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Neonmoon

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Neonmoon last won the day on May 22 2021

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  1. Biden got out of Afghanistan and passed an infrastructure bill. Two things Trump and Republicans were were wildly in favor of before Biden was elected. Now he’s a failure for it. The Aristocrats
  2. Okay, so let's discuss the Peter Attia article since both of you are relying on that as your basis for being anti-mandate. First let's start out with Attia's points, if I am wrong summing it up, let me know He agrees that the relative risk reduction (RRR) of death is between 84% and 88%, regardless of age, and overall, the risk of death among people who were vaccinated was infinitesimal. So that's good. Vaccines are good. So his argument against is 1. Vaccines do not provide complete protection to the vaccinated. They are not 100% effective at preventing infection, hospitalization, and death. In fact, although vaccines significantly reduce risk of detectable infection in the few months after vaccination, this protection drops precipitously once circulating antibodies decline, though protection against severe infections and death persists. Now, we have Novel therapeutics, fluvoxamine, and sophisticated critical care. 2. Omnicron is less virulent. 3. Natural Immunity. The null hypothesis around this point, at the outset, should be that natural immunity is indeed as good as vaccine immunity, pending data to prove that assumption false. 4. Vaccines don't prevent transmission. It seems that they only slightly reduce the risk of transmission, and that vaccinated and unvaccinated persons with detectable infection have the same viral loads, despite the reduction in disease severity for the former group. Using a metric called the secondary attack rate (SAR), it’s possible to look at infection rates in household contacts stratified by contact vaccination status and index case vaccination status, and based on such analysis, it seems that vaccination only slightly prevents transmission. Vaccination does not reduce the peak viral load in the infected (though it does appear to reduce the duration of viral shedding, which may translate to the reduction in SAR). He sums his position up like this We have a virus that is far less lethal than the one that started the pandemic two years ago. We have very effective vaccines that reduce the severity of illness and death by about 90%. We have ample treatments to further reduce severity of illness in death (in vaccinated and unvaccinated alike) by another 90% or so. We have better methods of providing in-hospital care to the infected. For all their benefits, vaccines are not very effective at preventing transmission. The impact of vaccine mandates An unvaccinated person cannot board a plane or a train, let alone go into a restaurant, gym, or skating rink. A Canadian friend of mine, this week, was prohibited from seeing a medical doctor for a corneal abrasion because the doctor refused to see unvaccinated patients. What they are not, however, is a monolithic tool to be used as a sword against our citizens, rather than a shield against a virus. What is the scientific evidence to support vaccine mandates today? If this were really about science, why would we not allow previous infection, which confers all the benefits of vaccination, if not more, the same rights? My rebuttal 1. Vaccines do not provide complete protection to the vaccinated - Vaccines significantly protect against sever infection, hospitalization and death. Seat belts don't protect you 100% but we mandate those. 2. Omnicron is less virulent - Delta is very deadly. We can't make decisions based on best case scenario variants. What if another variant develops that is deadlier than Delta? 850,000 people have died in the US. We mandate vaccinations against Rubella. 1,000 pregnant women lost their babies, 2,100 newborns died, and 20,000 babies were born with congenital rubella syndrome. Yet we still require it even though most people won't be affected. We have a long history of taking harmless vaccines so other people don't die. Just because you don't give a shit about X number of people dying, doesn't mean it's okay. 3. Natural Immunity. Vaccines work better than natural immunity because there is no risk associated with dying to obtain a vaccine as opposed to natural immunity. Just because you want to take your chances with the virus doesn't mean that's a good idea, especially when it will negatively impact others. The more people that are vaccinated, the less chance the virus has to spread and infect others. 4. Vaccines don't prevent transmission. No shit. But as he says, they do "slightly reduce the risk of transmission. Vaccination does not reduce the peak viral load in the infected (though it does appear to reduce the duration of viral shedding, which may translate to the reduction in SAR)." They reduce transmission 5. I will add Legal - Vaccine mandates are legal. See Jacobson v Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905) 6. Impact of Mandates - There is no impact other than learning how selfish people are. It is a choice. People are choosing to lose their job, lose access to sports, theatre, etc. People are choosing to lose access to the public because they are too fucking selfish to take a harmless vaccine to protect the public. Fuck them. 7. What is the scientific evidence to support vaccine mandates today? - He already listed all the scientific evidence to support that getting vaccinated is better than not being vaccinated. He ignores all the data on previous deaths. He makes the assumption that only less virulent variants will remain. He admits vaccines reduce transmission. 8. If this were really about science, why would we not allow previous infection, which confers all the benefits of vaccination, if not more, the same rights? - This one is bit more complicated as the science backs previous infection providing good immunity. So I would agree they should be given the same rights as vaccinated. The problem with this is two-fold. Logistics and Policy. Logistically, we would require everyone have a vaccine pass (which still seems to be a bugaboo with the same people advocating for anit-mandates), and the vaccine pass would have to be updated with a confirmed infection test, and then given a time period of how long that immunity lasts. Of course vaccinated immunity has scientifically been proved to last longer than natural immunity. So we would need to update each vaccines pass with the require timelines. Policy, it would send the wrong message. If you want to take your chances with the virus, then go for it.
  3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hulu_original_programming https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Netflix_original_programming Look at both lists. Would anyone honestly choose Hulu original over Netflix right now if they only pick one?
  4. Biggest lies Republicans believe because fairytales are easier to believe than the truth 1. Tax cuts create more jobs 2. Democrats increase the deficit 3. Immigrants are taking your jobs 4. Family values are important to us. 5. I’m not racist, I believe in election integrity
  5. Post fringe waco article. Get called out on it. Cry about it. Why are you ant-vaccine mandate? Is it just Covid or does this include all vaccines? Do you think every person should be able to decide which vaccines are necessary and which ones are not?
  6. I like the show, but yeah, the lead actor has the charisma of a paper towel.
  7. What Trump doesn’t understand is his lawyers are either corrupt or morons, but probably both. Just because you have Giuliani’s insane ass with you, it doesn’t mean what you did wasn’t illegal. Oh, everything I said was cool, I had a lawyer there. Here is the transcript. It’s so obviously illegal it’s sad https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/highlights-of-trump-s-call-with-the-georgia-secretary-of-state-1/b67c0d9dbde1a697/full.pdf
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