
Brew
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Posts posted by Brew
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30 minutes ago, Ogie Ogilthorpe said:
Red tide keeping me off the water this weekend. Dead fish everywhere, 400 turtles cleaned off the beach. Whale shark even washed up. The worst was a baby manatee clinging to its dead mother.
It it is fucking brutal
Sitting on a Sanibel now and it’s a sad mess. In 20 years of coming down here, I haven’t seen anything like it. We tried walking the beach yesterday and it has improved, but the smell of death is still strong. The fisheries have taken a beating based on what I have seen on the beach and floating in the water the last few days. Ended up not doing any fishing because of it. Bought another house while here though, so hopefully it gets better.
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7 hours ago, JimmyJames said:
My point is related to the difference between the tax rate between capital gains versus regular income, so your argument about the mortgage interest deduction misses the mark. Of course that incitiveses it. That’s not the point. And it’s minimal compared to overall taxes, as our resident troll has pointed out.
Back to what I’m actually arguing, why should the federal government favor investment in capital gains over income derived from work? Why should Eric trump investment into his investment into a stock be taxed at a lower rate than a surgeon who performs heart surgery? Is his investment that much more valuable? 15 percent versus 40?
I answered and you responded to it in post #304. It has pinballed back and forth over the years but has generally been used to try and spur economic growth/investment/saving. I think the studies show little correlation between the rate and economic growth, but do show a higher rate of savings. I think there are other studies that show a lower capital gains tax being the sweet spot for total tax collections also. A higher capital gains tax results in less income subject to tax likely because of tax planning.
My comparison to interest deductions is relevant, the government is in the incentive business and uses the tax code to do it.
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There is some debate but most think the severity of it traces back to Lake O water releases and it keeping the water table nutrient rich. That combined with higher than normal water temps and too much rain is causing major problems. The lake and the water releases are causing problems up and down the coast at this point.
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On 7/31/2018 at 8:39 PM, Brew said:
Heading out to Sanibel tomorrow. Hopefully the red tide and shitty water don’t cancel my fishing plans. It’s looking pretty rough down there right now.
Welp, no fishing due to the red tide. It’s worse than I’ve ever seen it. It just smells like death everywhere with dead fish piled up on the beaches and floating in the water. It’s f-ing sad and hopefully this state gets it’s head out of it’s ass and votes for new leadership. I signed a contract on a house while there, so hopefully the last 20 years are more indicative of the future than the last couple of months.
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4 hours ago, 27-25 said:
I was under the impression that work was a good thing. Was I misinformed?
And I'm not arguing that the rates be the same. I am arguing that I see no rationale for widening the difference further. The rich were already getting richer. The endgame of widening income disparity will not end well for anyone, even the rich.
Your first statement is stupid just for the record and more hyperbole that goes nowhere other than inflaming one side or the other. The flip side of your argument is that without capital investment there would be no work for the worker bees to perform. Both sides of the aisle have placed a perceived value on that resulting in lower capital gains rates.
This whole us versus them mentality is tired at this point. I made my stance on the tax system clear in my post above. Go to a flat or tiered structure with no deductions so everyone pays something and the system can’t be gamed. However, there will still be rich/poor and employee/employer. The tax structure has jack shit to do with income disparity and those that lash out at it with that mentality are just trying to find an argument.
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4 hours ago, sidis said:
specifically, are you talking about pass-through entities as to whether or not they qualify for the reduced tax rate based on being a services company? As in, if you are a 100% services company like a doctor's office or consulting group, one doesn't qualify for the reduced rate and are stuck with the old rate? or something more specific?
That is one issue although it isn’t a rate issue. You get a 20% deduction on oss through entities with service providers having a phase out on that 20% deduction. Most service providers that phase out rent buildings from partnerships they own separately, what income do you have to take into account under that scenario? Are there going to be reasonable rent adjustments for those like us that pay rent at a significant premium to lower self employment tax. Another is related to the issues around reasonable comp in those entities. There has been some movement this week, but there is still a lot that is vague at best.
