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Star Trek Discovery: Season 2 - It Got Good. Real Good. (Ep 1 inside)

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Those of you with CBS All Access, check out the Short Treks, the Pike/Number One/Spock ones just made me yearn even more for that incarnation of Pike and Co.  Anson Mount is perfect.  Rebecca Romijn is perfect as Number One.  Ethan Peck was perfect.

Fuck Discovery, Somewhat Fuck Picard (jury still out for me), and Probably Fuck Section 31, given the melodramatics behind it.

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Apep

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Agreed with the weak story line and few side plots, but I'd say the problem was more that they didn't know how to work with a serial than that they weren't episodic enough. Airiam is the easiest example, her actual intro and end shoehorned into too tight a space. In a better serial, e.g. Game of Thrones, her intro as more than a background character would have been in season 1 and the show runners would have been competent enough to make sure she got the occasional touch. Another example would be the end-of-the-David-Tennant-era, series-4-Doctor-Who level of campiness with all the goodbyes and dialoguing at the end of Season 2. Picard suffers from the same problem. After years of binging series, we don't need subplot lines wrapped up in neat, episodic bows. They can let the subplots stew and breathe over the course of a season (or seasons).

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If TNG were being filmed today, Best of Both Worlds would take up most of a season.  I hope that a Pike series returns to the TOS or TNG attitudes of everything being mostly wrapped up by the end of the show, and/or with the occasional two-parter (or a background plot that doesn't dominate everything).

I think that Discovery and Picard, because of their nature and their weekly release, come across as a lot more....plodding along and just moving the plot a tiny bit.

 

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Parliament

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If TNG were being filmed today, Best of Both Worlds would take up most of a season.  
 


I hadn't thought of that, but you're right.


I think that Discovery and Picard, because of their nature and their weekly release, come across as a lot more....plodding along and just moving the plot a tiny bit.


I'm 100% on board with Picard because the characters and story are better. It plods but everything else is rich enough it doesn't matter so much.
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Parliament

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Season 2 had great characters and dialog and an terrible plot. Like pure garbage of a plot.

Season 3 puts them out on their own, unencumbered by any tie-ins to the current universe, similar to TOS or Voyager. We that TOS, and we'll probably get Voyager.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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On 7/27/2020 at 1:09 PM, atomheartbevo said:

 And will give Lower Decks a shot then as well.

100% trying to capture TNG fans with nostalgia, but using a cartoon series with Wiley Coyote/Roadrunner-levels of buffoonery.

Blatantly name-checked the major TNG Enterprise-D characters AND Spock and Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock.

It could have been funny, but it felt like it was written in 5 minutes.

And of course, Alex Kurtman's name was on it.

My CBS sub runs out a week from today, so will give it one more go, but not going to keep a subscription for it.  Will pick it back up when I sub for Strange New Worlds.

 

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36 minutes ago, Apep said:

I watched it. The Orville exists and is way better. Hopefully the first episode was egregiously over-the-top because the writers haven't found their groove. Don't have much hope of that.

Exactly.  Don't have much hope, because it was just a series of gags strung together.  Minus the violence/gore, if you had told me this was the Star Trek animated series being done for Nickelodeon, I would have believed you, it was that simplistic and silly.

And they already blew the one big gag that could have been an actual story arc

Spoiler

The whole mother-daughter conflict.  If they had not revealed she was the Captain's daughter until later in the season, would have been more effective.

 

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Js1

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On 8/7/2020 at 3:36 PM, Apep said:

I watched it. The Orville exists and is way better. Hopefully the first episode was egregiously over-the-top because the writers haven't found their groove. Don't have much hope of that.

The Orville is so damn good

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49 minutes ago, RPM said:

CBS is going to have to throw another freebie or it hit a torrent for me to see S3. It's okay, but not worth paying for.

1. Wait for whole season to air

2. Sign up for a free trial by adding or removing a period in your gmail address

3. Binge it in 6 days 

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Maybe it's more for the Picard thread, but Red Letter Media/Mike and Rich are going through their top TNG episodes

Pretty spot on, although I might have shuffled a few in spots - might have had Best of Both Worlds higher up.

Good points about how, without the internet, you didn't know what the hell was going to happen when there was a cliffhanger, and you couldn't just grab a phone and look up some actor's contract or some reference that was made.

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DeepEastTexas

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10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Maybe it's more for the Picard thread, but Red Letter Media/Mike and Rich are going through their top TNG episodes

Pretty spot on, although I might have shuffled a few in spots - might have had Best of Both Worlds higher up.

Good points about how, without the internet, you didn't know what the hell was going to happen when there was a cliffhanger, and you couldn't just grab a phone and look up some actor's contract or some reference that was made.

Thanks for posting that. Interesting selections. As you said, some good points they brought up. 
 

