Thanks Fattie. Shank, we dont weigh them anymore but both were prolly close to 190-200 pounds pre dressed weight. They have big red whitetail which are similar in size to northern deer ala kansas. These were red deer. The smaller gray deer we have are more like big texas whitetails. The smaller compact 10 with all the trash scored right at 148 with only a 13” spread. His terth were ground down to nubs. He was we figured 10+. Big deer scored 163 and change. His teeth showed alot of wear. We thought he was 7 years old. No feeders on this ranch. Just spot and stalk. You see one you like you gotta figure out how to go and get him. Pretty cool way to hunt. With this big country you gotta be ready for 50 yard to 400 yard plus shots, if your comfortable with tjose long shots. The narrow 10 we rattled back to 50 yards and put on thru the base if his neck. That wide buck we spotted him bedding down next to a cedar pile around 790 yards aeay. We hiked in behind stop a ridge. We could only see his head and part of his rack. Set up prone at 420 yards. We waited 3 hours for him to stand. He got up facing straight away from me. Had a decision to make as he looked like he was gonna bolt. The 28 nosler with 180gr vld-h did the trick as he dropped in his tracks.