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8 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

I understand the Texas Public Information Act. But the reporter asserted the information came not from a Public Information Act request, but from a Freedom of Information Act request. The terms are not interchangeable when reporters are asserting facts. It doesn't work that way. Reporters don't get to report, then expect the readers to discern what they actually meant to say.

There was no "Freedom of Information Act request." Period. The story filed by Rittenburg has factual errors.

So, since we know the information couldn't possibly have been obtained as Rittenburg claimed, was there actually a Public Information Act request, who filed it, how did the response come so quickly, what information was requested, and what information was produced?

Reporters are supposed to report facts and let the readers interpret the information for themselves. We know what was reported in this story was not factual.

As I said, when we see bullshit, we should call it bullshit.

 

You are picking nits.

The terms are used interchangeably all the time. I work at a state institution and get to deal with this shit all the time. Just admit you fucked up and forgot Texas has its own law that does THE EXACT FUCKING SAME THING and go on.  It's o.k. to be wrong.

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38 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

You are picking nits.

The terms are used interchangeably all the time. I work at a state institution and get to deal with this shit all the time. Just admit you fucked up and forgot Texas has its own law that does THE EXACT FUCKING SAME THING and go on.  It's o.k. to be wrong.

With all due respect, they are not "THE EXACT FUCKING SAME THING."

When reporters report, the are supposed to report facts. I get that you work at a state institution and such things as laws and facts don't matter in your world, but reporters are supposed to live in a world where facts have at least a scintilla of importance. You know, the world most people live in.

Point out the passage in the Texas Public Information Act where the executive, through an executive order, can keep matters secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy, and I will concede. Want me to point out more differences between the two laws? I can. Trust me. There are two separate laws because two separate laws are needed. They serve similar intents, but they absolutely are not "THE EXACT FUCKING SAME THING."

The two laws are in fact two separate laws, with separate functions. The reporter was talking out of his ass. He got his facts wrong. Why is it such an onerous expectation in the minds of government employees that reporters establish their facts before publishing their stories?

Again, I understand you live in a world where federal and state laws laws are interchangeable, completely malleable, and meaningless. But those of us outside the cushy guaranteed lifetime employment and non-accountability of government employment actually do have to know how both federal and state laws operate. 

Adam Rittenburg, the reporter of the story, asserted a fact that was absolutely untrue. The FOIA was not invoked to obtain the document(s) at issue. We know his reporting is factually wrong in at least one instance. Could he possibly be wrong in at least two instances? Maybe three?

I commend you on your decision to work for a state institution. You never have to live outside of the womb. But the rest of us live in a world of facts, reality, and laws. And, in this instance, the writer of the story got all three wrong in one sentence.

And, as I said, for those of us who life in the real world and not eternally in the womb, when we see bullshit, we call bullshit.

Thank you for your service to our government. Have a nice day.

Edited by Randolph Duke

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6 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

With all due respect, they are not "THE EXACT FUCKING SAME THING."

When reporters report, the are supposed to report facts. I get that you work at a state institution and such things as laws and facts don't matter in your world, but reporters are supposed to live in a world where facts have at least a scintilla of importance. You know, the world most people live in.

Point out the passage in the Texas Public Information Act where the executive, through an executive order, can keep matters secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy, and I will concede. Want me to point out more differences between the two laws? I can. Trust me. There are two separate laws because two separate laws are needed. They serve similar intents, but they absolutely are not "THE EXACT FUCKING SAME THING."

The two laws are in fact two separate laws, with separate functions. The reporter was talking out of his ass. He got his facts wrong. Why is it such an onerous expectation in the minds of government employees that reporters establish their facts before publishing their stories?

Again, I understand you live in a world where federal and state laws laws are interchangeable, completely malleable, and meaningless. But those of us outside the cushy guaranteed lifetime employment and non-accountability of government employment actually do have to know how both federal and state laws operate. 

Adam Rittenburg, the reporter of the story, asserted a fact that was absolutely untrue. The FOIA was not invoked to obtain the document(s) at issue. We know his reporting is factually wrong in at least one instance. Could he possibly be wrong in at least two instances? Maybe three?

