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Posted
7 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

When I was doing all of the research, the gorilla permits were a lot more expensive in Rwanda.  Uganda is the budget option, if you will, or if you are really adventurous, you can see them in DRC as well, but that is a level of sketchiness that would never fly with the wife so I didn’t bother looking into it beyond the fact that I know you can see them there.

I think it's $800 per person in Uganda and $1500 pp in Rwanda. 

I think you almost have to buy 2 days of permits- it would suck to fly all the way down there and not see any gorillas on your trek, then fly all the way back.  So, depending on how many people are in your group, the price difference could add up.  One good thing about Rwanda is you can just order the permit off a website from the gov't.  In Uganda, it seems a little sketchier.  I think you basically have to go through a third party (or if there's a way to book directly, i didn't see it). 

In Uganda, they also have habituation permits ($1500, iirc - but more time with the gorillas), where you trek to gorillas who aren't fully habituated yet.  Sounds great on paper, but based on the reviews, it sounds like the unhabituated gorillas most often just go deeper into the forest when they see you, so most ppl just end up hiking through the forest a lot chasing the unhabituated gorillas.  as a result, you get to spend less time actually near the unhabituated gorillas.  Unhabituated gorillas could be spectacular and you get test charged and live to tell about it.  Or you could spend 10 hours slogging through rainforest to get 8 glimpses at a gorilla from afar.  

When I was looking through the reviews, people who did the experience in Uganda consistently raved about it.  Comparatively, the people who saw the gorillas in Rwanda were a lot less effusive in their reviews (on average--could be wrong, but that was my definite impression).

I think area near the rainforest is a little more spectacular/exotic in Uganda, and they do a better job of getting people to the gorillas.  Like the overall experience that day seems more authentic.  Idk.  In Rwanda, each morning they pool every park tourist for the day in one spot, and from the reviews, it seems like the morning gathering is disorganized/feels like waiting around at disneyland/kills the vibe.   I got the impression that Rwanda is less of an experience (the difficulty of getting to the forest in Uganda is part of what makes the entire experience).  It kinda felt from the reviews like Uganda was more remote/wild/authentic and Rwanda feels more like a conveyor belt out to the gorillas.  Idk.  Just my impression. 

idk, after all my research, i thought uganda sounded better, but it wouldn't fit into our trip, because of the extra time needed to get from the int'l airport to bwindi.   so i was gonna go to rwanda, then decided to do this trip another year (had nothing to do with gorillas - we were gonna spend time in egypt to kill the jetlag and egypt just shut down the country's best tomb plus their national museum is basically temporarily closed). 

 

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Posted

This is on my Radar.  Likely focused on SA (Kruger, etc.), as I have lots of distant family there - grandfather left 6 siblings there when he hopped a boat for America at about age 19.  Many of their descendants later left themselves, but many remain, mostly in Capetown.  Will probably be me and my, at time of trip, 18-19 year old son.  We want to do it right, but not likely to the expense of Four Seasons and similar luxury.  Any suggestions on specific operators, lodges, etc. for the safari portion?

Posted
14 hours ago, Tonesky said:

This is on my Radar.  Likely focused on SA (Kruger, etc.), as I have lots of distant family there - grandfather left 6 siblings there when he hopped a boat for America at about age 19.  Many of their descendants later left themselves, but many remain, mostly in Capetown.  Will probably be me and my, at time of trip, 18-19 year old son.  We want to do it right, but not likely to the expense of Four Seasons and similar luxury.  Any suggestions on specific operators, lodges, etc. for the safari portion?

Particularly if you're doing South Africa, call Daisy du Plessis (https://www.rhinoafrica.com/en/about-us/meet-the-team/daisy-du-plessis/131).  She worked with us on our southern Africa stint and was a lifesaver when Covid shut down South Africa.  

As you can probably see from my initial post, I am not a big fan of travel agents.  I like doing my own research and booking my own shit directly.  But in Africa, there is still a strong culture of using travel agents.  Some lodges won't even let you book directly; they only deal with travel agents.  That's how I came to use Daisy--I really wanted the Thorntree River Lodge in Zambia, but I couldn't book with them directly.

