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Catch-all thread for discussions around our personal development of music. Topics to include:

The Journey - our backstories, goals, plans, progress and accomplishments

Home Studios - building out our rooms and studio technology

Developing Playing & Singing Skills - recommendations and progress around learning to play and sing

Theory & Songwriting - song structure, chords/progression, techniques, lyrics

Recording, Mixing & Production - tools, technique, best practices, mastering

Distribution - posting, sharing, networking

  • Author

Recently turned 50 and saw our youngest graduate, soon to leave us empty nesters. Buying a new home with ample space in what will be my home office to also pursue creating my own music. My goal is to be regularly writing and producing songs, end to end, by the end of 2026. Purely for me. Likely no one else will ever hear it and I'm completely fine with that. I just want to commit myself to this as an artistic pursuit.

A drummer since elementary school, I'm adequate with all things percussion. I have a nice Roland VDrum kit but it's collected a fair bit of dust the last few years. I took piano lessons a few years during school, too, but mostly used that to improve my xylophone/marimba comfort. I have a few years of high school music theory under my belt, and a nice guitar and bass but have never really invested the time into developing those skills.

We'll move into our home at the end of the month. February will mostly be about getting everything set up. I'll likely have lots of questions for everyone then about the hardware I'll need for getting my kit integrated into my macbook via midi, an audio interface and a mic. I'll also probably invest in Musora for drumeo, guitar, bass and singing lessons. They've got a deal now that includes a piano. I'l either do that or Ill need to buy one of those, too.

Looking forward to hearing what stage everyone else is at in their journey!

Looking forward to the discussion, will post more later.

Awesome stuff man. Right off the bat, the important part is you are creating something, anything. There's a core group of guys here doing the same, at a whole range of levels. And some real talent.

I think I have talked about it previously, but my background in music is roughly this. My Dad was a touring bass player when I was born, and ended up going back to school and becoming a broadcast engineer, so I had a lot of exposure then. Started on saxophone in 4th grade, and got guitar that year as well. School band, orchestra, music classes yada yada through high school. Didn't start really getting serious on guitar until junior high, but then that was my main instrument till the present. Ironically, I'm a lot more talented at sax than guitar. Played in original bands, cut a few LP's and EP's in local studios, stuff like that.

Started doing audio engineering freelance in early 00's. Mostly just do my band these days because of time constraints, though I was on the verge of opening a studio year before last until the fucking land deal fell through. Still salty. But on the lookout for property that would suit at all times!

  • Author

Side goal: understand why Rick Beato gets so excited about sus7

  • Author

Thoughts on this deal?

Musora
No image preview

Piano Bundle

Musora

Note: ā€œPlus you’ll get access to everything else inside Musora (Drumeo, Singeo, Guitareo)’

Edited by Lurch

So I played in bands in high school and was a house producer for Suge Knight’s ā€œFunky Enough Recordsā€ in Los Angeles in 1989. I basically made all the tracks for the label’s rappers to rap over and shepherded sessions at LA Air and other studios for the label’s acts. I had no clue what I was doing, but I had a home recording set up, a dj setup, was a multi instrumentalist and had connections to one of Suge’s co-owners, The D.O.C. from Dallas. It ended poorly in events best described over multiple beers, but suffice to say, it was my ā€œAlmost Famousā€ moment. Kept writing and playing before taking a 10 year hiatus when my kids arrived on scene. When kids got older and more interested in friends, I picked it back up and have been building up a solid home recording studio since then while recording and releasing mostly instrumentals — mostly solo but some collaborations. In the past few years I’ve gotten back into performing live and that’s my current focus.

IMG_2365.jpeg

I have a 12’ x 12’ shed that is my office/music making space. That space constraint affects all my decision making. What is the best sound I can get in this tiny box? Often it’s using newer technologies to offset the limitations of this space. For instance, I don’t own a guitar amp, I use amp and cab modelling to emulate amps. A good pair of speakers for mixing are not worth their cost in dollars or space in this room, so I use a good set of headphones and a software plugin to emulate a professional mixing environment over those headphones.

If you want a home recording set up in a small footprint using newish techs to offset your room limitations, I probably have some experiences that can help avoid headaches and maybe save you some money going down dead ends.

26 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Thoughts on this deal?

Musora
No image preview

Piano Bundle

Musora

Note: ā€œPlus you’ll get access to everything else inside Musora (Drumeo, Singeo, Guitareo)’

So no idea about that specifically, but the minimal things you need for a home recording/music making space are:

  1. An instrument (includes your voice) and the ability to operate it

  2. A computer

  3. DAW software to record with in your computer (this is your mixing board and tape recorder in software form)

  4. Hardware to get your sounds into the computer. At least an audio interface, but also a mic if you want to capture vocals or the sound from a guitar amp.

