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Making a Murderer: Part 2 (Netflix)


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I know there is some talk on the Netflix thread but thought it could have its own thread

 I’m through 4 episodes and I just want to say fuck the state of Wisconsin. 

Spoiler

Keeping Brendan Dassey in prison is atrocious. Fuck Wisconsin. Federal Judge overturns conviction and the state appeals the decision? How can any human with any sense of being a decent human being watch that confession tape and think he actually was a part of that crime. Fuck those cops. Fuck Ken Kratz. And Fuck any judge that upheld that shit. 

 

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His interview to the press after his client lost some motion to make video inadmissible. He basically stated, oh well, it’s going to be hard proving he didn’t do when he said he did do it. He was basically agreeing with the prosecution. 

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on episode five now. it's just as gripping as the first season. and the leo's, ada's, judges, and powers that be from wisconsin are some of the most detestable human beings in the planet. just evil people. i don't believe in hell, but it makes me feel good knowing gnat if it real, ken kratz will be having a pineapple shoved up his asshole for all of eternity. 

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ill be the one to come out and say it: fuck the majority of theresa halbach's friends and family, particularly her two loser brothers and this fucking attention-starved assclown "college friend" who is the living embodiment of this:

 

i feel terrible for her parents, but her brothers, and her friends, and the dumb fuck people of this retarded hick town in wisconsin can all eat shit. the complete obliviousness of every single one of these slack jawed yokels when they talk about all of the things that theresa is going to miss out on is astounding. HELLO. If two innocent people are locked up in fucking prison for their entire lives then what does that make them? The douchebag on the park bench literally says, "do i care about wheteher or not the real killer is found? ...i mean, yeah, i guess, but that's nothing to me because theresa is dead."  (insert gif of head banging against wall)

Edited by Goo Punch
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On Episode 6, didn't know this shit. 

Spoiler

Teresa broke up with Ryan Hillegas, and they contiued to be friends afterwards, but Ryan wanted to be more, then after she is killed, he moved into her apartment...that is fucking weird. 

It's crazy they didn't investigate other suspects. 

 

 

 

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Something I found interesting was the following:

The whole day planner thing.  Zellner makes good points that Hillegas couldn't have the day planner unless he somehow took it from the vehicle since she had it on her and was writing in it the day of the shoot. Just found that pretty fucking odd. 

At this point I still don't know who to fucking think is responsible for the murder.  I would like to think Avery and Dassey didn't do it, which I lean heavily towards Dassey having no involvment, but hell it would take a lot of fucking other people to know the truth and not say anything yet for the other theory she is throwing out there.....Dassey/Tadych kill her, Cops move the vehicle with Villegas help, Cops plant everything to make Avery the guy, Cops coerce Dassey into confessing.  

Let's get to Part 3 lol

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2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

On Episode 6, didn't know this shit. 

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Teresa broke up with Ryan Hillegas, and they contiued to be friends afterwards, but Ryan wanted to be more, then after she is killed, he moved into her apartment...that is fucking weird. 

It's crazy they didn't investigate other suspects. 

 

 

 

no sense investigating something that doesn't point to steve avery as her killer.

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damn, i'm gonna have to find some time to binge this.  watched episode 1 late friday night and thought there was no fall off from season 1. 

and yeah, from everything i've read about her, kathleen zellner does not fuck around.

Edited by BigOrange1
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im on ep 6 now.  I am absolutely fascinated by this whole thing.  As someone who once was the jury foreman on an armed robbery case, and saw a few people (I believe may have used race as a factor rather than facts) try and railroad a young black girl into 2-25 on an armed robbery charge I am really really really sensitive to people operating under the presumption of innocence, and making sure the prosecution absolutely proves beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the defendant.  So many things about this bug me to no end.  Dassey and Avery are both convicted using two very different accounts of what happened.  interesting.  The case the prosecution put on against Avery is proven untrue.  Shady evidence with zero logical explanation.  THe key found on the 6th search, in plain site, and contains only Avery's DNA.  the dna on the hood latch that seemingly has no real source, and concentration levels not feasible, and is not blood nor saliva is interesting.  two burn sites, the license plate issue is well documented.  That said, the hypothesis that the cops, or someone happened to break into his trailer at the moment he happened to be bleeding and they happened to get really lucky that he had left a pool of blood on his sink is also not really believable to me.  The framers just happened to get that lucky and have collection kits on them, get an amount of blood to spread around the car?  Maybe, but what luck and coincidence.  That said, the blood smear on the dash doesn't appear to have gotten there through normal methods of turning the key in the ignition.  Zero shot that key wouldn't have had some blood on it too.  THe boyfriend explanation of the broken light is interesting.  