I commend you on your decision to work for a state institution. You never have to live outside of the womb. But the rest of us live in a world of facts, reality, and laws. And, in this instance, the writer of the story got all three wrong in one sentence.

And, as I said, for those of us who life in the real world and not eternally in the womb, when we see bullshit, we call bullshit.

Thank you for your service to our government. Have a nice day.

You need a hobby, dude.

And I promise you I work my ass off.  So don't disparage what I do for a living.  I work 80 hour weeks with no additional pay for the hours I work.  So take your sanctimonious attitude and shove it up your ass.  You have no right to judge me when you don't even know what I do for a living.  

And in the end, the email was subject to the Texas Public Information Act.  If you had known that, you would have included that in your original post.  But you didn't, because you didn't know what you were talking about.  I pointed it out, and instead of being a fucking man and saying, "Oops, my bad", you have to go on the defensive to cover up your ignorance and then attack me professionally when you don't even know what it is I do for a living.

 

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Who fucking cares?   Not even worth arguing over.

Now, about this consistency and enforcement of policy across its members’ organizations by the NCAA...

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1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

You need a hobby, dude.

And I promise you I work my ass off.  So don't disparage what I do for a living.  I work 80 hour weeks with no additional pay for the hours I work.  So take your sanctimonious attitude and shove it up your ass.  You have no right to judge me when you don't even know what I do for a living.  

And in the end, the email was subject to the Texas Public Information Act.  If you had known that, you would have included that in your original post.  But you didn't, because you didn't know what you were talking about.  I pointed it out, and instead of being a fucking man and saying, "Oops, my bad", you have to go on the defensive to cover up your ignorance and then attack me professionally when you don't even know what it is I do for a living.

 

The reality is that I don't know the request was pursuant to the Texas Public Information Act. Because the reporter asserted it was pursuant to a completely different piece of legislation. Because the reporter, charged with reporting facts, couldn't do his job with a basic level of competence.

In the world most people live in, facts matter. We live in the world where an errant comma can overturn a death sentence (yes, that actually happened in Florida).

When most people spot an obvious factual error, we tend not to resort to conjecture and insert a fact we feel would be more appropriate. Shockingly to some, most people tend to think facts matter when reporting news.

I don't know what you do for a living. And I don't care what you do for a living. I thank your for your governmental service. But I am concerned that you seem to serve in a position of public trust and, when you spot a factual error, you simply infer what you believe the individual should have said, instead of allowing the individual's words to stand as given. To me, it is disconcerting when public officials do not allow an individual's words to stand on their own, but rather governmental employees feel they are in a superior position to an individual and believe they are granted the right to infer words and meanings that were never delivered by the original author. ("I work for the government, I will tell you what you meant to say instead of allowing you to speak for yourself!"). Who do you work for, the Chinese Consulate?

Shockingly, to some, when allowed to speak for themselves ( as opposed to having government employees reinterpret their comments), the comments of individuals offer a lot of information to the recipients of those comments.

Words have plain meaning. The author was a professional writer. He knew the meaning of each word he wrote. As educated individuals, we should allow the author's words to stand on their own.

The writer made a claim that is not supported by fact. He is a hack writer. It is what it is. Get over your position as a government employee and quit inferring statements that the great unwashed masses never made for themselves. Let the plain and simple words of the hoi palloi stand as they are offered.

The writer fucked up and made an untrue statement. Based on his story, we have no clue whatsoever what happened. It is what it is.

 

Edited by Randolph Duke

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Tough loss to Kansas for Tech fans...

Yeager Shots: Texas Tech football hits rock bottom

https://247sports.com/college/texas-tech/Article/Texas-Tech-Red-Raiders-football-rock-bottom-Kansas-Jayhawks-137590516/

 

Significance of Texas Tech's loss to Kansas hard to quantify

https://247sports.com/college/texas-tech/Article/Texas-Tech-Red-Raiders-football-Kansas-loss--137589461/

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Yeah, I was rooting for Wells but now I am kinda not.  I don't think he was the right choice.  Yost is garbage as an OC.  Welcome to being the new cellar dweller Tech.

