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idigTexas

The Surly Road Cycling Thread

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Not intelligence - It's a matter of training. I don't have enough time to get in the saddle time for long successive days. But I can train for repeated short violent days. With alcohol. 

I will say that the south side of the Tourmalet is one of the most unattractive euro ski villages ever created. The climb from Luz is far more preferred and scenic, so maybe you want to train for the other direction (or perhaps you'll be so cross-eyed you won't care).

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1 hour ago, Txzen said:

Not intelligence 

 

Au contraire. The fact I even want to do this means I'm significantly more idiotic than you. I should be kicking back drinking every afternoon. I actually considered riding an Alpine stage, doing two transfer stages, then this. Then I sobered up.

 

1 hour ago, Txzen said:

so maybe you want to train for the other direction (or perhaps you'll be so cross-eyed you won't care).

 

It's significantly easier with the long downhill run into Pau, so I'm not completely dumb.

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57 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

eBike

I was planning on you riding in the wind for me the whole way.

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45 minutes ago, G650 said:

I was planning on you riding in the wind for me the whole way.

you picked the wrong Fred.  

I've put in 300km this calendar year.  quelle horreur!

annual goals are 5000km, which is clearly not going to happen

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19 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

you picked the wrong Fred.  

I've put in 300km this calendar year.  quelle horreur!

annual goals are 5000km, which is clearly not going to happen

Just round up every 501km to 1000 and you will be there in no time.

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3 minutes ago, G650 said:

Just round up every 501km to 1000 and you will be there in no time.

works on the ladies too, right?

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58 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

works on the ladies too, right?

So far, so good

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On 5/14/2018 at 2:46 PM, 52-80 said:

depends on the road - length, traffic density, nominal speed, location context (e.g. is it the only connection to a low-traffic winding rural road?).  

 

its a give and take.  riders have a right to the road.  that said, if someone rides in route where they are often in conflict with vehicular traffic... then they have chosen very poorly.

This.  There are a number of factors that determine where I ride.  I do not know anyone who prefers to ride in those situations.  Sometimes a cyclist cannot reasonably avoid such situations any more than a driver could.    

Edited by idigTexas

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Shit, I missed that discussion.

 

There are a lot of factors going into where and where not to ride. The best way to alleviate this is to become a big proponent of bike infrastructure. Simply doing paved shoulders makes a massive difference at very little added cost.

 

People who gripe about bikes on the road always think of roadies when having this argument, but the real issue is people whose only means of transport is a bike.

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God bless Carlos and amigos.

 

who else is committed to delivering a piping hot burrito at 11pm at night

 

delivery-guy-nyc-on-bike-590.jpg

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Recently started riding and completed a 68 miler this weekend.  I suck at going uphill.  I've always known my core strength is shit.  Anyone have a strength training regimen that would help?  The internet is all over the place on strength training for cyclists.  Wondering if anyone had any recommendations.

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My too favorite quotes : 'It never gets easier, you just get faster' (Greg Lemond), 'Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades' (Eddy Merckx). 

I have the body of a Belgian Spring Classic Rouleur, but my spirit animal is an 100 pound flyweight Spanish climber (my Basque climbing name is 'Patxi'). That means that I too, suck. Nothing gets you better than just doing it as much as you can. I think there's good evidence that finding a nice long tempo climb (say 4-6%) for training is great for cardio, particularly if you work in some intervals. That said, nothing gets you in better climbing shape than regularly doing a nice hard climb. I know many people bring in deadlifts, squats, and sled workouts to their training. I just try to ride more.

Obviously, drop as much weight from your body as possible. You didn't mention what sorts of hills give you problems. Gears and cadence are important - I'd argue that most people in my neck of the woods (SF Bay Area) are well-served by a compact front crank and a slightly higher cadence rather than mashing the pedal in a higher gear.

You may find that some hills will just always be a problem. No matter what sort of shape I'm in, once it gets beyond 10% (and sustained), I'm in pure survival mode. 

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2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Recently started riding and completed a 68 miler this weekend.  I suck at going uphill.  I've always known my core strength is shit.  Anyone have a strength training regimen that would help?  The internet is all over the place on strength training for cyclists.  Wondering if anyone had any recommendations.

its all bollocks.  i mean, yeah core strength is good - you can maintain better aero position on the bike.  and it improves overall fitness.  having some strength regime is good for your overall health, etc etc.  

but climbing - and i mean sustained gradients that takes minimum 5 minutes to complete, more like 10, 15 minutes - is all cardio.  

those big muscular dudes who win track sprints, theyre good for punching it up a little hill in 30 seconds, but anything longer than that requires sustained cardio output.  

you cant do squats and leg presses with nonstop motion for 10 minutes can you?  

a quick way to improve is to do high intensity interval training.  theres thousands of different programs or different intervals out there, but essentially ride really fucking hard, rest a bit, ride really fucking hard, and repeat.  say, 30 seconds of all-out sprinting, 2 minutes of recovery, 30 seconds of sprinting, etc.  thats the gist of it

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All of the above. The TL;DR version is ride a lot. Like a fucking lot.

