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On 5/20/2018 at 11:39 PM, Smax said:

Lets talk about decanting, who does it or does not and whats your reasoning

 

I was wondering about a few bottles posted here especially the older ones if you guys did decant

You should decant for a couple of reasons. The main reason is to keep the sediment in the bottle and not pour it into the glass. You decant by looking through the bottle while pouring it into the decanter and you stop pouring when you see sediment start making its way to the neck. I absolutely can’t stand when you go to a “nice” restaurant and they just upend the bottle into the decanter. The other reason is to let some of the volatiles come off (like strong alcohol for example) which may open up the bouquet to some of the other notes that would otherwise be dominated. However, there is no scientific evidence that this really changes anything about the composition of the wine. So tldr; do it because you don’t want to drink sediment. 

Edited by b_p

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I drink a lot of aged Bordeaux, I pretty much always decant.  But as b_p pointed out, it's as much for avoiding sediment as anything else.  

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32 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

I rarely ever decant, but I drink a lot of young wines.

Do you let it breathe after pouring?

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You have to understand, when HJ says he drinks young wine, he ain't kidding.  He's talking about this:

 

1280px-MD_2020.jpg

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13 hours ago, b_p said:

You should decant for a couple of reasons. The main reason is to keep the sediment in the bottle and not pour it into the glass. You decant by looking through the bottle while pouring it into the decanter and you stop pouring when you see sediment start making its way to the neck. I absolutely can’t stand when you go to a “nice” restaurant and they just upend the bottle into the decanter. The other reason is to let some of the volatiles come off (like strong alcohol for example) which may open up the bouquet to some of the other notes that would otherwise be dominated. However, there is no scientific evidence that this really changes anything about the composition of the wine. So tldr; do it because you don’t want to drink sediment. 

If you're not a believer in letting the wine breathe and only do it to stop the sediment, why spend the money on a decanter (and the pain it is to clean it) and instead just get one of these - it stops the majority (if not all) of the sediment for a fraction of the price of a decanter and a tenth of the effort:

 https://www.amazon.com/Haleys-Corker-Aerator-Stopper-Re-Corker/dp/B001IWONKC/ref=lp_289737_1_22?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1527017875&sr=1-22

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6 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

If you're not a believer in letting the wine breathe and only do it to stop the sediment, why spend the money on a decanter (and the pain it is to clean it) and instead just get one of these - it stops the majority (if not all) of the sediment for a fraction of the price of a decanter and a tenth of the effort:

 https://www.amazon.com/Haleys-Corker-Aerator-Stopper-Re-Corker/dp/B001IWONKC/ref=lp_289737_1_22?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1527017875&sr=1-22

I guess you can call me a traditionalist. To me, it’s part of enjoying good wine. You’ll never see anyone putting that aerator into a bottle of 89 Haut Brion. 

With that said, I don’t think it’s important to decant every wine. HenryJames is posting a lot of young Pinots that probably don’t need it. You also won’t need to decant much of your local, young HEB wines. But if you’re going to spend the money on a good bottle, spend the time to decant it. The cost of the decanter is peanuts compared to the cost of the wines.

Also, you might have misinterpreted what I said about giving  the wine some air.  I’m a firm believer that the wine will evolve over time as air is introduced.  There’s no reason to drink white burgundy out of an oaked chardonnay glass otherwise.  All I’m saying is the lab studies cannot discern a difference in the composition of the wine over time, other than some of the volitiles do evaporate.

 

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16 hours ago, b_p said:

I guess you can call me a traditionalist. To me, it’s part of enjoying good wine. You’ll never see anyone putting that aerator into a bottle of 89 Haut Brion. 

With that said, I don’t think it’s important to decant every wine. HenryJames is posting a lot of young Pinots that probably don’t need it. You also won’t need to decant much of your local, young HEB wines. But if you’re going to spend the money on a good bottle, spend the time to decant it. The cost of the decanter is peanuts compared to the cost of the wines.