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6 hours ago, Moby Ric said:

Yeah, I was rooting for Wells but now I am kinda not.  I don't think he was the right choice.  Yost is garbage as an OC.  Welcome to being the new cellar dweller Tech.

I'm rooting for Wells cause I want Tech to win, but I'm def not excited to have him as HC and never thought he was the right choice either.

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Losing to KU isn't the end of the world, TCU and UT have both done it recently.  In fact, KU in Lawrence has always kind of given TCU problems.  Anyway, KU is much improved this season.  The only real ass kicking they've taken was by TCU and that was a revenge game after they beat us last season.  Gary usually wins revenge games. 

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I’m not out on Wells at all.   Good lord... his window sills aren’t even dusty yet.

This season was going to suck from the get-go.  Let’s see where it goes from here.

 

Then again, I went to a shit-ton of games at Minute Maid when the Astros were losing 100+ games.  Cowboys haven’t won shit in2 decades.  I can live with my teams suckin... I’m still willing to see where Wells takes it.

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I am not rooting for him to fail, I would love for him to have success.  However I just don't see it happening from what I am seeing on the field.  baylor hired a new coach after being destroyed by scandal, and look how fast they turned it around.  Tech just can't seem to get it done in football.

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2 minutes ago, Moby Ric said:

I am not rooting for him to fail, I would love for him to have success.  However I just don't see it happening from what I am seeing on the field.  baylor hired a new coach after being destroyed by scandal, and look how fast they turned it around.  Tech just can't seem to get it done in football.

Tech said winning football the right way wasn’t important to Tech.  Right at 10 years ago.

I guess that’s why I don’t get pissed any more. They reset expectations. Hard.

 

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I'm not pissed.  Just getting too used to the ongoing failures at Tech in football.  Depressing that this is the new normal at Tech.

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5 minutes ago, Moby Ric said:

I am not rooting for him to fail, I would love for him to have success.  However I just don't see it happening from what I am seeing on the field.  baylor hired a new coach after being destroyed by scandal, and look how fast they turned it around.  Tech just can't seem to get it done in football.

Rhule was 1-11 in his first year.  They lost to UTSA and Liberty.  As bad as this season seems, Wells can still do the same.  I'm going to give him a few games into next season to even start to form an opinion.  

And I do wish this season was going better

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Maybe it's just me, but I like the guy.  After 9 years of Tuberville not giving a single shit and Kliff being Kliff , Wells seems like a breath of fresh air.  Yost and Patterson may not be the coordinators we need long term, but with Duffey at QB on one hand and a horrifically bad secondary on the other, I don't even know that you can fairly judge what they're doing.  

49 minutes ago, angelos's frog said:

Losing to KU isn't the end of the world, TCU and UT have both done it recently.  In fact, KU in Lawrence has always kind of given TCU problems.  Anyway, KU is much improved this season.  The only real ass kicking they've taken was by TCU and that was a revenge game after they beat us last season.  Gary usually wins revenge games. 

This bears repeating. A lot Tech fans seem to think this loss on Saturday means we're doomed to spend at least the next decade in last place in the league.

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Cody Campbell, former Tech O-lineman, one of Texas' youngest billionaires, and one of Tech's biggest donors has been making a big stink about this game on the Tech rivals board. It's been entertaining.

Edited by Brian Fantana

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18 hours ago, DeadArmadillo said:

Rhule was 1-11 in his first year.  They lost to UTSA and Liberty.  As bad as this season seems, Wells can still do the same.  I'm going to give him a few games into next season to even start to form an opinion.  

And I do wish this season was going better

Great point.  Hell of a lot less pressure for Rhule at Baylor during his first 5yrs because of that terrible scandal...

Wells needs 4yrs, better players, and a good QB.

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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Cody Campbell, former Tech O-lineman, one of Texas' youngest billionaires, and one of Tech's biggest donors has been making a big stink about this game on the Tech rivals board. It's been entertaining.

I guess he still wants Ole Red Bull... who has taken the AAC by force!

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It seems like Leach himself publicly stating something to the effect of, "hell no, I'm never going back there" (I forget exactly what he said, but it was pretty much this) would be enough for everyone to let go of that particular pipe dream.

