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General Scouting Thread - BSA + GSA

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In this context, it's probably worthwhile to understand some aspects of bankruptcy.  Most people think that bankruptcy is needed or filed when an entity is insolvent, that is its liabilities exceed its assets.  And that's probably true here, especially considering the unknowable extent of liability for the sexual abuse claims.  But it doesn't inevitably follow that a company that files bankruptcy is insolvent.
Another aspect is that it imposes an order on the chaos of dozens, hundreds, or thousands of claims coming in through lawsuits filed at unpredictable times in unpredictable locales with unpredictable outcomes.  Now, most/all claimants will have to come through the bankruptcy court to establish liability and compensation.  This is less costly for both BSA and the claimants, in most or a lot of cases.
Finally, everyone thinks of bankruptcy as a way to stiff creditors or claimants, forcing them to take less than they're owed.  And that is true.  But without bankruptcy, it's first-come, first-served as far as payout is concerned.  Those that come later may get stiffed entirely, while the first claimants get paid dollar-for-dollar.  I don't think anyone would consider that fair.
Considering that tort compensation/damages have an element of arbitrariness, it's not grossly unfair to have all the claimants come to the table and divvy up the assets in an equitable manner.
So yeah, bankruptcy sucks for BSA.  It sucks for the victims.  But it's an attempt to spread out the suck so no one has to bear it all.
I would expect this to end by BSA forming some kind of pool or trust of funds through which victims can make claims for compensation.  That's going to strip their assets down close to nothing and they'll have to build up going forward.  It's a strain, but it probably beats most of the alternatives.

As a bankruptcy attorney, all of this. Everyone gets a haircut and it may not be pretty, but hopefully the victims get something and the program carries on having learned some very hard lessons.

On a brighter note, I was talking to our District Executive last night about the biggest fundraiser of the year for national which took place earlier this week. There was great concern that there would be less turnout given the bankruptcy. On the contrary it was full and they raised a lot of money. That’s a hopeful sign that donors believe the current organization is acting in a responsible way towards the victims and its’ own finances.

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Btw, no one asked at the PTA meeting, but I used it as an opportunity to talk briefly about YPT and all the safeguards Scouting currently used to provide a safe environment for Scouts and Scouters to grow in.

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At our Eagle Court of Honor for 3 of our scouts. Incredible watching them grow from young boys to young men.
ccf1445543de6b151092d76175074f2f.jpg

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On 2/21/2020 at 6:47 AM, Chad Fuck said:


As a bankruptcy attorney, all of this. Everyone gets a haircut and it may not be pretty, but hopefully the victims get something and the program carries on having learned some very hard lessons.

On a brighter note, I was talking to our District Executive last night about the biggest fundraiser of the year for national which took place earlier this week. There was great concern that there would be less turnout given the bankruptcy. On the contrary it was full and they raised a lot of money. That’s a hopeful sign that donors believe the current organization is acting in a responsible way towards the victims and its’ own finances.

I never knew, or asked, that bk was your area.  Cool.

I think most people understand that it's not a death knell for the debtor, most of the time, but I also figured some surly bastard might come along and sling some feces for trying to take the easy way out (that happened recently on one of the plant explosion threads).

I heard one of the plaintiff's lawyers on NPR the other day that was asked about the filing and she gave a good explanation of the benefits to the creditors, as well as the drawbacks to them and was remarkably even-handed and even-keeled about it.  I didn't really expect a full-on Avenatti, but I was impressed with her.

Figured I'd relay some of that message for those of us with Scout affinity.

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I heard one of the plaintiff's lawyers on NPR the other day that was asked about the filing and she gave a good explanation of the benefits to the creditors, as well as the drawbacks to them and was remarkably even-handed and even-keeled about it.


I also heard the piece & was equally impressed that she explained the potential benefits of bankruptcy filing & how it can help those affected by old, shitty BSA National policy.

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I never knew, or asked, that bk was your area.  Cool.
I think most people understand that it's not a death knell for the debtor, most of the time, but I also figured some surly bastard might come along and sling some feces for trying to take the easy way out (that happened recently on one of the plant explosion threads).
I heard one of the plaintiff's lawyers on NPR the other day that was asked about the filing and she gave a good explanation of the benefits to the creditors, as well as the drawbacks to them and was remarkably even-handed and even-keeled about it.  I didn't really expect a full-on Avenatti, but I was impressed with her.
Figured I'd relay some of that message for those of us with Scout affinity.


I did straight corporate bk for three years straight out of law school. Now it’s a corollary to my primary plaintiffs practice but I have my finger in it everyday. I was in BK court in NC just last week. In any case, what the Scouts are proposing looks a whole lot like a Section 524g trust. That sticks in a lot of plaintiffs attorneys craws, for good reason. But the BK Code does contain some elegant solutions to some thorny problems.

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9 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 


I did straight corporate bk for three years straight out of law school. Now it’s a corollary to my primary plaintiffs practice but I have my finger in it everyday. I was in BK court in NC just last week. In any case, what the Scouts are proposing looks a whole lot like a Section 524g trust. That sticks in a lot of plaintiffs attorneys craws, for good reason. But the BK Code does contain some elegant solutions to some thorny problems.

 

Given today's Congress, you wonder where and how the hell they came up with some of our laws.  A lot of them are pretty good and ingenious, considering how many of them are absolute crap.

I don't know the history of the bankruptcy code other than the Article I/III snafu.

The most recent patent act (1952) was written by an appellate judge having jurisdiction over patent matters and a long-time employee of the patent office.  They did a remarkable job.