By the way--I do strongly recommend taking a few days to see Victoria Falls.  It's amazing.  I was like "ok--it's just a waterfall."  Yeah; no.  It absolutely blew me away.  But beyond the Falls, staying at Thorntree was great.  You're right on the River, and you wake up to the sounds of the hippos snorting.  

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Posted
14 hours ago, Tonesky said:

This is on my Radar.  Likely focused on SA (Kruger, etc.), as I have lots of distant family there - grandfather left 6 siblings there when he hopped a boat for America at about age 19.  Many of their descendants later left themselves, but many remain, mostly in Capetown.  Will probably be me and my, at time of trip, 18-19 year old son.  We want to do it right, but not likely to the expense of Four Seasons and similar luxury.  Any suggestions on specific operators, lodges, etc. for the safari portion?

I have been to Kruger Park once and Pilansburg Park numerous times. Pilansburg is not too far from Jo’burg.  I highly recommend Pilansburg. I have seen 4 of the Big 5 there. The leopard eludes me so far. Witnessed a lion chasing wildebeest which was cool but the lion was not successful after a short chase. I have stayed at multiple lodges and have enjoyed them all.

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Posted

How timely, we just ironed out a plan for South Africa/Botswana next summer. It is going to be a family trip with two kids 14/11. 3 different lodges for 3 nights each + 2 nights to see Victoria Falls + 3 nights in Cape Town to end the trip.

Super fucking excited about this one and now just keeping my fingers crossed nothing disrupts it before next year.  

We did work with an agent, I just didn’t feel comfortable with Africa and these locations without one. Maybe after I go I would think different for the next time (or not). 

Posted (edited)

Did our trip without an agent and it was great.  We landed in J'burg and drove to Kruger for four days, flew into Port Elizabeth and then stayed in Addo for a couple of nights and then drove down the garden route and stayed at thunder river and then down to Bontebok and ended at boulders beach/Cape Town.  Trip was amazing.  Saw everything--miles and miles of cape buffalo, totally surrounded at one point and just turned the car off and sat, a dozen rhino's with babies, leopard, lions, cheetahs, porcupine, dwarf mongoose, wild dogs, caracal, herds of elephants, secretary birds, kudu, hippos, spotted eagle owl, baboons, wildebeest, everything, and mostly, it was just my wife and I.  I would say this--do not drive fast.  So much can be seen in the rear view mirror or after other cars pass, let them.  Drive slow and when you get to rest stops, look at the boards and see what's been spotted in the area.  They won't include rhino's but take a walking or driving tour and you're bound to see several.  These are in the parks of course, but you can see a lot along the road too.  We saw Nyala by a regular road.  

At Kruger, went to bed while lions and cape buffalo went at it for hours.  In the morning there was a fresh buffalo kill.  Also, bush babies and fruit bats are really loud at night, which some of the camps have. Others have honey badgers and warthogs. 

SANPARKS.org

forums. check out KNP Activities & Sightings thread, such as Lake Panic.

Next time, we'll do the falls and Kgalagadi park-but we spread out our time knowing we'd go back.  

These are all parks you could die in, make no mistake. Elephants toss cars as do the cape buffalo. They're parks where the animals roam free and you don't carry, which is fine.  I remember being on top of a hill overlooking a lake with signs that said you could exit at your own risk with an overlook.  I walked over and looked down at kudu carcasses littering the shore of the lake.  It was a killing zone when animals went down to drink.   

Edited by Mdhorn
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Posted
On 5/24/2025 at 10:39 AM, Ghost of LL said:

you wake up to the sounds of the hippos snorting.  

I can get that every morning without spending all that money. I love my wife, though. She makes great biscuits. 