I will say the Avery's are clearly PWT, and the guy absolutely appears to be a guy capable of who knows what.  If he killed her it absolutely would not shock me.  That said, I cannot at this point think this has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  No way the guy was smart enough to shackle this girl, stab her in the stomach, cut her throat in the house, then load her into her car, drive her around all over, burn her in barrel, spread the bones around in his property in a bon fire, and somehow leave no blood DNA in the bedroom where all this happened.  No way if he hand was bleeding enough to leave in smeared in the car there isn't his blood mixed in the back with her dead body and blood.  yet, it isn't anywhere in the back of the car.  None of that is logical, nor really possible.  The evidence simply does not support the murder in the way the prosecution sold it, and the way dassey stated.  I am the type who believes if he is guilty of this he should receive the death penalty asap.  I also believe if he has been locked up all these years as an innocent man framed by some cops pissed off they wrongly imprisoned him, and are getting sued by him, they need to be locked up the same sentence he has been given (life without parole).  Taking a persons freedom is a very serious thing.  we have to be extremely certain guilt is proven.  

I could watch Zellner analyze and do her thing 24/7.  That lady is committed to her craft, and I love that she seems to have an absolute no bullshit, DGAF where the evidence leads, she simply wants the truth even if it might proven her client guilty.  

Edited by pepper brooks
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I am 99% convinced that Steven Avery is guilty but I will watch Season 2 with an open mind.  Hopefully they didn't omit as much as they did in the first Series.

I was under the impression that S2 was focused on Brendan Dassey but that doesn't seem to be the case by the comments here.

 

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1 hour ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

I am 99% convinced that Steven Avery is guilty but I will watch Season 2 with an open mind.  Hopefully they didn't omit as much as they did in the first Series.

I was under the impression that S2 was focused on Brendan Dassey but that doesn't seem to be the case by the comments here.

 

I believe that Avery killed her, I also don't believe that the state provided enough evidence to lock him up for life.

Dassey never should've been convicted. It's a crime against humanity that he is still behind bars. 

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7 minutes ago, lateshow said:

I believe that Avery killed her, I also don't believe that the state provided enough evidence to lock him up for life.

Dassey never should've been convicted. It's a crime against humanity that he is still behind bars. 

I’m curious.  Did you do any further investigation after you watched the series like read the court transcripts? 

 

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I agree with the 7th circuit ruling that there's zero shot a reasonable person could watch Dassey's confession and think that wasn't coerced and the suspect wasn't lead.  When you also consider the kid is 16, and essentially retarded, there's just zero shot that confession was reasonable.  The fact that this confession was used to convict avery when we know 100% this confession is fantasy is pretty tragic.  Hard to believe Dassey is still behind bars given its clear his habeus rights were definitely violated.  

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2 hours ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

I am 99% convinced that Steven Avery is guilty but I will watch Season 2 with an open mind.  Hopefully they didn't omit as much as they did in the first Series.

I was under the impression that S2 was focused on Brendan Dassey but that doesn't seem to be the case by the comments here.

 

What convinced you 99% that Steven Avery is guilty?

 

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3 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

 

I could watch Zellner analyze and do her thing 24/7.  That lady is committed to her craft, and I love that she seems to have an absolute no bullshit, DGAF where the evidence leads, she simply wants the truth even if it might proven her client guilty.  

Yeah, I really liked that she didn't blame the jury but rather the information provided to them. I'm a huge believer of the jury system as well, even with it's flaws and games. 

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3 hours ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

I am 99% convinced that Steven Avery is guilty but I will watch Season 2 with an open mind.  Hopefully they didn't omit as much as they did in the first Series.

I was under the impression that S2 was focused on Brendan Dassey but that doesn't seem to be the case by the comments here.

 

Please bring your omission list so we can talk about the importance of these omissions.  Yes there were omissions.  Try condensing all that shit into 10 episodes and see if something doesn't get missed.  I don't believe there were intentional omissions, but hey we have another ten episodes and the swab from the hood latch is covered now.   

IMHO, I've never had a problem with a jury finding Steven Avery guilty.  Do I think he's innocent?  Yeah, probably.  But I can buy the argument that others think he is guilty and I am not 100% convinced he is innocent.  I don't buy that someone thinks he is 99% convinced he's guilty - but hey come back after season 2 and let us know if that is still that high.

But I do think that the State did a complete and total shit job against Avery and committed numerous inappropriate and unprofessional actions.  Kratz and Kachinsky's conduct disgusted me.

But what outrages/disgusts/angers me to no end is what happened to Brandon Dassey.  That kid had nothing to do with that murder.  The cops took advantage of a slow borderline mentally challenged 16 year old kid and his stupid parents.  The fact that a team of prosecutors saw that confession  and proceeded against him to a verdict, that the Wisconsin appellate courts did not throw it in the trash bin immediately, that the State kept fighting after losing both at the US District Court level and the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals initially and that the kid is still behind bars disgusts me.  

