $90, lets go.   Flop comes Jh-6h-5c

SB checks, UTG leads out for $15. everyone else calls incl me. Im aware its not a great draw, but I will call and evaluate later, SB folds???   (no clue what the hell he could have raised in SB with and then check folded to a $15 bet into a $200+ pot).

turn is Kd.  It checks around,  and it doesnt look like anyone likes the K, but I decide to go the low variance route and check.  It could be a mistake not betting $75 there. But I dont think im getting another bigger flush draw to fold.

River comes the Td.  It again checks around to me.  I decide to bet out $40 to see if I can get a rando J to fold (a K obviously isnt folding).

It folds all the way around to the CO....  who suddenly makes it $110

I am beyond confused at that point. 

This guy has been raising with draws, and 2nd pairs.  I know this guy enough to know that if he had a K or J, he would have raised/ lead out on the flop or turn. hell if he had any A or QT hes betting the turn. 

If he had 2 pair on the flop, hes raising because hes steaming and scared of the obvious draw.  Same goes for all sets.

And with me being the last to act on a checked around river board, what hand could he possibly have that is strong enough to be the CO and check with only 1 tighter player left to act in the whole hand, but still raise when that player bets?

His story doesnt make sense right?

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While it doesn’t make sense as a strong hand, it may be a good enough bluff catcher to push back with you on. He now knows everyone else is out and your play looks exactly like a button bluff.

 

Also, I’m folding T3s on the button pre unless I’m first to act, in which case I’m raising to steal blinds. There’s pretty much no flop I’m happy seeing other than quads. So you limped in... when SB slaps you into reality, you had a second chance to get away, and, no, $13 to win $90 is not good odds to flop quads.

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Probably has 6-10 or 5-10.


I’d question why anyone would limp and then call $13 pre w T6 or T5, by here we are

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If he was tilting. A lot of these $1/$2 players are terrible.

A few weeks ago I was playing at one of the better card houses here. Guy calls from the BB in a limped pot with AA. At least six players. Flop was K-10-10. He checks, there's a bet, a call, and BB puts in a huge raise. Gets one caller. Shoves the turn after a brick and the other guy calls with like K-3.

 

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33 minutes ago, Bookman said:

Probably has 6-10 or 5-10.

I honestly didnt take much time.  figured there is no way he had T5-T6, he was tilting so bad he would have absolutely bet the river if he had that. 

I read it (correctly as it turns out) that he was trying to make a move because everyone else was out.    I called He announced he had a 6  and mucked when he saw the T3.

 

Lurch, I dont disagree with the statement about it being a trash hand but Bookman isnt kidding about these cardhouses in Texas where the folks just. wont. fold. preflop.   They HAVE to see the flop.  and raising  is reasonable, but all you do more often is bloat the pot with a weaker hand.  

On Sunday  I had a pot go  UTG $15, 4 callers and Im in SB with AA.   I made it $75 with only $131 behind.   everyone called including the BB.    there is no fucking flop on the planet that I am not shoving the rest of the $131 in there first to act. They KNOW that and they still call. 

Flop came out KQx and I just shoved the $131 in there.    folds to the CO who called with K2o.   Aces held up. 

Edited by AUS-97HORN

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The wider they are, the tighter we should be. Playing 6 way pots is never going to be long term +ev.

I know it sounds crazy, but I think we go higher than pot w AA when UTG opens 7BBs and gets 4 callers. He has to call you and now everyone behind thinks they are getting good odds. I probably go $120 or just go ahead and jam. Worst case, you net $75. Quite often you’ll get an AK or TT/99 calling thinking you’re just trying to steal w 55, etc.

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On 2/11/2020 at 7:03 PM, Lurch said:

Quite often you’ll get an AK or TT/99 calling thinking you’re just trying to steal w 55, etc.

At SA Card House, I saw 8-9 of spades call A-A in a preflop all-in because "that's my favorite hand."

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KK<99 all in PF and flopped set of 10s loses to flopped set of Qs all in on turn. One shouldnt play poker on Valentine’s Day (although wife and older daughter are out of town for college trip, so I’m ok on that end). 

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Deep in tourney. 3000/5000/5000. Guy loses all but 1k chip. Next hand UTG he shoves blind.

Folds to BTN who raises everyone else out. They flip to both show AA and the dude has to chop. That’s some cold shit

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$350 Tourney. 222 entries. Pays 28. 35 remain. I have 166k. Avg is 155k.

3/6/6k blinds

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151k to 4/8/8k. 29 remain. Need to lose one to lock up a smoooth $111 profit. $15,800 up top

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Big news for our N Texas brethren 
 



Seems like word of mouth is spreading quickly on this. I would expect them to be busy when they get going.

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$1/$2 game, had been aggressive but the aggressive players left. At this point it was loose/passive.

Four limpers to me in the cutoff, I have A-A. Raise to $16. Five callers, but button folds.

Flop is 9-K-K. Checks to me, I check.

Turn is A. Checks to me, I bet $55, and everyone folds.

Should I have raised preflop more? Should I have bet $30 on the turn? I was hoping someone had a K.

 

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mpu


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