Also, you might have misinterpreted what I said about giving  the wine some air.  I’m a firm believer that the wine will evolve over time as air is introduced.  There’s no reason to drink white burgundy out of an oaked chardonnay glass otherwise.  All I’m saying is the lab studies cannot discern a difference in the composition of the wine over time, other than some of the volitiles do evaporate.

 

I agree with all this. I decant the good stuff as well and stick the bottle topper in the majority of the other wines I drink.

I do hate cleaning the decanter though.... 

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6 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

I agree with all this. I decant the good stuff as well and stick the bottle topper in the majority of the other wines I drink.

I do hate cleaning the decanter though.... 

That's what the wife is for.

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On 5/22/2018 at 12:50 PM, DDD Dad said:

I rarely decant.

same.    frankly, sediment getting into my glass doesn't even bother me that much.  just let it settle (I'd prefer not to have it in there, but just a downside of not decanting)   I also don't drink much aged wine (over 10 years). 

The common thought that decanting is some magical taste changer by "opening" wine is pretty much a wive's tale.  Yes, it helps to swirl in the glass to let some potential CO come out or let maybe some phenol reaction with air that might, and I stress might, open up some flavor components (as mentioned above with the alcohol) but I'm a bit skeptical it is very perceptible to most of us.

And I hate cleaning the damn decanter

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Great blind old Napa cab tasting with a Bordeaux ringer. 89 L’Arrosee, 90 La Jota Howell Mtn, 90 Mondavi Reserve, 85 Berlinger Private Reserve, 90 Forman and 85 Grgich. All were incredible but Grgich was past prime.9b2f9412f202d20e369d9038dc6afb03.jpg

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Great blind old Napa cab tasting with a Bordeaux ringer. 89 L’Arrosee, 90 La Jota Howell Mtn, 90 Mondavi Reserve, 85 Berlinger Private Reserve, 90 Forman and 85 Grgich. All were incredible but Grgich was past prime.9b2f9412f202d20e369d9038dc6afb03.jpg

Any vegetal notes on the Forman?

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2012 Chateau Montelena Cab Franc

2015 Scott Vineyards Pinot Noir

2014 David Fulton Petit Syrah

2013 Barone Ricasoli Brolio Chianti Classico Gran Selecione

2013 Barone Ricasoli Casalfero

2010 Isodi Super Tuscan

The Isodi and the David Fulton were the stars of the show.   It’s a shame that David Fulton is being sold to plant Cabernet.  That petit Syrah is fantastic.   The Scott Pinot Noir held up very well.  A really nice drinkable wine. 

Edited by VABuckeye

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On 3/26/2018 at 6:27 PM, DDD Dad said:

In the past I found a wine from a basically unknown winery in Calistoga (I'm thinking this was back in 2005 or earlier) that had bought George III grapes and sold under their label.  I want to say the price point at the time was well under $50 a bottle (maybe $30?).  Was fantastic stuff and relatively cheap.

Have never seen that wine available again.  I imagine their contract expired and the winery likely went out of business.  Will dig around my old inventory to see if I can find the name of it.

I found it!

It was Zahtila Vineyards.  Here is an article from back in 2005 about it.

It looks like they renamed their business after both the husband and wife.

It's in the same place I visited back in 2005.  Right where Silverado Trail and 29 come together in Calistoga.  I just checked out their website and it doesn't look like they offer a Georges III Beckstoffer anymore (as I had suspected).

 

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Question for the wine snobs - which Fredericksburg (TX) vineyards are worth a visit?   I've done Grape Creek, Becker, etc. and have not been impressed at all.  The wife and I are going for the weekend.  

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7 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Not impressed by the visit or the wine?

By the wine.  Not that I hated the wine but I'm hoping there might be some hidden gems out there.  We drink a lot of cabs (justin, hall, etc) so are looking for good reds.  