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1 minute ago, angelos's frog said:

I wonder if Tech knew about this prior to the hire?

 

 

I'm sure they did.  I googled this, and there are plenty of stories about it, dating back a couple of years.

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On 10/29/2019 at 12:27 PM, Dirk X West said:

It seems like Leach himself publicly stating something to the effect of, "hell no, I'm never going back there" (I forget exactly what he said, but it was pretty much this) would be enough for everyone to let go of that particular pipe dream.

Leach would have more than willing to return to Tech as long as they paid him the money he felt they owed him.  This verified by numerous credible sources.

Cody Campbell played for ML and is a friend.  As one of the guys who writes the big checks he was willing to make it happen.  Hocutt, like a dumb bastard, would have none of it.  Of course it's worth mentioning, Hocutt has yet to make the first good football hire in his entire career, even going back to Miami.

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9 hours ago, pigmeat markham said:

Leach would have more than willing to return to Tech as long as they paid him the money he felt they owed him.  This verified by numerous credible sources.

Cody Campbell played for ML and is a friend.  As one of the guys who writes the big checks he was willing to make it happen.  Hocutt, like a dumb bastard, would have none of it.  Of course it's worth mentioning, Hocutt has yet to make the first good football hire in his entire career, even going back to Miami.

They aren't going to pay him the money they owe him.  He knows that; we all know that.  That's the point.

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It's not fully up to Hocutt. Not one of the higher ups at Tech would likely sign off on bringing Leach back.

As far as this USU rape shit goes, it sounds like Wells played a guy who already had been accused of multiple rapes by multiple women. I can't fathom any reason to play someone in that situation, even if the allegations are yet uncorroborated. That's some Briles shit.

Edit: It seems they met with the player about it in January 2016 but he had already exhausted his eligibility in December 2015? I'm confused.

Edit2: Oh I see, so his accusers were on record with university staff AND the Title IX office before/during his senior season. If that's the case, there's almost no way Wells didn't know. Fuck him.

Edited by Brian Fantana

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36 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's not fully up to Hocutt. Not one of the higher ups at Tech would likely sign off on bringing Leach back.

As far as this USU rape shit goes, it sounds like Wells played a guy who already had been accused of multiple rapes by multiple women. I can't fathom any reason to play someone in that situation, even if the allegations are yet uncorroborated. That's some Briles shit.

Edit: It seems they met with the player about it in January 2016 but he had already exhausted his eligibility in December 2015? I'm confused.

Edit2: Oh I see, so his accusers were on record with university staff AND the Title IX office before/during his senior season. If that's the case, there's almost no way Wells didn't know. Fuck him.

I don't think Wells is Briles 2.0 but he does seem to have a little of that DNA. I doubt the media goes full ape shit with Tech like they did with Baylor. The sensationalism has sort of run it's course. Besides we haven't sent in our black ops guys, LOL.

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2 minutes ago, Extra Anejo said:

I don't think Wells is Briles 2.0 but he does seem to have a little of that DNA. I doubt the media goes full ape shit with Tech like they did with Baylor. The sensationalism has sort of run it's course. Besides we haven't sent in our black ops guys, LOL.

I'm hoping that this is more an issue of USU's admin being incompetent than Wells knowingly playing a player that has been accused of rape. It does seem like their Title IX office is Baylor-level incompetent, at least. I have trouble believing he didn't know, though.

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On 10/28/2019 at 4:24 PM, Iceman said:

I’m not out on Wells at all.   Good lord... his window sills aren’t even dusty yet.

 

It's Lubbock.  They're dusty.

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"Texas Tech released a response from Coach Wells on Friday afternoon:

'While at Utah State, I was asked to attend a meeting with the Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Torrey Green in January 2016 regarding an allegation. It is important to note that Torrey had already finished his senior season in 2015. I am well aware that I have a responsibility to report any possible Title IX issues. It is the Title IX Office’s responsibility to investigate an allegation, so it would have been completely wrong for me to have done so. While I followed all Utah State procedures, I am deeply saddened for the hurt suffered by these women.'"