 

I do core in the offseason, swiss ball stuff, twists etc. Gives you good stability and power through your glutes. But you need miles for your aerobic engine. VO2max intervals like 5280 prescribes are great for raising FTP, highly recommended. But you need to ride miles  

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22 hours ago, 'stache said:

Recently started riding and completed a 68 miler this weekend.  I suck at going uphill.  I've always known my core strength is shit.  Anyone have a strength training regimen that would help?  The internet is all over the place on strength training for cyclists.  Wondering if anyone had any recommendations.

I'm a big dude, but climb relatively well.  I have three words for you.  Spin, spin, spin.  Forget about trying to climb while standing, you'll use up your legs.  Just spin an easier gear.  As you gain fitness, you will be able to spin bigger gears, and those little rises that are making you lose your breath will seem like flats.   

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1 hour ago, idigTexas said:

I'm a big dude, but climb relatively well.  I have three words for you.  Spin, spin, spin.  Forget about trying to climb while standing, you'll use up your legs.  Just spin an easier gear.  As you gain fitness, you will be able to spin bigger gears, and those little rises that are making you lose your breath will seem like flats.   

My endurance is fine.  I don't run out of breath.  I've been running for several years now.  My muscles literally can't push through climbs, even on the lowest gears.  I need to do some serious strength training.  I'm still new to cycling so I think practice will help, but I'm adding HIIT training to work on my core and leg muscles in particular.

Edited by 'stache

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6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

My endurance is fine.  I don't run out of breath.  I've been running for several years now.  My muscles literally can't push through climbs, even on the lowest gears.  I need to do some serious strength training.  I'm still new to cycling so I think practice will help, but I'm adding HIIT training to work on my core and leg muscles in particular.

The issue is your muscle endurance isn't fine. 

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26 minutes ago, 'stache said:

My endurance is fine.  I don't run out of breath.  I've been running for several years now.  My muscles literally can't push through climbs, even on the lowest gears.  I need to do some serious strength training.  I'm still new to cycling so I think practice will help, but I'm adding HIIT training to work on my core and leg muscles in particular.

If you're not running out of breath, downshift until you are.  If there are no more gears, then you are gear limited.

 

A 300w output at 80rpm -- which is a decent level if you can sustain it on a climb -- means you're putting around 30kg / 60lbs of pressure on the pedal....which in terms of leg strength is nothing at all

 

 

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13 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

If you're not running out of breath, downshift until you are.  If there are no more gears, then you are gear limited.

 

A 300w output at 80rpm -- which is a decent level if you can sustain it on a climb -- means you're putting around 30kg / 60lbs of pressure on the pedal....which in terms of leg strength is nothing at all

 

 

If an untrained newb is putting out 300w sustainably, they need to aim for the WT.

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3 hours ago, G650 said:

The issue is your muscle endurance isn't fine. 

This.

I'm on singletrack a great deal more than pavement, so take this with a grain of salt, but my legs are capable of a great deal more late in the season than they are early. A lot of that is weight, some of it is cardio, and the rest is muscle endurance. Just as with you must be at elevation to train for elevation, I don't believe there's a way to properly train for extended climbs other than to ride them as often as possible.

Case in point: I haven't been spending as much time on climbs lately--mostly been riding flats. My lungs are still there, and my weight is about the same, but I can promise you my legs will be shot after the first extended climb I hit this week.

Give consideration to what others have said regarding cadence, as well, especially if you have the lungs for it. I was always a grinder, but over the past few years, I've focused on shifting to an easier cog and maintaining my spin, especially for protracted climbs.

For steep, snappy ups, I still feel it's more efficient to hit them spinning in a high gear and then start mashing about halfway up the slope once you're no longer spun out, but using an easier gear and higher cadence has helped me with the longer climbs.

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42 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

This.

I'm on singletrack a great deal more than pavement, so take this with a grain of salt, but my legs are capable of a great deal more late in the season than they are early. A lot of that is weight, some of it is cardio, and the rest is muscle endurance. Just as with you must be at elevation to train for elevation, I don't believe there's a way to properly train for extended climbs other than to ride them as often as possible.

Case in point: I haven't been spending as much time on climbs lately--mostly been riding flats. My lungs are still there, and my weight is about the same, but I can promise you my legs will be shot after the first extended climb I hit this week.

Give consideration to what others have said regarding cadence, as well, especially if you have the lungs for it. I was always a grinder, but over the past few years, I've focused on shifting to an easier cog and maintaining my spin, especially for protracted climbs.