I watched BOBW during its first run, not knowing it was the season finale. Prior to that, TNG had never ended with a cliffhanger. In fact, back then in syndication, it was typical to see several new episodes in a row, then one or two weeks of reruns, then another run of new episodes. I thought they would just finish the two parter the following week. When they didn’t, I just figured I’d wait two weeks to see the end.  I watched TNG every week until the end of July waiting for that second part. Had to wait three months. Different time. No internet, no “inside baseball” on tv series, no nothing to let you know what was going on in Hollywood. You had to buy a magazine like TV Guide or Starlog to get any insight. 
 

My top 5:

1. Best of Both Worlds - great pacing, high incident tension throughout, good script, good acting

2. Yesterday’s Enterprise - same as above. Fun episode.

3. Heart of Glory - in the first run, this was amazing. The first pure Klingon episode since ST restarted. There was huge anticipation by the fans to see how the Klingons would be portrayed now that they were allies.  Good story, great depiction of the Klingon race, both the fugitives and the last scene with the Klingon Cruiser. 

4. Tapestry - all the reasons mentioned in the YouTube clip. Just a good Picard and Q episode. Q’s speech at the end was arguably the best in the entire TNG series. 
 

5. The Perfect Mate - so many could have made this spot; Inner Light, Cause and Effect, Deja Q. But this episode had great acting, great chemistry between Janssen and Stewart, and an interesting ending. Ask me in a week, and any of the others could easily take this spot. Saw this one not long ago on a BBC America rerun. Loved it. 

 

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Parliament

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1. Best of Both Worlds - great pacing, high incident tension throughout, good script, good acting

I read once that Stewart wasn't sure he wanted to come back for Season 4, so they had to get in position to write him off, and make Riker the captain.  Part 1 was very Riker-centric, and it makes sense.  (And what a sad world we'd live in today if that had happened.)

2. Yesterday’s Enterprise - same as above. Fun episode.

I've said it before, it's my #1.  Better than any TNG movie

5. The Perfect Mate - so many could have made this spot; Inner Light, Cause and Effect, Deja Q. But this episode had great acting, great chemistry between Janssen and Stewart, and an interesting ending. Ask me in a week, and any of the others could easily take this spot. Saw this one not long ago on a BBC America rerun. Loved it. 

They left it open as to whether they may/may not have boinked, correct?

Usually left off of the top 10 lists is "Tin Man."  Very dark.

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On 8/12/2020 at 12:47 AM, DeepEastTexas said:

1. Best of Both Worlds - great pacing, high incident tension throughout, good script, good acting

2 hours ago, Parliament said:

I read once that Stewart wasn't sure he wanted to come back for Season 4, so they had to get in position to write him off, and make Riker the captain.  Part 1 was very Riker-centric, and it makes sense.  (And what a sad world we'd live in today if that had happened.)

2. Yesterday’s Enterprise - same as above. Fun episode.

I've said it before, it's my #1.  Better than any TNG movie

They had a good point - Best of Both Worlds parts 1 & 2 together would have made for the best TNG movie, including the theatrical films. 

I was kind of a casual fan of TNG when it first came out (although Dr. Crusher did it for me), but Yesterday's Enterprise firmly hooked me.  And it was like 14 episodes into Season 3.  Up until then I was watching, picked up a few books, had a few VHS tapes with some episodes, but I was mostly old-school TOS (and the TOS movies were still fresh).  Friends and I were into the TOS tabletop game from FASA, had all of the manuals, the game pieces, etc.

 

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DeepEastTexas

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13 hours ago, Parliament said:

1. Best of Both Worlds - great pacing, high incident tension throughout, good script, good acting

I read once that Stewart wasn't sure he wanted to come back for Season 4, so they had to get in position to write him off, and make Riker the captain.  Part 1 was very Riker-centric, and it makes sense.  (And what a sad world we'd live in today if that had happened.)

2. Yesterday’s Enterprise - same as above. Fun episode.

I've said it before, it's my #1.  Better than any TNG movie

5. The Perfect Mate - so many could have made this spot; Inner Light, Cause and Effect, Deja Q. But this episode had great acting, great chemistry between Janssen and Stewart, and an interesting ending. Ask me in a week, and any of the others could easily take this spot. Saw this one not long ago on a BBC America rerun. Loved it. 

They left it open as to whether they may/may not have boinked, correct?

Usually left off of the top 10 lists is "Tin Man."  Very dark.

Yeah, that was the interesting ending. Kamala mentioned that she “bonded” with Picard, and that she was still empathic enough to fake her “bonding” with her arranged husband. Commercial break was conveniently timed towards the end when Picard and Kamala were getting “close”. 
 

Her chaperone asks Picard how he deflected her advances, and Picard doesn’t answer him. 
 

Good episode 

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Apep

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The most recent Below Decks was more tame, focused, and generally better. Unlike the Orville, it doesn’t feel like TNG. It has some very funny bits, like the first Holodeck scene. The gag could work in the TNG universe, but it needs a subtle, straight man set up. 

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9 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I'd sign up for an entire series of H John Benjamin in a star trek series.

I love the idea that he's responsible for tribbles becoming what we know them as.

With his own DNA.

I would follow a series of him schlubbing around piss-ant Starfleet ships, crossing boundaries he shouldn't cross, reporting commanding officers he doesn't like, always on the verge of destroying whatever place he's at..