Lawsuit accuses Matt Wells of not acting on sexual assault cases while at Utah State

Edited by Dirk X West

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4 hours ago, Extra Anejo said:

I don't think Wells is Briles 2.0 but he does seem to have a little of that DNA. I doubt the media goes full ape shit with Tech like they did with Baylor. The sensationalism has sort of run it's course. Besides we haven't sent in our black ops guys, LOL.

I think that it is important to point out that the issues that Baylor had occurred at Baylor.  Not at one of Art Briles previous stops.  What happened with Wells happened at Utah State, not at Tech.  And it's important to remember that the player didn't play at all after the meeting with Wells.  The "reporter" that rebroke the story makes it seem like he played a him after it was determined that he was charged with multiple rapes.  

Still, I hope if Wells was dishonest or disingenuous about the situation at Utah State or in the interview / vetting process with Tech, that he is terminated with cause.  Or even without cause.  Red Raiders can say what they want about Kingsbury, but I always felt like he acted with integrity.  Maybe to a fault.  I was never as sure about that with Wells.  He seems to put the faith force field around himself and that always makes me nervous

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From August 2018:

Utah State University employees failed to report what they knew about football player’s alleged sexual misconduct, internal investigation found

"Multiple employees at Utah State University who were required to report when they learned of possible sexual misconduct instead failed to act, according to a 2016 internal investigation launched after several female students said they were sexually assaulted by the same football player.

USU attorney Mica McKinney was tasked with learning what the university had known about allegations against linebacker Torrey Green and how the school handled the information. She found there was confusion across campus about which offices were responsible for responding to reports of sexual misconduct, a problem compounded by the school’s “siloed” approach — which meant employees had poor or irregular communication when it came to how to investigate reports, discipline students or provide advocacy for victims.

The release of her findings on Thursday was the first time USU has disclosed what specific shortcomings led to changes in how it handles reports of sexual misconduct. The release was part of a settlement in a lawsuit that USU filed against The Salt Lake Tribune last year seeking to block the release of records.

...

McKinney also found that there was poor communication between local law enforcement agencies and the university, which led to the school failing to learn about reported assaults involving its students.

Now, campus police are on the same case management system as other area police agencies, according to the report. The university’s new police chief and captain have also worked to “build strong relationships” with local law enforcement.

Logan Police Chief Gary Jensen said USU police taking part in this shared network — which also includes information from police dispatchers and jail records — leads to a better ability to help victims.

Multiple women, including USU students, had reported to Logan police in 2015 that Green had assaulted them. But asked in a records request for any communication from the department to school officials about Green, the agency said none existed."

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2 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Bowman redshirting the rest of the year

 

makes the tech game easier...

Duffey the last few weeks is better than Bowman ever was.  He has finally started taking care of the ball.  That was his only real on field issue.  Bowman is ready to play and can still enter one game and keep his redshirt.  Next season, Duffey will be a senior and Bowman a sophomore and Duffey will be the number one and Bowman the top backup. 

Essentially, Duffey beat out Bowman because he is the better QB

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On 11/8/2019 at 3:10 PM, Dirk X West said:

"Texas Tech released a response from Coach Wells on Friday afternoon:

'While at Utah State, I was asked to attend a meeting with the Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Torrey Green in January 2016 regarding an allegation. It is important to note that Torrey had already finished his senior season in 2015. I am well aware that I have a responsibility to report any possible Title IX issues. It is the Title IX Office’s responsibility to investigate an allegation, so it would have been completely wrong for me to have done so. While I followed all Utah State procedures, I am deeply saddened for the hurt suffered by these women.'"

Lawsuit accuses Matt Wells of not acting on sexual assault cases while at Utah State

What's not clear from that statement is whether Wells had knowledge of the allegation during the 2015 season.  

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1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

What's not clear from that statement is whether Wells had knowledge of the allegation during the 2015 season.  

Yep. That’s really the only important fact as it pertains to Wells/Tech. I expect more reporters will get wind of this and uncover details about what Wells knew while Green was still playing.

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There are parallels between what I've read of this case and what I recall of the Tevin Elliott case at Baylor. In his case court documents showed that school officials were aware of allegations but no proof that the coach knew anything until he was officially notified by the school a week or so before Tevin was arrested.