  5. Something to allow you to listen to your work while writing/arranging, tracking/recording and mixing/mastering. Monitors and/or headphones

That package looks aimed at solving the first of those points. My initial home studio after getting back into music was simply:

  1. An electric guitar my brother gave me

  2. Mac book pro that I already owned

  3. GarageBand as a DAW. Free install for Macs.

  4. A crappy Behringer uphoria audio interface that cost < $100

  5. Some crappy Mackie powered monitors that cost < $150.

With that I recorded and released my first track since the early 90s. It was objectively shitty, but that’s all it took to start making, recording and releasing my own music and get hooked again on the process. GarageBand comes with a lot of stock guitar amp and pedal emulations and I just used them.

13 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Recommend? Scarlett Solo or one of the Studio models? Perhaps a bundle w mic?

https://a.co/d/61Hr1pG

Focusrite Scarlett is a good entry level interface that will serve you well as you get into it. You might outgrow it, but starting out, you don’t want to invest a ton as you figure out what directions you want to go. To that end, I’d recommend buying used gear at a used price that you can resell later at a similar used price if you ever outgrow it. Buying new, you will almost always take a significant loss on resale.

  • Author

I have this 15 year old PA system that I used for an outdoor theater setup many years ago. Is it too powerful to use as monitors?

Guitar Center
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B-52 Matrix-2000 Value Package | Guitar Center

Shop for the B-52 Matrix-2000 Value Package in and receive free shipping and guaranteed lowest price.
42 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Recommend? Scarlett Solo or one of the Studio models? Perhaps a bundle w mic?

https://a.co/d/61Hr1pG

The Scarlett stuff is fantastic, can't recommend highly enough for starting out. I actually have a Solo I keep around for my laptop and a 8i6 in my office. In fact if you want to try the Solo I can send you this one.

I am setup kinda similar to GoredHo in so far as I track at a warehouse, though I mix at home. I have to track a whole ass band, so it's a lot of inputs and space. At home I use an RME Babyface for an interface, which is a small desktop unit. It's nice but not cheap. I'd recommend a Focusrite or UA box for starting.

7 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I have this 15 year old PA system that I used for an outdoor theater setup many years ago. Is it too powerful to use as monitors?

Guitar Center
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B-52 Matrix-2000 Value Package | Guitar Center

Shop for the B-52 Matrix-2000 Value Package in and receive free shipping and guaranteed lowest price.

Please do not. Thanks

I've downsized from a full studio to a bedroom and I use a Scarlett. The quality of sound coming out of that box will have far more to do with the skills going into the box than the hardware itself, and yes I'm talking about pure musical talent.

@Paul Wesley probably has more to say than just about anyone on surly in terms of true studio experience + musical chops. Personally, I am fascinated with the science of sound as well as the art of songwriting. Not much else. I don't have any need to be a rippin' guitar player. I did my graduate work in acoustics at UT, got my masters and bailed on my PhD after finishing all the coursework but decided an income was more interesting than writing a dissertation. I kinda regret that, but I do know acoustics. I had my moments as a legit player -- full ride to Michigan on French horn that I turned down -- I just never wanted the struggle.

So, I'm down to talk acoustics, basic theory, songwriting, the recording process (which for me stops short of mixing, I'm just not that good at it).

Edited by jimmyjazz

  • Author

God damn we got some dudes in here! Will be fun

  • Author

I’ve got this front upstairs corner bedroom (11x15’) to build into. Guessing I’m going to want to put some acoustic panels up to help block sound into and out of the rest of the house. What have you done JJ?

IMG_0053.jpeg

Edited by Lurch

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

So I played in bands in high school and was a house producer for Suge Knight’s ā€œFunky Enough Recordsā€ in Los Angeles in 1989. I basically made all the tracks for the label’s rappers to rap over and shepherded sessions at LA Air and other studios for the label’s acts. I had no clue what I was doing, but I had a home recording set up, a dj setup, was a multi instrumentalist and had connections to one of Suge’s co-owners, The D.O.C. from Dallas. It ended poorly in events best described over multiple beers, but suffice to say, it was my ā€œAlmost Famousā€ moment. Kept writing and playing before taking a 10 year hiatus when my kids arrived on scene. When kids got older and more interested in friends, I picked it back up and have been building up a solid home recording studio since then while recording and releasing mostly instrumentals — mostly solo but some collaborations. In the past few years I’ve gotten back into performing live and that’s my current focus.