Posted
15 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Did our trip without an agent and it was great.  We landed in J'burg and drove to Kruger for four days, flew into Port Elizabeth and then stayed in Addo for a couple of nights and then drove down the garden route and stayed at thunder river and then down to Bontebok and ended at boulders beach/Cape Town.  Trip was amazing.  Saw everything--miles and miles of cape buffalo, totally surrounded at one point and just turned the car off and sat, a dozen rhino's with babies, leopard, lions, cheetahs, porcupine, dwarf mongoose, wild dogs, caracal, herds of elephants, secretary birds, kudu, hippos, spotted eagle owl, baboons, wildebeest, everything, and mostly, it was just my wife and I.  I would say this--do not drive fast.  So much can be seen in the rear view mirror or after other cars pass, let them.  Drive slow and when you get to rest stops, look at the boards and see what's been spotted in the area.  They won't include rhino's but take a walking or driving tour and you're bound to see several.  These are in the parks of course, but you can see a lot along the road too.  We saw Nyala by a regular road.  

At Kruger, went to bed while lions and cape buffalo went at it for hours.  In the morning there was a fresh buffalo kill.  Also, bush babies and fruit bats are really loud at night, which some of the camps have. Others have honey badgers and warthogs. 

SANPARKS.org

forums. check out KNP Activities & Sightings thread, such as Lake Panic.

Next time, we'll do the falls and Kgalagadi park-but we spread out our time knowing we'd go back.  

These are all parks you could die in, make no mistake. Elephants toss cars as do the cape buffalo. They're parks where the animals roam free and you don't carry, which is fine.  I remember being on top of a hill overlooking a lake with signs that said you could exit at your own risk with an overlook.  I walked over and looked down at kudu carcasses littering the shore of the lake.  It was a killing zone when animals went down to drink.   

Sounds perfect.  I have been encouraged by some who have made multiple trips to skip a multi-day detour to Victoria Falls on a first (or even only) trip. 

Posted
15 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

These are all parks you could die in, make no mistake. Elephants toss cars as do the cape buffalo. They're parks where the animals roam free and you don't carry, which is fine.  I remember being on top of a hill overlooking a lake with signs that said you could exit at your own risk with an overlook.  I walked over and looked down at kudu carcasses littering the shore of the lake.  It was a killing zone when animals went down to drink.   

We did a "walking safari" in the Serengeti.  We didn't go really far from the lodge.  I honestly don't think we were much out of sight of the lodge the entire time.  But actually, that made it all the more terrifying.

We walked out with a guide and one Ranger with a rifle at the front and two Rangers with rifles at the back (one of whom was kind of always walking backwards).  We were told to walk single-file.  Along the way, we came across a herd of buffalo, and they started to get into defensive position.  That's when our guide said very calmly that we were going to change direction a little bit and to make sure you didn't look directly at the buffalo.  They'll fuck you up.

But the whole way, the floor of the Serengeti was covered in bones.  You couldn't walk more than a couple feet without walking over a bone from a large animal.  And generally, these were not peaceful deaths; buffalo don't die peacefully in their sleep in the Serengeti.  And again--we're within sight of the lodge almost the entire way.  It's every night--there is death and terror just steps from your very nice room at the Four Seasons.

Sleep tight.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

We did a "walking safari" in the Serengeti.  We didn't go really far from the lodge.  I honestly don't think we were much out of sight of the lodge the entire time.  But actually, that made it all the more terrifying.

We walked out with a guide and one Ranger with a rifle at the front and two Rangers with rifles at the back (one of whom was kind of always walking backwards).  We were told to walk single-file.  Along the way, we came across a herd of buffalo, and they started to get into defensive position.  That's when our guide said very calmly that we were going to change direction a little bit and to make sure you didn't look directly at the buffalo.  They'll fuck you up.

But the whole way, the floor of the Serengeti was covered in bones.  You couldn't walk more than a couple feet without walking over a bone from a large animal.  And generally, these were not peaceful deaths; buffalo don't die peacefully in their sleep in the Serengeti.  And again--we're within sight of the lodge almost the entire way.  It's every night--there is death and terror just steps from your very nice room at the Four Seasons.

Sleep tight.

That’s amazing. What’s really interesting is how blind I really am. There are two sizes for an animal—one when a person is in a vehicle and the other on foot and becomes so much larger. In separate occasions a warthog and an elephant were directly in front of me in the brush and I couldn’t see them. I took a pic so people could see how difficult it is to see. 

Edited by Mdhorn

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