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13 minutes ago, deech said:

 

Please bring your omission list so we can talk about the importance of these omissions.  Yes there were omissions.  Try condensing all that shit into 10 episodes and see if something doesn't get missed.  I don't believe there were intentional omissions, but hey we have another ten episodes and the swab from the hood latch is covered now.   

IMHO, I've never had a problem with a jury finding Steven Avery guilty.  Do I think he's innocent?  Yeah, probably.  But I can buy the argument that others think he is guilty and I am not 100% convinced he is innocent.  I don't buy that someone thinks he is 99% convinced he's guilty - but hey come back after season 2 and let us know if that is still that high.

But I do think that the State did a complete and total shit job against Avery and committed numerous inappropriate and unprofessional actions.  Kratz and Kachinsky's conduct disgusted me.

But what outrages/disgusts/angers me to no end is what happened to Brandon Dassey.  That kid had nothing to do with that murder.  The cops took advantage of a slow borderline mentally challenged 16 year old kid and his stupid parents.  The fact that a team of prosecutors saw that confession  and proceeded against him to a verdict, that the Wisconsin appellate courts did not throw it in the trash bin immediately, that the State kept fighting after losing both at the US District Court level and the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals initially and that the kid is still behind bars disgusts me.  

they had to do that to Dassey.  THeir whole case was built on his confession that they raped her, stabbed her, cut her throat as she was bound to the bed in the house.  Of course, there is ZERO forensic evidence that occurred, but that seems irrelevant to the prosecution.  THey had to convict him on that story, or they have no case against avery.  one can argue they still have proven nothing against avery because we know the murder did not happen in the manner dassey says it happened.  

Edited by pepper brooks
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After season 1 I thought avery did it and the dassey shit was just straight bullshit

After Season 2 I am convinced Avery didn't do it and the Dassey shit makes me even more mad today than before. That kid over the phone sounds so upbeat and happy even though his life is over. unbelievable that the Supreme Court won't even hear his case. It's overly clear he is slow, he can barely fucking talk and probably Outlines his hand and makes it into a turkey for art day. The kid never should have been interrogated by those two dick cops.

Spoiler

The only thing I wanna know is are those other bones found off property in the Quarry Teresa's or just random bones and can they test those and find out? Everything else is circumstantial evidence. The Coroner not being allowed to work the case is a red flag, her being told by multiple officials to stand down then let Lt Link and Coburn on the property a dozen times? It's clear some major Bullshit went down.

Also in Season 1, I remember the initial video of them going into the avery trailer and I believe it was a girl shooting the video laughing saying "Ha you're going to jail". Shit like that makes me know after this season that this was a set up. Still wanna know about the bones. If they are her's which I guarantee they are because how many human bones with cut marks are laying around that are similar to the ones they dumped at his house? 

 

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Spoiler

They won't over turn anything off Zellner saying She thinks the ex bf did it and here's how or why. The bones is DNA proof, The blood is scientific proof, but did bobby dassey see her leave or didn't he or did that guy really see her car parked off the road won't matter unless they can get a new trial. I don't think Avery will ever get out. I think Zellner stuff about the ex, bobby, new witnesses are all spot on. The cell phone records and day planner stuff is fucking genius and I personally think he's innocent. The Front light being broken and probably my moving the car to go park it was interesting and MORE interesting was how the state denied them to test it! How can they deny her to test it? Can they deny anything they want?

 

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1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:
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They won't over turn anything off Zellner saying She thinks the ex bf did it and here's how or why. The bones is DNA proof, The blood is scientific proof, but did bobby dassey see her leave or didn't he or did that guy really see her car parked off the road won't matter unless they can get a new trial. I don't think Avery will ever get out. I think Zellner stuff about the ex, bobby, new witnesses are all spot on. The cell phone records and day planner stuff is fucking genius and I personally think he's innocent. The Front light being broken and probably my moving the car to go park it was interesting and MORE interesting was how the state denied them to test it! How can they deny her to test it? Can they deny anything they want?

 

Spoiler

She does not have an unlimited right to test it.  She can ask for post-conviction testing.  The state can agree or disagree.  She can then take that up with the Court.  She said that it frequently takes 5 years + to have the "fight" about the testing that is performed.  So she went with taking what they agreed she could have (the swab, the bullet, etc.) and she didn't fight it too much.  Now additional test results, additional witness testimony, or additional case information may result in her going back and saying - hey now I would like to test another piece of equipment which I think happens at some point if she has a more refined working theory.  

I think the bullet is a huge problem for the State and may get Avery a new trial by itself.  They testified this is the bullet that went through her head in the garage with her DNA on it.  The fact that there is no skull fragments + the redness was from the garage paint not blood + they replicated the wood on the bullet + they found wax on the bullet when the cops had gotten a DNA sample from chapstick.  That's really bad.

