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Near collision of Delta airliners


ImissWallyPryor

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9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

IMG_3006.gif.5288fe12ff71421c8108396d39d57378.gif

 

my life is nothing I thought it should be and everything I was worried it would become because for 50 seconds I thought there was monsters on the world

Damn you, man!  So I used to love flying with my Dad.  Mainly bonding time, but I actually thought it was just so cool as a kid to be sitting in a chair in the sky off to somewhere new.  Then the "Twilight Zone" movie comes out and the reboot of that story line with Jon Lithgow and the the monster on the wing.  And that really fucked with me for awhile.  Then it's all find\e and good until many years later, late 1990's.  I'm flying out to California for an interview.  And we hit some shit turbulence over Phoenix.  I'm seated over the wing.  And there's a guy about my age now with his son in my row.  And he turned to me with the look of Shatner/Lithgow from those scenes after staring out at the wing.  And this panicked look of sweat and "who will take care of my son?" washed over him.  And it scared the living shit out of me.  Obviously no monster on the wing, but that same sweaty "what's gonna happen to us" on some U.S. Airways/America West flight to nowhere.  

Because of that show/movie and that real life incident, I now freak the fuck out on almost every single flight I take.  Only good news for my fellow passengers is I keep it to myself.  But fucking-a.  

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2 hours ago, McCroskey said:

Well, OP has a right to be pissed as fuck about what happened last week.

His daughter’s flight (Airbus A320) lined up and commenced takeoff from runway 26L in Atlanta and moments before it achieved V1, another Delta Airbus A350 (tail N504DN) being towed/ferried, temporarily crossed onto the same runway.

From where I’m sitting it appears to be an ATC issue but there def needs to be an investigation into this. I would guess the tow driver is most likely at fault as I just can’t see two pilots taking off without clearance.

Oh shit did that Delta Tug 2 driver move from Kennedy to ATL?

 

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2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Damn you, man!  So I used to love flying with my Dad.  Mainly bonding time, but I actually thought it was just so cool as a kid to be sitting in a chair in the sky off to somewhere new.  Then the "Twilight Zone" movie comes out and the reboot of that story line with Jon Lithgow and the the monster on the wing.  And that really fucked with me for awhile.  Then it's all find\e and good until many years later, late 1990's.  I'm flying out to California for an interview.  And we hit some shit turbulence over Phoenix.  I'm seated over the wing.  And there's a guy about my age now with his son in my row.  And he turned to me with the look of Shatner/Lithgow from those scenes after staring out at the wing.  And this panicked look of sweat and "who will take care of my son?" washed over him.  And it scared the living shit out of me.  Obviously no monster on the wing, but that same sweaty "what's gonna happen to us" on some U.S. Airways/America West flight to nowhere.  

Because of that show/movie and that real life incident, I now freak the fuck out on almost every single flight I take.  Only good news for my fellow passengers is I keep it to myself.  But fucking-a.  

image.gif.0fe6e3ac2a0736ed50ff7252873e7595.gif

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Yep, maybe even closer to 105 knots upon closer inspection of the data.  V1 for that type I believe is around 120knots minimum...but can be as high as 140knots depending on conditions.  
V1 is dependent on many variables, including aircraft config, flap settings, runway length, engine power setting, and aircraft weight to name a few.
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3 hours ago, McCroskey said:

Well, OP has a right to be pissed as fuck about what happened last week.

His daughter’s flight (Airbus A320) lined up and commenced takeoff from runway 26L in Atlanta and moments before it achieved V1, another Delta Airbus A350 (tail N504DN) being towed/ferried, temporarily crossed onto the same runway.

From where I’m sitting it appears to be an ATC issue but there def needs to be an investigation into this. I would guess the tow driver is most likely at fault as I just can’t see two pilots taking off without clearance.

image.gif.f3660873e353ee90c273576bf681410e.gif

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On 6/18/2023 at 4:05 PM, McCroskey said:

 


Gonna go ahead and disagree with you there that the carriers are “cutting corners” on safety.

As you allude to we’re at almost 23 years since the last mainline carrier had a “crash”…AA 587 if I recall correctly in October 2001. Some regional carriers had crashes between then and 2009 but there’s been nothing since then. Southwest of course had the incident in 2018/2019 were an uncontained engine failure caused that poor woman from New Mexico to die, but the plane obviously landed safely.

IMO I wouldn’t say anything is in a state of “rapid decline” but certainly there are areas that need more attention, especially with air traffic volumes now exceeding pre-pandemic levels. Hopefully congress and/or the FAA get some improvements in place soon so we don’t have to experience a crash first.

 

I respect your avatar. You probably have a lot of experience in this area.  My belief is that our recent (good) safety record is in spite of the regulators and the government, not because of it.  I don't have much opinion on ATC other than how we all know they're understaffed and it has got to be an incredibly stressful job.  

The FAA though...yikes.  It's disgusting how much those regulators were allowing Boeing's team to steer their work.  And several hundred people did die because of that, it's more luck that the MCAS crashes happened elsewhere considering those pilots followed documented procedure and the post-analysis showed that they had only a few seconds to diagnose and correct the issue.

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Absolutely.  Boeing has continued to squeeze way too much blood from the  stone that is the 737 airframe.  In addition, the FAA trusted them too much to self-regulate.  Both of these things are probably due to a complex mix of corporate profit chasing, poor leadership at the FAA and budgetary pressure by the government.  

My understanding is part of the reason for the lax oversight was the FAA didn’t have enough funding to adequately staff engineering/inspectors.  That’s obviously not the whole truth but I’m tired of the ‘government doesn’t work, so we cut funding/oversight so business can flourish away from regulation and are acting surprised that businesses pursued profit at the expense of the public’ crowing. 

Texas just passed a law that’ll strip cities of rules they implemented for worker safety (like water breaks), under the guise of ensuring business isn’t burdened with inconsistent regulation.   Are we going to act surprised when someone dies of heat stroke because the company wants to squeeze more productivity during a heat wave?

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Thanks for more nightmare fuel. 

"Oh look, no ramp agents to safely push back the plane."

-why?  are they on a water break?

"No, the apron heat index is 135 degrees.  They all fainted."

-okay then, we'll wing it.  get it?  

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26 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Absolutely.  Boeing has continued to squeeze way too much blood from the  stone that is the 737 airframe.  In addition, the FAA trusted them too much to self-regulate.  Both of these things are probably due to a complex mix of corporate profit chasing, poor leadership at the FAA and budgetary pressure by the government.  

My understanding is part of the reason for the lax oversight was the FAA didn’t have enough funding to adequately staff engineering/inspectors.  That’s obviously not the whole truth but I’m tired of the ‘government doesn’t work, so we cut funding/oversight so business can flourish away from regulation and are acting surprised that businesses pursued profit at the expense of the public’ crowing. 

Texas just passed a law that’ll strip cities of rules they implemented for worker safety (like water breaks), under the guise of ensuring business isn’t burdened with inconsistent regulation.   Are we going to act surprised when someone dies of heat stroke because the company wants to squeeze more productivity during a heat wave?

This.  I don't remember all the details but there are internal email threads from the lead test engineer at Boeing with other Boeing employees talking about how to deceive the FAA.  It's easy to draw a straight line connection between that and hundreds of dead people.  We seem to have an aversion to putting white collar criminals in jail for some reason, but this is a case where it may be warranted, at a minimum a trial on that stuff.  I think corporate america might put a bit more balance on profit seeking if there was an actual personal consequence in the balance for the executive choosing to lie/cut corners.

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