In Elliott's case he was removed from the football team 4 days before he was arrested (Spring of 2012) for the assault that he was later convicted of. That's when Briles contends he first knew anything. There were two other cases that occurred prior to that though that the local police were aware of that did not involve Baylor students and the school knew of those complaints at some point prior to Elliott's assault on Jasmin Hernandez.

Personally I find it implausible that a coach would not be aware of such allegations.

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24 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

I think you meant "impossible."

Some hierarchies are constructed intentionally to be quite insular and protect those in the high tower. "Impossible" excludes those.

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25 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Some hierarchies are constructed intentionally to be quite insular and protect those in the high tower. "Impossible" excludes those.

I think this sort of thing probably goes on at a lot of places, where they make the process of reporting these things very opaque and inefficient, so it never reaches the HC and he's effectively shielded from it. 

Of course, it could be that, like Briles, Wells was complicit, and if so, he should be fired immediately.  There needs to be some proof in Wells's case, though, and if there is, it hasn't yet come to light. 

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45 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

I think this sort of thing probably goes on at a lot of places, where they make the process of reporting these things very opaque and inefficient, so it never reaches the HC and he's effectively shielded from it. 

Of course, it could be that, like Briles, Wells was complicit, and if so, he should be fired immediately.  There needs to be some proof in Wells's case, though, and if there is, it hasn't yet come to light. 

"Proof" is a high hurdle to clear and really only has a place in the courtroom. A number of complainants are still going to court in Art's case and yet no judgment has been rendered against him personally that I'm aware of. The court of public opinion does not demand the same standard of "proof". Like many others I'm of the opinion that Saint Arthur knew something and failed to intervene because FOOTBALL.

With the similarities I see in the two schools' handling of their situations I suspect the same is true for Wells. Not my cross to bear though and I'm grateful for that.

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26 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

"Proof" is a high hurdle to clear and really only has a place in the courtroom. A number of complainants are still going to court in Art's case and yet no judgment has been rendered against him personally that I'm aware of. The court of public opinion does not demand the same standard of "proof". Like many others I'm of the opinion that Saint Arthur knew something and failed to intervene because FOOTBALL.

With the similarities I see in the two schools' handling of their situations I suspect the same is true for Wells. Not my cross to bear though and I'm grateful for that.

Please note, the "two schools" in this case are Baylor and Utah State, not Texas Tech.

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4 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Please note, the "two schools" in this case are Baylor and Utah State, not Texas Tech.

Duly noted. The coaches involved currently work at Mt Vernon High School and Texas Tech University.

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35 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

"Proof" is a high hurdle to clear and really only has a place in the courtroom. A number of complainants are still going to court in Art's case and yet no judgment has been rendered against him personally that I'm aware of. The court of public opinion does not demand the same standard of "proof". 

Fair enough, but I'm talking about "common sense" proof, like Art's "those are some bad dudes" tweet.  

All we have from Wells so far is a public statement worded vaguely enough that it sounds like it was written at the behest of a legal adviser, along with some hazy dates, the waters of which have been muddied by a journalist who publicly admitted they stated something that was factually incorrect.

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3 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Duly noted. The coaches involved currently work at Mt Vernon High School and Texas Tech University.

And it's an important point, because I don't think Tech has any liability for anything that hasn't been definitely proved to have happened and if it did, happened at some other institution.  The integrity of the university and athletic dept. is at stake, though, and that's no small matter. 

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7 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

And it's an important point, because I don't think Tech has any liability for anything that hasn't been definitely proved to have happened and if it did, happened at some other institution.  The integrity of the university and athletic dept. is at stake, though, and that's no small matter. 

I agree, I don't think Tech has any liability at all in this other than the potential fallout of having hired a head football coach who may have played a role in what happened at USU. Given the current atmosphere and the publics willingness to grab pitchforks it's not a place you want to defend or one that is long tenable if there is even a whiff of smoke. A good number of my immediate family are Tech grads and I don't want to see the school put in that unenviable position. Unfortunately if lawyers are involved they will create the mud to drag everyone else into. It's what they do.

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