I think the computer issue may be a Brady violation also and a huge problem.  Bobby was listed as a Denny alternative suspect by the Defense.  The cop video shows the computer in Bobby's room not Brendan's.  Yet Kratz labels it as Brendan's computer.   Then they turn over 6 DVD's without the CD with the forensic analysis by the state's expert because it's given to Fassbender who holds it and never gives it to the Defense.  Then Kratz lies about nothing on the computer having evidentiary value despite having the report.   Sure those six DVD's contain the forensic analysis of the computer, but the Defense has no program to open it.  Even if Bobby isn't a suspect or is eliminated - he is the state's only witness who comes in and says she went back inside his trailer and was still there when I left. 

So I think both of those two separately could net a new trial for Avery.  

 

 

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Spoiler

http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2017/D06-22/C:16-3397:J:Hamilton:dis:T:fnOp:N:1983985:S:0

Link to 7th circuit of appeals decision. 

Still trying to find a link to that cunt Judge David Hamilton’s dissent opinion. 

Reading this shit makes me ragey

“After his arrest, the state public defender’s office ap‐ pointed private attorney Len Kachinsky to represent Dassey. Kachinsky met with Dassey on March 10, 2006. Dassey told Kachinsky that he was innocent, that his confession was not true, and that he wanted to take a polygraph test. After this meeting, despite Dassey’s claims of innocence, Kachinsky spoke to the media and described Dassey as sad, remorseful, and overwhelmed. The media reported that Kachinsky blamed Avery for “leading Dassey down the criminal path” and said that he had not ruled out a plea deal. R. 19‐39 at 11. Over the next few days, nearly all of Kachinsky’s work on Dassey’s case involved communicating with the local media, during which appearances he stated that “there is quite frankly, no defense,” and that all of the investigation techniques were standard and legitimate, despite the fact that Kachinsky had not yet watched the recorded police in‐ terview R. 19‐26 at 142, 144–45, 153, 170. During each of Ka‐ chinsky’s media appearances he indicated that Dassey was guilty and would likely accept a plea. Kachinsky testified at a post‐conviction relief hearing that one of his reasons for making these statements to the media was so that Dassey and his family would become “accustomed to the idea that Brendan might take a legal option that they don’t like. ...” R. 19‐26 at 136–37. Eventually the prosecutor sent an email to Kachinsky expressing concern about the pretrial media ap‐ pearances and referred Kachinsky to the relevant rules of ethics for attorneys.”

 

 

Edited by Neonmoon
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if avery killed her then why did so many dozens of leo's, prosecutors, and witnesses just fabricate *EVERYTHING*?? why lie about/completely fabricate EVERYTHING? none of it adds up. none of it. the prosecutions story of the crime is literally impossible- literally, there's a zero percent chance that the crime happened even remotely similarly to how the prosecution has not only alleged, but sworn up and down that it did. where do you come off saying he's guilty based on that? someone as slow and low functioning as steven avery doesn't need to be set up this badly if he's guilty. 

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9 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

the scenes with Avery's parents are just painful to watch.  lordy.  I need more evidence, analytics, less manitowac hillbillies.  

I went through the gamut of emotions in episode 8 when they went to go visit Steven for his birthday. Laughing at them not being able to hear each other ("huh?" "what you say?"), and then the idiot forgetting his wallet. And then I was annoyed with how demanding the mom was. And then I got all teary with the dad when he said "at least Dolores got to see him." 

Hit me in every feel in about 3 minutes.

Also, the end of episode 8. Holy shit, 


 

Spoiler

torture porn!

 

Edited by Tired of Lurking
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If anyone wants to read the motions filed on his behalf you can find them here.  

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/

 

at a minumim the post conviction relief is worth the read.  Reading the story Kratz spun, and knowing the evidence simply does not back any of it up is a tragic application of the justice system.  I absolutely believe avery is capable of this sort of crime.  I am also 100% convinced they didn't prove he did it during this trial.  

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Motion-for-Post-Conviction-Relief.pdf


 

 

 

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The state doubling and tripling down on these convictions is amazing. If they admit the dassey stuff and let him go it opens a new trial for Avery so they have to do whatever they can. 

How many times can they ask the Supreme Court to review this? Just once? 

I will say it again, no way can anyone watch season two and come away believing Steven Avery did this. I think he got framed big time. Zellner proves everything.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The state doubling and tripling down on these convictions is amazing. If they admit the dassey stuff and let him go it opens a new trial for Avery so they have to do whatever they can. 

How many times can they ask the Supreme Court to review this? Just once? 

I will say it again, no way can anyone watch season two and come away believing Steven Avery did this. I think he got framed big time. Zellner proves everything.

 

Yeah, I really felt like Avery did it after the first season and everything that followed. I'm through four episodes of season 4 and I have severe doubts about my previous impressions. Zellner is pretty impressive. 

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