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Well you’re not going to find good cabs in Texas with a few exceptions. If you like reds, you need to look for Tempranillo, some Sangiovese, and other Italian varietals.

But if you are wanting a cab or another big red, I’d recommend Calais winery outside of Hye. You have to register for a tasting, but it’s intimate and informative and he’ll probably have a cab, Syrah, Malbec or something similar.

Edited by HenryJames

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Texas is bigger than France and has better wine. 

I wish it were the case, but my beloved Texas does not produce better wine than France.

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1 minute ago, HouTex said:


I wish it were the case, but my beloved Texas does not produce better wine than France.

Wrong. I had a dinner party last week and served an 86 Margaux and a 16 Messina Hof cab and every single person preferred the Messina Hof. The old French wines are shit compared to the new, fresh, Aggy wine being made in Fburg. 

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2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Wrong. I had a dinner party last week and served an 86 Margaux and a 16 Messina Hof cab and every single person preferred the Messina Hof. The old French wines are shit compared to the new, fresh, Aggy wine being made in Fburg. 

My apologies.  My sarcasm meter is broken.

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texas-hill-country-wine-map.jpg

 

While the wineries in TX are young,  i won't say in their infancy, the wine trail here in TX is vibrant and better/bigger than i ever considered or gave it credit for.  A few weekends back we hopped around doing tastings and thoroughly enjoyed our time.  Whether it was the tasting rooms from non Texas wineries or the Texas wineries we were pleasantly surprised.  I couldn't help but feel a bit proud of what are state is producing.  If you haven't been in recent years, take the short trip west, you won't be disappointed.  

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6 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

While the wineries in TX are young,  i won't say in their infancy, the wine trail here in TX is vibrant and better/bigger than i ever considered or gave it credit for.  A few weekends back we hopped around doing tastings and thoroughly enjoyed our time.  Whether it was the tasting rooms from non Texas wineries or the Texas wineries we were pleasantly surprised.  I couldn't help but feel a bit proud of what are state is producing.  If you haven't been in recent years, take the short trip west, you won't be disappointed.  

I had a similar experience when I went on a Fburg/Hill Country wine tour. The vineyards are all very nice and if the weather is good you can sit out on the patios and enjoy the view. The only problem is that I still have tastebuds, so when I put the wine in my mouth I have to taste it. As a vehicle for delivering alcohol into my bloodstream, the wine works just fine. But unfortunately because of those damn tastebuds I have to taste the wine before it gets there. That is really the only downside to drinking the Texas wines. Also the price points are awesome. Anytime you can pay 35-50 bucks for the "good" wine made in Texas you gotta do it. Really can't find any good wine from Europe or California at that price point. 

Edited by Hank Scorpio

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8 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I had a similar experience when I went on a Fburg/Hill Country wine tour. The vineyards are all very nice and if the weather is good you can sit out on the patios and enjoy the view. The only problem is that I still have tastebuds, so when I put the wine in my mouth I have to taste it. As a vehicle for delivering alcohol into my bloodstream, the wine works just fine. But unfortunately because of those damn tastebuds I have to taste the wine before it gets there. That is really the only downside to drinking the Texas wines. Also the price points are awesome. Anytime you can pay 35-50 bucks for the "good" wine made in Texas you gotta do it. Really can't find any good wine from Europe or California at that price point. 

Agree.  Someone above mentioned a '16 Messina Hof Cab.  A good  '16 cab should still be in the barrel right now, not bottled and sold.

I don't want to start the big "Texas wines are great" debate.  They're not, regardless of the "awards" they tout.  That said, you can get some decent wine if you go with wines made from the type of grapes that can actually be grown in Texas (Mourvedre, Grenache, Tempranillo, Voignier, etc.).  Texas doesn't grow, and really can't grow, quality cab, cab franc, chardonnay, etc. grapes.  We don't make Napa/Sonoma-quality grapes, or French-quality grapes, and we don't have the depth of high-end winemakers those places have.