IMG_2365.jpeg

I have a 12’ x 12’ shed that is my office/music making space. That space constraint affects all my decision making. What is the best sound I can get in this tiny box? Often it’s using newer technologies to offset the limitations of this space. For instance, I don’t own a guitar amp, I use amp and cab modelling to emulate amps. A good pair of speakers for mixing are not worth their cost in dollars or space in this room, so I use a good set of headphones and a software plugin to emulate a professional mixing environment over those headphones.

If you want a home recording set up in a small footprint using newish techs to offset your room limitations, I probably have some experiences that can help avoid headaches and maybe save you some money going down dead ends.

Looks like the Knutsen place.

16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The quality of sound coming out of that box will have far more to do with the skills going into the box than the hardware itself, and yes I'm talking about pure musical talent.

If I can give one hard earned piece of advice to anyone starting out, is that it's 90% performance. That means everything before the microphone, from practice, to writing to arrangement (big one) to pre production to playing. A lesson I've learned too many times to count.

I mean, I love gear. Loooove it. But its just the icing on the cake

4 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I’ve got this front upstairs corner bedroom (11x15’) to build into. Guessing I’m going to want to put some acoustic panels up to help block sound into and out of the rest of the house. What have you done JJ?

IMG_0053.jpeg

So soundproofing is a whole long thing. Acoustic panels will tune the frequency response of the room, but stopping sound leaving is a different thing.

3 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I’ve got this front upstairs corner bedroom (11x15’) to build into. Guessing I’m going to want to put some acoustic panels up to help block sound into and out of the rest of the house. What have you done JJ?

First rule of blocking sound: you need mass. If you're considering anything approaching normal rock sound levels, your whole house is gonna hear it as well as your closer neighbords. The solution is costly -- either float a second interior room that is decoupled from the outer walls, or (at a bare minimum) consider lead sheet hung in the exterior walls.

Edited by jimmyjazz

  • Author

Vdrums aren’t too loud and I’m guessing bass and guitar don’t need to be loud for recording, so I don’t need too much I think

13 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

First rule of blocking sound: you need mass. If you're considering anything approaching normal rock sound levels, your whole house is gonna hear it as well as your closer neighbords. The solution is costly -- either float a second interior room that is decoupled from the outer walls, or (at a bare minimum) consider lead sheet hung in the exterior walls.

You forgot the free solution. "Fuck it, lets blast"

7 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Vdrums aren’t too loud and I’m guessing bass and guitar don’t need to be loud for recording, so I don’t need too much I think

The answer is always "depends". I would DI the bass regardless as you can always reamp it if you really wanted. Theres also tons of products for going direct with guitar, the Ox Box and Suhr RLIR are two popular ones. Can use headphones if you want

8 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Vdrums aren’t too loud and I’m guessing bass and guitar don’t need to be loud for recording, so I don’t need too much I think

Just know that no amount of absorption is realistically going to cut down the sound getting out of the room.

Second lesson: egg cartons don't do shit, and don't listen to anyone who says they do.

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

I have this 15 year old PA system that I used for an outdoor theater setup many years ago. Is it too powerful to use as monitors?

Guitar Center
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B-52 Matrix-2000 Value Package | Guitar Center

Shop for the B-52 Matrix-2000 Value Package in and receive free shipping and guaranteed lowest price.

So I spent a fair amount on Adams A7X and T10S subwoofer. Pretty good home studio monitors. Over time, I found my best mixes were with a decent set of headphones (Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro) and the Waves CLA Nx plugin that takes your headphones known EQ and shapes it to match Chris Lord Alge's studio so that you are kinda-sorta transported into a non-shitty room.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-nx

The reason? My room sucks. Eventually, those fancy monitors that cost 5-8 times as much as the headphones and plugin became just being used for tracking. I still might reference them mixing, but only after I get a good mix in the headphones and plugin and am just checking it out on other speakers and tweaking.

So I sold those monitors and the sub and have my performance PA set up as monitors for tracking. I use the headphones and CLA NX plugin for mixing, and cross reference on the PA, laptop and car speakers. For my needs in this shitty 12x12 box that will never be great acoustically, those monitors were not the best allocation of resources.

So I would say start with what you have, wait for the need for something more to emerge.

Edited by Goredho

Started a duo 5 1/2 years ago. Done about 300 or so paid gigs since then. I’ve told the story on the guitar pron thread I think at some point.

We made a promo video this week

Holy cow, has it been 5 years? Man time flies.

