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2022 Poker: Ship it!


Lurch
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6 minutes ago, Lurch said:


No, I don’t think I ever would. Kh might call, but everything else would fold. Alternatively, I might see him barrel the turn with a few other hearts.

We talked about it, and he said he would fold to any turn bet, so not leading out turned out to be the right call here. Until it wasn’t.

I’m curious if river had been a non-7/4 would he have called my overbet. I sized up to look like a bluff, but unfortunately priced myself out of ever folding to his shove.

It's hard for him to have a set or two pair on that turn, but I think those would call.

That's just a spot I find myself in too often in these multi-way nobody-ever-folds folds pots at 1/2 in San Antonio. If I'm out of position, turn the nuts on a four-flush board, check, and it always checks through.

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Apparently the owner told the city council that the dealers at TCH make an average of 42 dollars and hour. Is that possibly correct? I hear dealers at Choctaw and Vegas complain all the time about how little they make. 

I never asked any dealers how much they made but what is the average amount of hands dealt per hour in a cash game? 40? So if you take a guess at the tips assuming some chops and no tipping hands isn’t $42/hr possible or likely? I think TxSooner has some info on this from dealing part time.
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Seems about right, but at least at Bestbet they have to share like 10-15% of their tips with others (chip runners, cage, floor, etc)

They also have tipless downs in tourneys and sitting at empty/starting tables, so that dilutes it, too.

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14 hours ago, Lurch said:

They also have tipless downs in tourneys and sitting at empty/starting tables, so that dilutes it, too.

Here they have dealer appreciation extra chips with every buy in and a box for dealer tips where you cash out. With 90 entries x $5 and about 30 people doing the $10 add on at the first break and probably $100 in the tip jar, 5 tables the first 5 hours then 1 hour of 4, 1 of 3, 1 of 2 and 2 of 1 we have $850 / 36 = $24 an hour for the Monday night big o tournament. Never heard any dealer complain about dealing it, but they all usually only deal about an hour of it. 

Dealers are moving from all over the country to deal at the lodge, I wouldn't be surprised if they averaged out $40 an hour. Lots of $5 tips in the big plo games after big pots and $1 on most pots at the smaller games.

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20 hours ago, bigup2dahorns said:


I never asked any dealers how much they made but what is the average amount of hands dealt per hour in a cash game? 40? So if you take a guess at the tips assuming some chops and no tipping hands isn’t $42/hr possible or likely? I think TxSooner has some info on this from dealing part time.

Most of my dealing shifts were on weeknights, I would imagine that weekends would be a bit bigger. I also dealt before Lodge really was blowing up with huge games, which I also assume would result in bigger tips etc. I was usually in the $20-25/hr range.  The tourney tips would be only from the tip boxes/dealer add-ons, nothing directly from buyins. When I was dealing there we had a small base pay also, dunno what they are doing now on that, so it's not like tourneys were unpaid downs. 

I would def imagine it's possible for good and fast dealers to average in the $40/hr range, baking in that there are brush downs, break downs, dead spreads that do bring down the average, but also a down at a huge game with some drunk fish running hot can bring it way up. 

10 hours ago, Bookman said:

I think I'm playing way too passively out of position. It has to be costing me some value.

You (and me and almost everyone else) is almost certainly playing too much out of position. I def make my 3/4b sizing larger if I'm out of position to offset the positional disadvantage, but playing OOP sucks on ice overall. Part of the issue of getting too agg OOP is that then you end up just isolating yourself against the top of your opp's range AND being OOP.  That's why leading out OOP is very very rarely done, esp in raised pots. 

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$2/5

I open HJ ($1400) to $20 w 6s6c. BTN, SB ($1400) and BB call. $80 pot.

KdJdJh. Checks to me, I make it $40. BTN and SB call. $200 pot.

Qc. Checks around

6h. SB bets $60. I raise to $200. BTN folds. SB raises to $500.

It’s $300 to win $1200, but am I always beat here vs a competent opponent?

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Because a competent player will only be raising if:

1) they think they can’t win at showdown and can get us to fold, or
2) they want us to call with a worse hand than they have

It’s very unlikely that they would go with a bet fairly small on river then re-raise line as a bluff. Also Lurch can have a ton of monster hands here so a 3b bluff is pretty suicidal.

So he’s basically never bluffing what about option 2? There just aren’t hands he can realistically 3b the river for value that are worse than bottom boat. If he has straight he would certainly call and maybe even figure he’s good most of the time. But there are spots where you can be good most of the time but raising sucks bc if you raise then they just fold everything you beat and you get stacked the rest. Imagine a game where you get dealt a T, J, Q, K, or A as does your opponent. You get a king and bet. Your opp raises. You should call despite having second best possible hand. Your opp is heavily weighted to T and A with some J (should always just call Q). So if you reraise he just folds his Ts and 4b his As.

