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Captain Ron

USWNT 2020

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I couldn't find a thread through 3 pages, so sorry if there isn't one.

The US Women's National Team continues to do more for soccer than the men. All of it last week.

First a quick rewind, for those that forgot the USWNT sued US Soccer last year for equal pay. That has been going on since. It came to a head when court documents broke last week during the She Believes Cup that showed US Soccer's argument was basically the men are more skilled than the women:

This thread has a few choice excerpts so follow it and take a look. Since it came from US Soccer, it was seen as the view of Carlos Cordeiro, President of US Soccer. The same one we debated about for a long as time during his election in 2018.

That didn't go over very well with the Women's team and during warmups for the Cup Final on they had their shirts on inside out

uswnt-wore-inside-out-shirts-protesting-

uswnt-wore-inside-out-shirts-protesting-

This sparked an idea and you can now buy a shirt just like this: https://breakingt.com/products/4-stars-only

This caught a lot of attention. And forced Cordeiro to apologized the day of the game. But the damage was done.

 

Friday Cordeiro resigned:

US Soccer: Carlos Cordeiro Announces Resignation as U.S. Soccer President

WashPo: Carlos Cordeiro resigns as president of U.S. Soccer

SI: Why U.S. Soccer President Carlos Cordeiro Had to Resign After Disgraceful Defense in USWNT Case

And the women keep getting more done.

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Oh yeah and they also qualified for the Olympics with a pretty good run through the qualifying tournament out scoring their 4 opponents 21-0 (Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico and Canada).

The She Believes Cup was a little closer (England 2-0, Spain 1-0, Japan 3-1).

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Cordeiro seems like an idiot.  The women's case is also pretty spurious imo.

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Team is a money-making machine and no reason to expect that to change even as the rest of the world catches up talent-wise. Coke, Visa, Budweiser and Deloitte publicly took the players' side last week. There is a NASCAR-like passion and loyalty around the country, including a lot of wealthy shoppers.

I saw tweet a while back that FIFA was considering holding the women's WC every two years, which I think would be a great idea. But I never saw any follow up and obviously the entire sport is sidelined worldwide for a bit now.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, WBT said:

Cordeiro seems like an idiot.  The women's case is also pretty spurious imo.

Us Soccer had/has an argument regarding enticing pros who make much more money from their clubs to risk injury away from the clubs while playing in Central American hotspots on crappy pitches. They also could bring up TV payout and World Cup/ Copa America payouts, and having to financially support the Women’s League. 

A non-starter argument was that men are physically superior. This was an diotic argument. 

Just like women & men ~deserve equal play at most tennis tournaments, but at the grand slam events, the men play best 3 out of 5 vs 2 out of 3 played by the women, so the men are paid the same as the women for much more work... which brings in more TV revenue... which pays the bills. Not really fair to the men. 

Edited by Napoleon

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The sketchy countries/pitches argument is probably weaker than the genetics argument. The women likely face harassment and dangerous conditions in pretty much any country they visit, and I can't imagine the facilities aren't worse than the men.

The crux is definitely the fact that the men's game worldwide is far more lucrative and you shouldn't punish USMNT for taking the money. But nothing says some of that can't be used to elevate the pay of the women to something that can be labeled as "equal". They're all under the US Soccer umbrella.

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Is not about safety, it’s about economics. The men have much better options through private clubs and really don’t need to ever play for a national team to have a long lucrative career. That is not the case for the women as the national team is basically the only game in town if they want to make 6 figures and even supports/funds their only options for private employment for the women in this country as well. It’s feeling, not facts and the women basically want a cut of the men’s cash and use their on field success vs the men’s as justification to do so.....and the are offended when USA soccer makes the same claim. 

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Posted (edited)

US Soccer already subsidizes the entire women's pro league and the top players are on salary rather than strictly per appearance fees.  The men have higher bonuses (provided they ever actually qualify for anything again) but that's because the FIFA TV rights are exponentially higher for the men.

But all the women have to do is say "equal pay" and the pr battle is won, facts be damned.

Edited by WBT

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16 hours ago, Bartles said:

The sketchy countries/pitches argument is probably weaker than the genetics argument. The women likely face harassment and dangerous conditions in pretty much any country they visit, and I can't imagine the facilities aren't worse than the men.

The crux is definitely the fact that the men's game worldwide is far more lucrative and you shouldn't punish USMNT for taking the money. But nothing says some of that can't be used to elevate the pay of the women to something that can be labeled as "equal". They're all under the US Soccer umbrella.

With the exception of maybe Mexico, I don’t think that the women play any games south of the border. The other teams know that they are going to lose, so they choose to play the USWNT in the USA and take the payday. The women are safe as fuck. 

That’s a huge difference. Their life is cake once they’re on the team. 

*If someone can show otherwise, that’s fine, but I’m on my phone and don’t care to look it up. I just can’t recall the women ever traveling to a developing country for a qualifier. 

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No one in CONCACAF would care enough to show up and harass them anyway.  Maybe in Europe.

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Good points, I don't know where they've played but it makes sense they would cash in by bringing teams up here. Though I would think the USMNT could do the same thing - wouldn't Bolivia or whoever want the paycheck for the men as well? 

I do recall the women having to cancel games pretty recently because of field conditions like astroturf that was coming apart.

I'm no expert, I just smell a rat in regards to how much value USWNT obviously generates for US Soccer compared to what they're paid. Also not sure what harm it would cause to create a structure that can at least be labeled "equal" for the two national teams in terms of salary. It probably wouldn't be dollar-for-dollar because the men's sport is larger and they have to play more games, travel, etc. But to create some sort of equal structure probably wouldn't cost a ton...it's like 20-25 players.

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Posted (edited)

As I understand the men only get paid per appearance?  If they don’t participate or are passed over they are not compensated?

Are younger or better players passed up due to those that make the team not wanting to give up the salary and benefits?  How much turnover year to year is their on the woman’s team and is it due to a lack of challengers or something else (assuming it’s low)?

Seems odd that in a sport like tennis athletes peak early and its an exception to play at the highest level around 30.  The sports seem similar in their need for physicality, why do we have so many mature players on the highest level team in the world?

Edited by ChickenSandwich

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1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Seems odd that in a sport like tennis athletes peak early and its an exception to play at the highest level around 30.  The sports seem similar in their need for physicality, why do we have so many mature players on the highest level team in the world?

No chemistry is required on a tennis court, at least not in singles. In doubles, where chemistry is required, the top teams tend to have older players. 

Hope that clears it up for you. 

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On 3/19/2020 at 7:04 AM, Bartles said:

Good points, I don't know where they've played but it makes sense they would cash in by bringing teams up here. Though I would think the USMNT could do the same thing - wouldn't Bolivia or whoever want the paycheck for the men as well? 

I do recall the women having to cancel games pretty recently because of field conditions like astroturf that was coming apart.

I'm no expert, I just smell a rat in regards to how much value USWNT obviously generates for US Soccer compared to what they're paid. Also not sure what harm it would cause to create a structure that can at least be labeled "equal" for the two national teams in terms of salary. It probably wouldn't be dollar-for-dollar because the men's sport is larger and they have to play more games, travel, etc. But to create some sort of equal structure probably wouldn't cost a ton...it's like 20-25 players.

I believe this game was to take place in Canada.  The women argued that the men wouldn't be asked to play on this type of surface.  That's not entirely true.  JerryWorld, for one, was falling apart during one of the games there.  I also distinctly recall a qualifier that the men played in one of the Caribbean countries on which the field had no grass and massive puddles of water throughout parts of the surface.  The women also don't have to play in venues where they're getting piss and batteries thrown at them.

 

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