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8 hours ago, JimmyJames said:
So the government picks the winners. Of course investment of capital into business is a good thing. So is working to earn a paycheck and provide a service. Which one is better?
No, the government picks what to incentivize just like they incentivize home ownership over renting, just like they incentivize giving to charities, just like they incentivize those that produce a tangible good over those that provide a service, just like they incentivize being a landlord, just like they incentivize going to college, just like they incentivize retirement investing for lower income people which I don’t qualify for, etc.
They incentivize the investment of cash into business interests over investing the cash in your local banks savings account and paying ordinary rates on the interest. Low/moderate income people pay zero capital gains tax so they have an even bigger incentive although most lack the means. I’m not saying it is right or wrong, but there is a reason and you may not agree with it. There are plenty of components that people don’t agree with and it’s usually the ones they aren’t getting.
You want to complain about social engineering, explain the child tax credit, the earned income credit, etc. to me. It’s a two way street and everyone in the system is getting some benefit. My vote is to scrap it all and go to a tiered system with no adjustments.
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My assumption is because both parties see an investment of capital into business as a good thing and so they treat the return of capital as unearned income with a different rate just the same as they do with qualified dividends.
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11 hours ago, sidis said:
brew, thanks for posting as you have a uniquely insightful perspective on this particular topic being a tax accountant. I obviously have a lot of opinions regarding the overall micro, macro, and political economic implications of the law but am curious about the above. Would you say the ambiguity is largely centered on business, personal, or both. Can you give some of the more concerning exemplars of what you are talking about?
It is centered on business income. The pass through income deduction is a cluster fuck with no clarification provided in the tax law. The IRS and preparers are in a standoff at this point to see who blinks first. The elimination of entertainment deductions is going to be a cluster as well.
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50 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:
I knew that already and the top 1 percent get to pay far less on their capital gains than the rest of the great unwashed who don’t own shit for stocks and it doesn’t count towards their income tax rate bracket. Do you know that and are failing to mention it intentionally?
This makes zero sense. The top 1% pay 23.8% flat rate on capital gains. How would that be less than your great unwashed masses when that effective rate is equivalent to a pretty high taxable income? Again, $64k for a family of 4 before they pay $1 in tax.
You two can argue all you want, but you both suck with facts and unneeded hyperbole.
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Just finished the season and I didn’t find it near as bad as some of the comments mentioned. I still come back to my thoughts on EMCC, it takes a different kind of coach to be successful at one of these programs. You have a bunch of kids that have been told they are the greatest all their lives and they will play in the NFL, that couldn’t make it at a D1 because of disciplinary issues generally. There are grade issues as well, but I have a hard time believing that the grades wouldn’t work themselves out for the right kid. Now they are at their last stop where they either turn it around or they go back home, so it takes a different mindset to deal with it.
JB goes to the complete opposite end of the spectrum than Buddy on trying to be relatable and at times it’s way over the top. However, he’s a shitty X’s and O’s coach which wasn’t the case at EMCC. There were numerous times that you just had to shake your head at the play calling and lack of communication in the offense. We are only seeing a couple of minutes from each game though so editing can drive the narrative any way it wants.
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A family of four under the new plan will pay no income tax on roughly the first $64k in income. Under the old plan they would have paid income tax at that income level. This narrative that there was no benefit at lower income levels is tired.
The whole plan is a shit show and for those not in the business of dealing with it you don’t know the half of it. There are significant chunks of the legislation that there is still no guidance out on because no one knows how to deal with it. It was written so vague that the IRS and tax preparers are staring at each other waiting to see who makes the first move and we are going to end up with tax courts having to make legislative decisions to set policy.
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15 hours ago, JimmyJames said:
Also you once again ignore state and local taxes. You internet fraud troll.
I’m not in any way supporting the other guy, but SALT taxes are going to be more heavily biased towards the top percentage as well in total although sales tax will be biased towards the lower income as a percentage of income. The totals will still be heavily skewed to the higher income people though.