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Given today's Congress, you wonder where and how the hell they came up with some of our laws.  A lot of them are pretty good and ingenious, considering how many of them are absolute crap.
I don't know the history of the bankruptcy code other than the Article I/III snafu.
The most recent patent act (1952) was written by an appellate judge having jurisdiction over patent matters and a long-time employee of the patent office.  They did a remarkable job.


Well, there’s a gaping loophole in the Code that Congress needs to fix or there will be no way for individuals to collect against big corporations, but that’s a topic for another thread instead of clogging up this one.

In Scouting news, I’m going to get whip cream pies in the face at the Pack meeting tonight as a reward to those who had the highest popcorn sales. Poncho packed.

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On 2/20/2020 at 3:49 PM, Armybrat said:

Mortgaging Philmont to pay for settlements is mind boggling. 
 

As is grown men fucking little boys.

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FYI to you "family campers" who use the big tents, Hiker Direct has some nutso pricing right now.

2 room / vertical sidewalls (easy stand up space), retails for approx. $ 280 through Sportsman's Guide , Hiker Direct for $ 140.

41SfXI-EXSL._SL450_.jpg

 

There's all sorts of fun stuff on their splash page.

If your Pack does a Spring camping trip, get one of these boogers.

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New daily deals, this week only.

& YES!!! YESS!!! I admit it - I am addicted to backpacks! I so wanna buy this however I so do NOT need it @ all!!fb90209ebb0e7a1af534307b58c4c817.jpgc3fcf1cf036a4d3c237615e5402b6816.jpg

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Sacred Springs Camporee will probably be canceled.

What's going on in your Units?

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Looks like our "camp card" fundraiser is kaput.  I assume all meetings are cancelled/postponed since the schools will be closed.

This. Circle 10 cancelled everything through the end of the month. Our Pack has followed suit. No activities at all. We will reconsider in a couple weeks.

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On 3/13/2020 at 1:24 PM, ROFL BOX said:

What's going on in your Units?


Just found out this morning, as expected, our Blue & Gold and last camping trip were canceled.   Well, we may do B&G online through Zoom or something.  

We still have some kids in our den who have not completed their requirements.  Their parents are getting reminders, and most have the time to get it done by next week (our normal cutoff for advancement requirements).    The deadline has been known for months, and reminders sent out monthly on what kids were missing what achievements.  

Any advice for nudging parents who should put a few hours into helping their kid move up to the next rank, but aren’t?  The parents have been getting reminders, and the info on what to do.  Hate to see some of these kids not advance through no fault of their own.  

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Welp, just got an email stating that the advancement cutoffs were extended all the way to July 31 for Cub Scouts and Webelos.    If our pack extends, my kid will have almost all of the Tiger belt loops.   

Quote

For Cub Scouts, the BSA will allow parents and other adults in the Cub Scout’s family to sign off on Webelos and Arrow of Light requirements through July 31, 2020. Normally, only a den leader may sign off on these requirements.

Also, Cub Scouts can continue to work on their current den’s advancement through July 31, 2020. This gives extra time for Cub Scouts to complete their badge of rank; if they earn their badge of rank prior to July 31, 2020, they may advance to the next rank.

Eagle Scouts can get an extension through September, providing they meet the requirements (read the article below), and it has to be shown that COVID-19 is the reason for the delay (due to local restrictions, etc.)  

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/03/25/advancement-during-covid-19-official-details-about-eagle-extensions-and-more/
 

Edited by atomheartbevo

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Very worried about Philmont (mid-July) and Sea Base (early-August).  At least I'll keep my record intact. I've never had a Philmont trek scheduled that wasn't canceled until the following summer.

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2 hours ago, Saint Tacky said:

Very worried about Philmont (mid-July) and Sea Base (early-August).  At least I'll keep my record intact. I've never had a Philmont trek scheduled that wasn't canceled until the following summer.

That’s a decent ways off, and they are still staffing various facilities.   If things can truly peak by May, and we can get practices in place and better testing, should be hard to spin everything back up in June.  
Maybe there will be a social distancing badge by then?

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A Philmont cancellation would be crushing, esp. for Crews that were denied last Summer due to the fires & took a rollover to 2020.

As to getting parents on board with belt loops & advancement, honestly if the Scout or Adult Partner wasn't motivated before, it will probably be equally difficult to get them on board now even though they have the available time to get every available loop or pin for that particular rank.

All I can suggest is that you position this as a way for the Adult Partner to get in some quality time that provides a structured method, i.e. the various loops have a plan & list of what to do, so "no thinking / having to come up with ideas on your own" for something new & interesting.

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44 minutes ago, ROFL BOX said:

A Philmont cancellation would be crushing, esp. for Crews that were denied last Summer due to the fires & took a rollover to 2020.

As to getting parents on board with belt loops & advancement, honestly if the Scout or Adult Partner wasn't motivated before, it will probably be equally difficult to get them on board now even though they have the available time to get every available loop or pin for that particular rank.

All I can suggest is that you position this as a way for the Adult Partner to get in some quality time that provides a structured method, i.e. the various loops have a plan & list of what to do, so "no thinking / having to come up with ideas on your own" for something new & interesting.

Yeah, it’s being pitched to those missing some of the core requirements in our den that some can be combined, like the hike and backyard jungle, and some of the electives, like the bicycle one, could be done in the course of a normal outing.  

We asked if the Family Adventures were still on at Philmont (we are going to try this summer if we can work out the schedule and if there are good slots), and got a response back pointing to this page, and saying that more info would be forthcoming on April 15:

https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/

If you read that, they are still prepping, but taking measures to keep things safe between now and then.   

Edited by atomheartbevo

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