There are some nice places on the wine-country trail, but the last time I was out there (about a year ago) it was populated by the load up on a bus and hit as many wineries as possible to get drunk crowd.  

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1 hour ago, BearCountry11 said:

Question for the wine snobs - which Fredericksburg (TX) vineyards are worth a visit?   I've done Grape Creek, Becker, etc. and have not been impressed at all.  The wife and I are going for the weekend.  

Lets start with a few questions.  What impresses you?  Do you like wine?  Which types ?  Would you say you favor a Gewurtztraminer or a Cab?    

Really, the point is to keep going/trying until you find what you like.  I'd start with a Yates, Hilmy or Will Chris, but you might like the Rose at Vinovium.  Who knows?

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15 minutes ago, AustinMT said:

...There are some nice places on the wine-country trail, but the last time I was out there (about a year ago) it was populated by the load up on a bus and hit as many wineries as possible to get drunk crowd.  

afewgoodmenisthereanotherkind.gif

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53 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Anytime you can pay 35-50 bucks for the "good" wine made in Texas you gotta do it. Really can't find any good wine from Europe or California at that price point. 

 

 

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Edited by Smax

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The somewhat recently retired wine critic, Robert Parker, never even published a review of a Texas wine. Not one.

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On 6/8/2018 at 8:02 PM, HenryJames said:

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Chianti Classico, imo.

Can't wait to get back to Italy this September and drink the wine.

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2 hours ago, HouTex said:


I wish it were the case, but my beloved Texas does not produce better wine than France.

I feel the same about Virginia wines.  They just seem, thin.  I will admit that I haven't been down to Charlottesville where the better vineyards in the state are located.  They have to be an improvement on what I've found in the northern part of the state.

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20 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I feel the same about Virginia wines.  They just seem, thin.  I will admit that I haven't been down to Charlottesville where the better vineyards in the state are located.  They have to be an improvement on what I've found in the northern part of the state.

You should go to Charlottesville, I hear there are some really bold whites down there. 

 

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So what is your point?  I've also never read review of Texas BBQ by Bruni or Gael Greene either.     

Parker was independent and widely regarded as the best and most influential wine critic in the world. He saw himself as a Ralph Nader for wine lovers. His goal was to taste and score wines from all over the world (although his main focus was on France and Cali) and recommend the good ones to consumers. That he never published a single tasting note on a Texas wine is telling.

Re: Bruni and Greene, they are/were restaurant critics generally. And they are based in New York City (get a rope!!). If they were BBQ specialists you can bet they would review Texas Q.

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On 6/14/2018 at 12:34 PM, RollLeft said:

Lets start with a few questions.  What impresses you?  Do you like wine?  Which types ?  Would you say you favor a Gewurtztraminer or a Cab?    

Really, the point is to keep going/trying until you find what you like.  I'd start with a Yates, Hilmy or Will Chris, but you might like the Rose at Vinovium.  Who knows?

Good list.  I'd add Inwood.   Calais can be interesting, too, if you get a reservation/time.  Right now, best Texas wines I had were some viognier blends and mourvedre from high plains.

 

I did taste some wines from Fall Creek recently, mostly grown fruit in Hill Country and I thought they were pretty darn good.  Not sure on price point.

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On 6/16/2018 at 9:35 AM, bularry1 said:

Good list.  I'd add Inwood.   Calais can be interesting, too, if you get a reservation/time.  Right now, best Texas wines I had were some viognier blends and mourvedre from high plains.

 

I did taste some wines from Fall Creek recently, mostly grown fruit in Hill Country and I thought they were pretty darn good.  Not sure on price point.

We loved Calais.  Did that one, William Chris, and Kuhlman to start the day and were very impressed.  Hilmy was also good.  After that our pallets were pretty done so we called it a day and ended with cocktails at The Stable (recommended).  

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