Also, your comment on corporate rates being a low percentage is off base. In 2015 the rates were much higher for corporate than now of course. The reason the percentage is so low is because the vast majority of business entities are set up as pass through entities. Additionally the largest corporations are headquartered overseas to avoid the corporate tax
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Heading out to Sanibel tomorrow. Hopefully the red tide and shitty water don’t cancel my fishing plans. It’s looking pretty rough down there right now.
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It’s not my thing either, but my wife and kids are all about it. However, they are also Disney/animated fans. We own every movie, they go see every movie in the theater, etc. We also didn’t take them until they were a little older (maybe 7 and 10) so they had it built up in their heads for years and were all in. By Fall Break we will have been to DL, WDW, and both Universals in 10 months (been to WDW a couple of other times in the last 2.5 years), so i’ve told them they are on their own from here on out. I did my part.
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39 minutes ago, txhorns said:
So you have no problem with what Osuna did because he is a good closer?
Allegedly did. Numbers trump most everything in the sports world. If Altuve beat his wife/girlfriend this weekend, he’s not getting cut Monday.
It is a little bit odd that with the issues they have had in the minor leagues, the zero tolerance stance of the organization, and how vocal Verlander and others have been that they would go this route. It is the textbook definition of hypocritical.
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People losing the SALT deduction aren’t necessarily seeing an increase in taxes. That is part of the reason for the drop in rates, to offset the drop in deductions.
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5 hours ago, zork said:
If they call it a charitable deduction what is to stop people from deciding not to pay to that particular charity on any given year, like all years? What is to stop the IRS from not allowing that as a charitable deduction when it could be easily proven that X person chose to deduct Y SALT taxes in years previous at the same locations? Maybe the state could say that going forward any new purchases will have their SALT be considered charitable but then the rules for charity are typically not mandatory.
The avoidance game doesn't seem like it will work but what are the tax and legal opinions? @Brew @TwiceHorn etc
I don’t see it ever holding up. The states are posturing to try and get new tax legislation passed. There are a number of “clarification” bills out there and they want SALT changes added to the list.
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Based on the wait times and the sheer number of people in that area, it’s hard to call it a waste of resources right now. However, it will be interesting to see if it holds up to the passage of time though.
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There are plenty of better places for rides (although there are a few decent ones at every park), Disney is primarily about Disney.
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1 hour ago, troph said:
Stupid new boat overheated and we had to tow back in. The purpose of a warranty is to not need it. I miss my colbalt. Girlfriend seems unfazed, “don’t care, we surfed” she keeps repeating. 😕
The joys of boat ownership.
We’ve been working on getting my girls and nephews up on all the toys over the last couple of weeks. Both girls are now up on the wakeboard and my nephews are working on surface tricks on the skate. We ran a solid 5 hours yesterday just shutting down a couple of times to let them all swim. I’m pulling for another economic downturn at this point to run all the idiot boat owners off the water. I thought we might get hit a couple different times yesterday trying to block the kids when they fell. We had them cutting across the wake behind riders, running parallel to us less than a ropes length away, cutting across in front of us while we were pulling riders, and all the other stuff most boat owners know better than to do. I’ve always run the opposite side of the lake from someone else pulling and will wait on boats to clear out of the way before going if it’s too busy.
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Baby Pompano are going to be solid silver whereas pinfish are going to have the stripes even in the juvenile stages and also a different fin structure. Pinfish are also going to be more prevalent along grassy areas, piers, and other structures.
I have very rarely run into FWC officers along the beach in Florida, but there are some pretty hefty fines for undersized Pompano if one shows up. If you aren’t 100% sure on what you have and the size requirements, your best bet is to throw it back.
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19 minutes ago, Pancho Negro said:
Not sure which thread this belongs in but damn
That whole thing is fucked up, but did it not occur to one of the adults to get the kid under control and take him inside?
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I’m pretty sure I’ve seen how this story ends in the news just a few months back. No experience, check. Cheap sail boat, check. Going to sail away to the Caribbean, check. Are you broke and do you have a girl and a dog going with you by chance?
2018 NFL offseason thread
in Football
Posted
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/04/ray-lewis-hall-fame-weekend-atlanta-murders
Pretty good read by Klemko on his opinion on the NFL sheltering Lewis and others from answering questions relevant to anything.