Star Trek: The Search for Edward's Red Stapler.

 

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I watched the third Lower Decks episode last night. There are some funny bits. I like the voice cast and the animation. The problem is that it lacks subtlety and feels more like a ham-handed deconstruction of the ST:TNG universe than a comedy set in that universe. "The Problem with Edward" is an excellent example of how to make comedy work while staying true to the feel of Star Trek.

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1 hour ago, Apep said:

I watched the third Lower Decks episode last night. There are some funny bits. I like the voice cast and the animation. The problem is that it lacks subtlety and feels more like a ham-handed deconstruction of the ST:TNG universe than a comedy set in that universe. "The Problem with Edward" is an excellent example of how to make comedy work while staying true to the feel of Star Trek.

All of this.

Watched the third LD as well, but it'll be my last until Strange New Worlds rolls out, as my sub ends this weekend.  And I like the cast and animation.

It does feel like a ham-handed deconstruction, but also that it was done by people not familiar with Star Trek.  It's like they sat down, looked through a list, say a "top 20" list, of TNG and TOS episodes, and then pumped these out.    

I guess maybe I was expecting John Scalzi's Red Shirts or something along parts of Orville focused on their version of the lower decks (although Orville turned more into TNG and less into a comedy).

If you took out the gore, and some of the situations oriented towards adult (like the concept of buffer time), and told me this was the animated Star Trek series they are doing for Nickelodeon, I'd absolutely believe it.

I did like the Gene Roddenberry callout, and the Miles O'Brien one, but the rest feel too forced and too fan-service-ish.

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Apep

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I guess my idea of PG is classic Ghostbusters. Not exactly a whole lot of actual adult humor, like we might see in Archer or Rick & Morty.

I don't see people dropping acid before ST:LD. That's the big difference. If they went for a more Superjail style, I could get behind it.

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This is screaming "LOOK AT US, YES, OUR WRITING SUCKS AND ALEX KURTZMAN SUCKS MORE THAN BOB STOOPS IN A TELEPHONE BOOTH FULL OF COCK, BUT LOOK AT US!"  If you want to make the cast more diverse or whatever, that's fine, but let it happen within a solidly-written storyline.   This feels like if S3 is shitty, that any criticism will be twisted into the critics being angry about the cast/characters and not the shitty writing, because that's exactly the kind of thing Kurtzman and Co. would do, and it is his people still calling a lot of the shots.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/entertainment/star-trek-discovery-nonbinary-transgender-characters/index.html

Quote

"Star Trek: Discovery" is boldly going where no "Star Trek" TV or film has gone before.

CBS All Access on Wednesday announced that Season 3 of "Star Trek: Discovery" will introduce non-binary and transgender characters, who will be the first in the franchise's history. 

"'Star Trek' has always made a mission of giving visibility to underrepresented communities because it believes in showing people that a future without division on the basis of race, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation is entirely within our reach," said Michelle Paradise, co-showrunner and executive producer, in a statement.

Quote

Gray is said to be "empathetic, warm and eager to fulfill his lifelong dream of being a Trill host, but he will have to adapt when his life takes an unexpected turn," according to a description shared by the network.

"We take pride in working closely with Blu del Barrio, Ian Alexander and Nick Adams at GLAAD to create the extraordinary characters of Adira and Gray, and bring their stories to life with empathy, understanding, empowerment and joy," Paradise added.

Going to be some interesting hot takes on this one.  

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8 minutes ago, Apep said:

I don't understand this first stuff. Trills move between male and female hosts. We've had androgynous and three-sex species on TNG. This seems like much ado about nothing.

Exactly.  There were no press releases months in advance of when Riker was fucking around with Soren.

But it’s Kurtzman’s baby    I can just see people bitching that it’s shitty, and the showrunner saying “oh, they just hate our diversity.”  Because when S1 do Discovery dropped, and fans bitched, they pulled the “oh, you’re just not ready for a black female lead!”   and fans were like “We had Sisko and Janeway, we just want a good story and good characters.”

Star Trek has always been diverse   It never needed to announce it, because when you’re diverse, people know it    Uhura, Chekov, that was some major diversity at a time when people were still fighting over civil rights, and when we were terrified of the Rooskies.  That was far bolder than this   

 

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Drew

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Okay I'm so glad they catapulted this crew into the future.  They can make their own path now and so far, that looks really interesting.

 

Also, as for Lower Decks.  It's entertaining.  I don't think it was meant to be some massive shift or anything...just be a funny show about characters that aren't really all that important.  It does that.  There have been some funny gags, and also some misses.  I think the more it's on the more it'll find it's footing(like Discovery did).

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1 hour ago, Drew said:

Also, as for Lower Decks.  It's entertaining.  I don't think it was meant to be some massive shift or anything...just be a funny show about characters that aren't really all that important.  It does that.  There have been some funny gags, and also some misses.  I think the more it's on the more it'll find it's footing(like Discovery did).

The bad thing is, it's going to be compared to the Nickelodeon Star Trek series.

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