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Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

So that's your take, positional value. So even you justifying Bruce as OLB/DE guy just shows how good Nobis was to be one of 3 taken number 1 overall. Position value has nothing to do with it. He was that good.

That is the NFL's take on positional value. I have no issues with Nobis. You are the only one making it an either/or thing between Nobis and Hampton but that is par for the course

Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

That is the NFL's take on positional value. I have no issues with Nobis. You are the only one making it an either/or thing between Nobis and Hampton but that is par for the course

in the 1960s 5 MLB were picked in the top 5 of the NFL draft. Going off memory, but I think the last ILB to go top 5 in the draft was Marvin Jones in 1993 (might have missed someone). Nobis was still great, but its clear the position was valued much greater in that era. I dont think anyone would argue that. I guess there is one. 

DraftHistory.com

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 11:41 AM, Codaxx said:

NFL just became a passing league. Defenses preferring to run more 2 high, it may be swinging back. Either way the difference between 1970s and 2020 is night and day. 

NFL became a passing league because over time they outlawed the head slap, chuck beyond five yards, etc., and defenses had to adapt. Still, I think the changes were good - go watch a game from the 70s on YouTube sometime, it’s like watching paint dry (and I’m 58)…

Posted
51 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

NFL became a passing league because over time they outlawed the head slap, chuck beyond five yards, etc., and defenses had to adapt. Still, I think the changes were good - go watch a game from the 70s on YouTube sometime, it’s like watching paint dry (and I’m 58)…

It was a bit more than the rule changes.  The west coast offenses came around.  And at the high school level in Texas, things changed significantly.  Pre-1990, there were few NFL QBs from Texas but now it’s a high percentage, maybe more than any other state.  It wasn’t because there weren’t athletes at QB in Texas.  It was the offensive systems, the coaching, the coaching mentality, limitations on summer programs, 7 on 7, etc.  People realized 3 yards and a cloud of dust was asinine.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

It was a bit more than the rule changes.  The west coast offenses came around.  And at the high school level in Texas, things changed significantly.  Pre-1990, there were few NFL QBs from Texas but now it’s a high percentage, maybe more than any other state.  It wasn’t because there weren’t athletes at QB in Texas.  It was the offensive systems, the coaching, the coaching mentality, limitations on summer programs, 7 on 7, etc.  People realized 3 yards and a cloud of dust was asinine.

What year (about) do you think that happened? The shit I listed above (along with offensive linemen being allowed to block with their hands outside their shoulders) happened in 1977/78….

Edited by Ignatius
Posted
43 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

What year (about) do you think that happened? The shit I listed above (along with offensive linemen being allowed to block with their hands outside their shoulders) happened in 1977/78….

That was about the time when Bill Walsh became known, but the rules you reference were less impactful to his offense than the traditional passing offenses of that time.

Obviously there’s been a continual evolution of the rules to make it an offensive oriented game.  But Walsh (maybe it was someone else that started, but he was the guy to my knowledge) was the one that made the passing game an extension of the run game, which would have made the head slap and more use of hands less impactful as the ball was out quicker and often shorter.

As for Texas high schools, in my experience and knowledge, it was the 90s that passing offenses became prevalent.  Prior to that it was pretty limited except for the Detmers and a few others.  Not really dual threat QBs yet.  Looks like 7 on 7 began in 1994 or so.  It’s not coincidental that there were few NFL QBs from Texas in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s.

 

Posted
13 hours ago, Had Enough said:

But Walsh (maybe it was someone else that started, but he was the guy to my knowledge) was the one that made the passing game an extension of the run game,

I think most consider the "West Coast Offense" as a Walsh invention.  Before him, Don Coryell was passing the crap out of the ball but it wasn't the same offense, even though it was called the same name.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think most consider the "West Coast Offense" as a Walsh invention.  Before him, Don Coryell was passing the crap out of the ball but it wasn't the same offense, even though it was called the same name.

Most of spreads concepts are derived from west coast offense. Obviously it’s changed over time 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
On 6/14/2025 at 9:11 PM, Had Enough said:

It was a bit more than the rule changes.  The west coast offenses came around.  And at the high school level in Texas, things changed significantly.  Pre-1990, there were few NFL QBs from Texas but now it’s a high percentage, maybe more than any other state.  It wasn’t because there weren’t athletes at QB in Texas.  It was the offensive systems, the coaching, the coaching mentality, limitations on summer programs, 7 on 7, etc.  People realized 3 yards and a cloud of dust was asinine.

I think when people talk about the "spread" offense they really don't understand there is the spread formation which goes back to Rusty Russell and Masonic Home High School in the 20's to the spread passing game.

As you point out, there were a number of changes that brought that about the development of the passing game in college,  big one being the narrowing of the hash marks.  I can't imagine trying to make the modern passing offenses work with those old hash marks. 

Someone has already mentioned Don Coryell and his impact on the West Coast passing game,  LaVell Edwards at BYU was another who used the short passing game instead of run game as well as BYU did some unique things in pass protection., Tiger Ellison is seen by some as the father of the run-n-shoot with his offenses in the 1960's in Ohio high school football of all places, and then a high school coach named Jack Neumeier in LA is recognized by some as the father of the modern spread passing offense.

Posted

The two earliest memories I have of college football on television are my Dad watching the Texas win over Arkansas in 1969 and then my Dad watching the Rose Bowl with Jim Plunkett.  

My Dad was from the midwest and always pulled for the Big 10 teams.  I can remember my Dad telling someone at our home to watch the game that Ohio State would overpower Stanford as west coast football wasn't tough enough against the more physical Ohio State game.

The Buckeyes did run for 300 yards, but the talk at the house was Stanford's high flying passing game and the connection between Plunkett and his favorite receiver Randy Vataha.

When I go back and look at the numbers for Plunkett,  a senior AA and Heisman winner,  they were impressive for then, but would be viewed as poor today.

He threw for 2,715 yards in 11 games, average  14.2 ypc, completed just over 53% of his attempts (threw it ~32 times a game) and had 18 td's and threw 18 interceptions.

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