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2023 Poker in the Rear


Lurch
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7 hours ago, Lurch said:

Start live stream on Friday going 0-3 on first three hands, then get JJ vs an unknown that looks suspiciously solid (8:52 in)
 
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/8pqif_WYFWM?start=532&feature=oembed

rough sesh man...  ive had days like that where you cant ever get out of the hole.   even when you doubled up on the flush v set

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rough sesh man...  ive had days like that where you cant ever get out of the hole.   even when you doubled up on the flush v set

Fortunately I sat with $1k I was up plying $2/5 before the stream started, so it really wasn’t that bad a night. Note, too, the software misread my cards on the flush vessel and thought I lost, so the leaderboard they showed was wrong
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How the fuck do you people play hold em?

sat here at a $2/$3 table at Harvey’s in tahoe for 3 hours. 
raised pre flop twice, TT and QQ 
Jxx and Kxx flops and continuation bet each time only to be reraised $100. 
I think I’ve seen 1 hand where I would have won if I stuck around.  

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How the fuck do you people play hold em?



The key is to be patient. If you avoid getting reckless and bide your time, eventually some Omaha player will sit while waiting for a spot in their game, and that’s when you start printing money.
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9 hours ago, dirtonia said:

Put in about a 5 hour session last night at TCH. I didn’t play particularly well, but had my big pairs hold (AA and KK) for two big pots and nut nut on a bomb pot.

+1500

Nice ^.

After taking a beating (no matter how I played) pretty much for the last 3/4 of 2022 at the Lodge, I've gone back to TCH a few times this year (with small positive results). Went there on Monday cuz I had a feeling their bad beat was getting close to hitting. Sat down at 7p and by 10 I was up 1200. Thought about leaving but the table was definitely active and I also kept at least splitting bomb pots.

Young kid ( good, LAG that I've played with before awhile back) sat down to my left at around 1030p and kept eyeing my stack and baiting me to get into a pot with him. He was raising around 20 or more each hand (either straddle or bet) and I figured to just be patient with him. For the most part though, I went card dead with him there. He finally moved to the other end of the table ( not sure why, as he was getting hands and dragging pots) but it worked out for me. Half hr later we get it in against each other in a pretty juicy bomb pot where I take around half of his 1100 stack. He then proceeds to go on tilt and starts dumping chips and money to about everyone at the table. He throws his last 150 in blind preflop, and I wake up with Kings. Half the table behind me so I raise to $300 to isolate but the small blind goes All In for $525, OOPS. Easy call for the 225 as there is $975 in, but as I do, he announces he has the best hand,...AA and wants to do two boards. I was all for that but the kid wants only one board so dealer is not willing to run it twice even though there would be a side pot between myself and the small blind.  Last card shown on the flop is a King, turn and river are both 7s for a boat (just for overkill). 

Left around 40 minutes later (2am) up $2700. Oh and I got an extra hundred for being clocked in around 1am as the bad beat was hit down at TCH in the valley. 

Good start (for now) for 2023.

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Action at TCH has continued to be legit. Had a long session Friday and short one today, +2.8k.

Think they’re moving just up 183 where the Kobe is and will have more tables. Was bumpin Friday, all tables other than the stream one were running.

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Two part post:

1.  When a table of pros sit with each other. Like 8 person negraneau, Phil, Phil, hansen, etc.   do the losers just go on tilt or get unlucky. I know there are different skill levels even among pros, but if they can all read each other, all change up plays, how do the winners continue to win?

 

2.  Youre in the final 8, top 4 paysYou’re last to act with AA. Five people go all in pre flop. You can cover the biggest all in stack  If you fold, you’re guaranteed to be in the money.  Fold or go all in. 

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1. a lot of luck with evenly skilled players. Coolers like Ace high flush vs King high flush or boat over boat is where the money moves around.

2. You aren't guaranteed to be in the money if you fold. If the short stack has the best hand, and the 2nd smallest stack has the second best hand, 3rd-3rd, 4th-4th etc, then the money just switches around with no one eliminated. With 5 others you're only about 20-25% to win. Depends on two things. If first is a shitload more than 2-4 then I would because I want to win. If 1-4 payouts are flat I probably fold and hope biggest stack wins. 

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1. At that point, they are playing a different game than “normal”. They are now leveraging their hours of studying the other’s specific play. I see this in the play of pros in our room. They are not treating me the same way they treat other pros.  They have to continually learn and change up their own play to stay profitable.

2. You should be playing to win a tourney, not simply cash it. The reality is that tourney poker is highly unprofitable for most of us. The only way to get close to profitability is to take the top prize on occasion and if you just play to cash, you’re greatly reducing your capability of taking one down. You’ve got an incredible opportunity to take a commanding chip lead w AA here. Maximize it.