51 minutes ago, G650 said:

The answer is always "depends". I would DI the bass regardless as you can always reamp it if you really wanted. Theres also tons of products for going direct with guitar, the Ox Box and Suhr RLIR are two popular ones. Can use headphones if you want

The hot new thing on the block in this regard is Paradise Guitar Studio from Universal Audio. I have demoed it, and its good. At only $149, its not going to break the bank.



3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

The hot new thing on the block in this regard is Paradise Guitar Studio from Universal Audio. I have demoed it, and its good. At only $149, its not going to break the bank.



Yeah I saw it the other day when I was picking up a plugin for PT. How does it compare to Tonex?

8 minutes ago, G650 said:

Holy cow, has it been 5 years? Man time flies.

Yea. Getting close to 6 actually. Played our first gig on the patio from that video in May 2020.

Edited by tbone_

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yeah I saw it the other day when I was picking up a plugin for PT. How does it compare to Tonex?

I think they are both great, but Universal Audio wins in the recording context, imo. Tonex is better for a live rig. When I get back to focusing on recording I’m going to buy it. One thing that is nice about the UA emulations is that there are no dead tones. It’s all good. Tonex has the crowdsource model for a library of sounds and 75% of what the crowd sources are not worth your time.

Edited by Goredho

Since I got my 2555SL back from service I've been enjoying running it through my Suhr RLIR for messing around. I still mic the cabs for final tracks because I want the control of mic placement and room effect, but it sounds pretty good for straight up rock tones through the onboard 4x12 greenback IR.

20260110_203906.jpg

So, from the original post: "Developing Playing & Singing Skills - recommendations and progress around learning to play and sing"

Currently investing time trying to develop my voice to whatever degree I can. I had "Brett Manning Singing Success 360" recommended to me by someone who used it to develop their voice, and I'll be dammed if it isn't helping. Its not cheap, but its helping and has the option for 1 on 1 lessons online or with a certified vocal coach locally. I'd be curious what others have done to jumpstart their vocal development.

Singing Success
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Singing Success 360 - Singing Success

Today, you can start a vocal program that will give you the voice you’ve always dreamed of. You’ll build a strong foundation with good techniques that will keep you singing for years to come. Singing
  • Author
14 minutes ago, Goredho said:

So, from the original post: "Developing Playing & Singing Skills - recommendations and progress around learning to play and sing"

Currently investing time trying to develop my voice to whatever degree I can. I had "Brett Manning Singing Success 360" recommended to me by someone who used it to develop their voice, and I'll be dammed if it isn't helping. Its not cheap, but its helping and has the option for 1 on 1 lessons online or with a certified vocal coach locally. I'd be curious what others have done to jumpstart their vocal development.

Singing Success
No image preview

Singing Success 360 - Singing Success

Today, you can start a vocal program that will give you the voice you’ve always dreamed of. You’ll build a strong foundation with good techniques that will keep you singing for years to come. Singing

I’m looking forward to seeing what I can even do. Quite literally ā€œfinding my voiceā€. Figured I’d probably need to find a coach at some point to guide me in the right direction. I was always able to tune timpani better than most and think I’m pretty sensitive to pitch, so I think I can hit notes accurately within my range, but I don’t know how to sing properly.

You are getting rock solid advice here.

4 hours ago, G650 said:

So soundproofing is a whole long thing. Acoustic panels will tune the frequency response of the room, but stopping sound leaving is a different thing.

This. Tuning a room with absorption and diffusion will make it so that what you're hearing at your mixing position is accurate, and it will "translate" to other environments. It's pretty much impossible to make a small bedroom super accurate, but a few thoughtful purchases and DIY projects can go a long way.

Soundproofing is a completely different thing, and it's actually at odds with tuning the room.

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

First rule of blocking sound: you need mass. If you're considering anything approaching normal rock sound levels, your whole house is gonna hear it as well as your closer neighbords. The solution is costly -- either float a second interior room that is decoupled from the outer walls, or (at a bare minimum) consider lead sheet hung in the exterior walls.

And this.

I really wouldn't spend too much $$$ trying to sound proof a spare bedroom. Unless you're gonna take some drastic and expensive actions (replacing regular windows with multi-plane fixed glass, etc), you're not going to get great results, because every dollar you spend on something that's NOT the weak spot is a mostly-wasted dollar.

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Just know that no amount of absorption is realistically going to cut down the sound getting out of the room.

Second lesson: egg cartons don't do shit, and don't listen to anyone who says they do.

Yeah, do NOT spend hundreds of dollars getting thin foam (like egg cartons) that you put all over the walls. It's gonna soak up all the high frequencies and do nothing for the bass (which is where all the problems live).

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