For steep, snappy ups, I still feel it's more efficient to hit them spinning in a high gear and then start mashing about halfway up the slope once you're no longer spun out, but using an easier gear and higher cadence has helped me with the longer climbs.

 

Yeah. It is difficult to explain muscle endurance to someone outside of cyclists and cross country skiers. There's just not really anything else we do that works that way. Even marathoners and distance swimmers only share some similarities. 

People immediately relate to traditional strength training, and while it is certainly a good thing and complementary, it won't give muscle endurance. Being strong for 20 reps is inconsequential to a road rider. At a 85 to 90 rpm cadence, you are going to turn the pedal 10,000 times for a two hour ride. Are you going to train by doing 10,000 squats? Even just using body weight, obviously not. Overload training is how you get better at muscular endurance, just as it is in strength training, so you really just have to ride more and more, this is no other way about it.

 

The cadence thing is big too. I was totally a masher coming from mountain bikes. Took me years to get my cadence up. But if you are indeed fit, up the cadence and use your aerobic engine. The best pros in the world spin 100 rpm on climbs for this very reason.

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21 hours ago, 'stache said:

My endurance is fine.  I don't run out of breath.  I've been running for several years now.  My muscles literally can't push through climbs, even on the lowest gears.  I need to do some serious strength training.  I'm still new to cycling so I think practice will help, but I'm adding HIIT training to work on my core and leg muscles in particular.

Just keep riding dude.  Strength training isn't going to do anywhere near as much for your leg muscle endurance.  

I've been an avid road cyclist for about 5 years, and practice is key.  The more you ride hills, the easier they get, and it's the fastest way to make them easier.

I ran into a similar issue picking up single track this spring, as I encountered grades that blow away anything you'd hit with a road bike.  I've dropped some pounds and kept at it, and it's gotten better.  I remember starting to ride hills on a road bike being the same way.

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All good advice, thanks. I’m going to add some core training because I need to improve my overall strength and shed about 8 pounds, but it’s heartening to know that practice will help climb hills. I plan to do one big ride a week. Signed up for another fondo in August.

 

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47 minutes ago, 'stache said:

All good advice, thanks. I’m going to add some core training because I need to improve my overall strength and shed about 8 pounds, but it’s heartening to know that practice will help climb hills. I plan to do one big ride a week. Signed up for another fondo in August.

 

Good shit. Riding is the best stress relief, and you can't go wrong working on your core.

 

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The new BMC Roadmachine X coming out this fall has totally caught my eye. Was thinking maybe a Ridley X Trail, but this thing is the hotness.

 

BMC-Roadmachine-X_aluminum-1x-endurance-

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5 hours ago, 'stache said:

All good advice, thanks. I’m going to add some core training because I need to improve my overall strength and shed about 8 pounds, but it’s heartening to know that practice will help climb hills. I plan to do one big ride a week. Signed up for another fondo in August.

 

If you can, squeeze a quick and efficient hard training effort in the middle of the week.  Or get any cheap turbo trainer to do it at home.  Even 30-45 minutes will do.  

 

Cuz if you ride long, but not hard, once a week, it actually won't do much.  

 

I did just the casual weekend group ride 1 season, and did the ad hoc training regime the next, and the difference is dramatic.

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Agree with this - even a short ride mid-week will do wonders. I'd recommend signing up for something like The Sufferfest and getting a trainer - it makes it even easier to add in those additional workouts.

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Fo shizzle.

I have been a Trainer Road users since it's inception. Even as someone who already rode, the structure and doing defined hard intervals made an obscene amount of difference. As someone just starting, even the low volume plan will work wonders. Just substitute their weekend workout with your long ride and you are golden. They have various one of workouts as well, just pick some VO2max workout and get on it.

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64K for Father's Day. 

I'm a poet and I didn't even realize it.

After I started getting lightheaded after riding, I started putting salt in my water. OMG it's so much better.  And I realized something. The entire "Gatorade" billion dollar thing is just based on putting some fucking salt in your water. Also Gatorade tastes like shit.

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^ I saw this on reddit the other day. Apparently it's from 2013. They did arrest someone, but no info on whether they actually got convicted.

 

Fucking piece of shit humans out there y'all.

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I only ride my road bike once a month or so, because i prefer the mtb.  But I think about shit like this happening every time I'm on it.  Years back, there was someone shooting roadies with a bb gun on southwest parkway.  don't know if they ever caught him.

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Oof. Had a full on blow the fuck up today about 30k into my ride. Tried to skate by without eating enough this morning, then decided to push a sweet spot interval workout into threshold intervals. Oh, and 100 degrees out. Had to limp my ass home.

 

I haven't experienced that in years, basically since I learned to fuel properly. Apparently today I forgot.

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29 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

a blood bag will fix that

Yeah, my medical staff is lacking.

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