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22 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

Because a competent player will only be raising if:

1) they think they can’t win at showdown and can get us to fold, or
2) they want us to call with a worse hand than they have

It’s very unlikely that they would go with a bet fairly small on river then re-raise line as a bluff. Also Lurch can have a ton of monster hands here so a 3b bluff is pretty suicidal.

Say you had QJ, bet $60 on the river, and Lurch raises to $200. Do you 3-bet or just call?

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52 minutes ago, bigup2dahorns said:

 

i've mentioned before that  ~18 years ago I was on a  $2/4 limit table when that happened.  I was dealt, but folded early in that hand so no skin in the game.  

Harrahs in KC had a high hand of the day payout back then and the 3? guys left in the pot all (kinda legitly) tried to claim that they tied for that day.    Because back then they let you use 1 card to claim the high hand if you only needed 1 card.

management ruled otherwise

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1 hour ago, Bookman said:

Say you had QJ, bet $60 on the river, and Lurch raises to $200. Do you 3-bet or just call?

In this spot, probably just call. Lurch opened pre, c-bet flop, checked turn multiway and is now raising river. He can have KJ, QQ, JJ, KK, QJ (obv can't have JJ when I have QJ). Very unlikely to have J6, and may choose to check flop with 66.  So the only real possible hand he can have that can consider calling the river 3b is 66.

Now, this is knowing that Lurch is thinking and competent. If I sat down in a rando 1/3 game and this was my first hand, I'm shippity shipping QJ over the 200 for sure. 

In the actual hand, I'd bet solid money that SB had exactly QJ or KJ.  

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Worth mentioning that the calculus would be totally different if we are on the turn. Much more likely that someone could have a semi-bluff or a weaker hand like trip jacks trying to protect against straight/flush coming.

Say flop was KJJdd then turn is 6 and I have 66. Not folding to turn 3b here unless player is known mega passive. The percent of the population who can semi bluff with cards to come and/or protect a strong but not nutted hand on wet board is SOOO much bigger than the percent who can 3b bluff a river against a PFR on a KQJJx board.

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On 3/12/2022 at 11:56 AM, Lurch said:


He didn’t know either. He was just clicking buttons for about 30 mins leading into that hand

Agreed on last hand.  Earlier though he ran AK into AA on a King high board and didn't get stacked.  I mean I am all for piling on the guy, but he lost the minimum there I think.

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Heads up in a sit and go, about 20 BB on the table. You're the effective stack is 9 BB.

You're in the BB, and your opponent has been aggressive post flop, consistently barrelling all three streets when in position. You've made some big folds on terrible runouts.

Opponent limps the button, and you check with K of clubs 8 of hearts.

Flop is 8-8-3, diamond club club. You check, opponent bets 1/2 pot, you call.

Turn is 7 of clubs. You check, opponent bets 1/4 pot. Call or raise?

I called. River is 6 of clubs. You check, opponent bets 3/4 pot. It's 2/3 of my stack to call. Call or raise? What if you're deeper?

I called. He had A of hearts 4 of clubs.

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Don’t give results when asking for how to play a hand bc it taints the answers.

I would just call turn against the described villain since he likes to barrel, I want to let him do that. We have an absolute monster headsup, esp with super short stacks.

On river I would go ahead and jam bc he prob has to call off with any club or eight since we have basically nothing behind. If we are deeper just snap calling. Players usually aren’t calling big river raises with like the naked 9 of clubs on a paired four flush board.

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Place off Burnet and 183 has opened back up, Red Star Social, or something like that (formerly Palms, Austin Poker Palace). I checked it out for a bit Saturday, just long as enough to donk off 9 hundo, all in frakkin bomb pots… insert bad beat stories here.

They’re doing give aways and shit this week for their grand opening.

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Yep. Big E is a good dude. He's honoring all hours you prepaid for APP and Palms as well if you have any.

His main concern is keeping players happy knowing the money will follow, unlike some of the other places that are most concerned with money and don't really care about the players. You should support him if you can.

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Yep. Big E is a good dude. He's honoring all hours you prepaid for APP and Palms as well if you have any.
His main concern is keeping players happy knowing the money will follow, unlike some of the other places that are most concerned with money and don't really care about the players. You should support him if you can.

What Bob said, he’s good people for sure.

When are ya gonna be there, need some of that sweet sweet blacklab money.
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13 hours ago, blacklab said:

Yep. Big E is a good dude. He's honoring all hours you prepaid for APP and Palms as well if you have any.

His main concern is keeping players happy knowing the money will follow, unlike some of the other places that are most concerned with money and don't really care about the players. You should support him if you can.

APP became my favorite place, but the two times I stopped by that Palms place (both on the weekend) there was no action. I'd gladly play at that joint if they can at least replicate the traffic that used to come through APP. 

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