Edited by Lurch
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38 minutes ago, blacklab said:

1. a lot of luck with evenly skilled players. Coolers like Ace high flush vs King high flush or boat over boat is where the money moves around.

2. You aren't guaranteed to be in the money if you fold. If the short stack has the best hand, and the 2nd smallest stack has the second best hand, 3rd-3rd, 4th-4th etc, then the money just switches around with no one eliminated. With 5 others you're only about 20-25% to win. Depends on two things. If first is a shitload more than 2-4 then I would because I want to win. If 1-4 payouts are flat I probably fold and hope biggest stack wins. 

Like with 1 I imagine it’s like 👍 playing a professional sport.   Still different levels but the difference is minute.  And even pros can chase or lose their emotions on one hand.     And if there’s familiarity “Matusow hasn’t played the last 12 hands and I know he’s still pissed at me from last week he may get aggressive”

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21 minutes ago, Lurch said:

1. At that point, they are playing a different game than “normal”. They are now leveraging their hours of studying the other’s specific play. I see this in the play of pros in our room. They are not treating me the same way they treat other pros.  They have to continually learn and change up their own play to stay profitable.

2. You should be playing to win a tourney, not simply cash it. The reality is that tourney poker is highly unprofitable for most of us. The only way to get close to profitability is to take the top prize on occasion and if you just play to cash, you’re greatly reducing your capability of taking one down. You’ve got an incredible opportunity to take a commanding chip lead w AA here. Maximize it.

Got it. Regarding point 1, if there’s a table of five pros and three amateurs, the pros may avoid each other unless necessary 

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Got it. Regarding point 1, if there’s a table of five pros and three amateurs, the pros may avoid each other unless necessary 

That’s pretty much what happens. And they all know it, and also that they need to hide it as much as possible. You want the amateurs to feel comfortable and not realize they’re effectively being targeted by the pack.

When you study your ranges, you see that your preflop call/fold/raise range facing an open is entirely dependent on WHO that opener is. They’re doing that to a much greater degree. Those guys are factoring in the persona of their opponent on virtually every move they make.
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On 1/23/2023 at 3:01 PM, blacklab said:

1. a lot of luck with evenly skilled players. Coolers like Ace high flush vs King high flush or boat over boat is where the money moves around.

2. You aren't guaranteed to be in the money if you fold. If the short stack has the best hand, and the 2nd smallest stack has the second best hand, 3rd-3rd, 4th-4th etc, then the money just switches around with no one eliminated. With 5 others you're only about 20-25% to win. Depends on two things. If first is a shitload more than 2-4 then I would because I want to win. If 1-4 payouts are flat I probably fold and hope biggest stack wins. 

Change your answer if top 7 makes money and at least two of the all ins can cover you?

Edited by closetohumping
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1) Exactly even skill levels are going to be very rare, and they will often try to exploit certain weaknesses (Player A pays off too many river bets, etc.), but generally a pro isn't going to play in that game without some dead money to spice it up. Put another way, what good is it to be the 8th best player in the world, if the top 7 are at the same table? Game selection is a huge part of playing successfully.

2) Easy easy easy easy call unless one of a few very rare situations that are exceptions apply. You simply aren't going to find a spot with more $$ equity than AA in preflop. The larger the tournament, the more pronounced this effect is, b/c the more buyins there are at stake up top. If you're playing a $2100 tourney with 1400 runners, $640k up top and a $3000 mincash, and you played the tournament 100 times, you make more than twice as much money winning once and bubbling 99 times compared to mincashing 100 times. 

Your "top 7 make the money" is even more of a call, since to miss the money, you not only have to lose to someone that covers you, but have no one that you cover get eliminated. 

The exceptions:

  • The tournament is a satellite where the top players all earn the same prize and you are a lock or a virtual lock to earn the prize if you fold everything.
  • You have a micro stack (2 blinds or something) where even winning the hand makes you not that much more of a favorite to get a top position, but still would probably need to be right on the stone bubble just because most hands like this don't actually have 3 or 4 people busting. 
  • Very rare situations where life utility can come up. If you win a $30 satty into the main event, the $15,000 mincash is a huge ROI and I understand decreasing your overall $EV slightly b/c of that utility (same idea as if someone offered me the choice of taking $2M straight up or flipping a coin for $5M, I'm snapcalling the 2M even though I lose $500k in EV, b/c the gap in utility from 0 to 2M is WAY greater than that from 2M to 5M.) But that only applies to tournies where you get in for WAY less than the buyin. If you buy into a $600 tourney, and are then folding AA pre to lock up $1100 mincashes, you have no business buying into $600 tournies to begin with. 
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THE most tilting move in poker? Leaving your headphones at home and being forced to listen to asinine table talk. Particularly painful on tourney days where everyone insists on telling how they went out and their decision process.

Fucking hell

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