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The Robert Mueller Investigation


Hugo Stiglitz

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I think a lot of people don't realize how badly the average DC "professional" needs to keep their job.  Rosenstein makes about $210K per year.  That's not typically the type of salary one would associate with the ability to sustain long periods of unemployment.  Barring impressive savings and investments, these people are generally going to fight hard to stay employed.  We're not talking about Rex Tillerson here.
This is incredibly uninformed. Almost any lawyer working in the justice department could make substantially more in the private sector with little trouble finding a landing spot. New hires come from the top of their classes at elite law schools and/or off of federal clerkships. Lateral hires come from top firms. This is true for attorneys in other federal agencies too. Say what you will about Rosenstein but he's been committed to public service and isn't desperate to hang on to his job for financial reasons.

While we're on the topic, is that really your view of professionals in the federal government? It is badly misinformed.
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3 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

This is incredibly uninformed. Almost any lawyer working in the justice department could make substantially more in the private sector with little trouble finding a landing spot. New hires come from the top of their classes at elite law schools and/or off of federal clerkships. Lateral hires come from top firms. This is true for attorneys in other federal agencies too. Say what you will about Rosenstein but he's been committed to public service and isn't desperate to hang on to his job for financial reasons.

Fair enough.

 

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While we're on the topic, is that really your view of professionals in the federal government? It is badly misinformed.

Well, I doubt many are in it for wholly altruistic reasons.  What's your point?

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Before we throw Rosenstein under the bus, put yourself in his position.  If he doesn’t thread the needle perfectly, the Mueller investigation would have likely been completely compromised.  This is all because Trump is a fucking criminal pos boss.  

Rosenstein needs to testify in public ASAP and he could be the real whistleblower John Dean of Stupid Watergate because his firsthand perspective of Trump’s obstruction of justice wasn’t detailed much in the Mueller Report.  He can provide a lot of new information.  

He no longer has a job or investigation to protect.  He might be a team trump player or he might have just been saying he was because that’s what Trump needed to hear at the time.  I think we should give him an opportunity to explain himself.

He's free to resign in protest and denounce Trump anytime he wants now.  He has our blessing.   Crickets are chirping. 

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Just now, Mojo Hand said:

He's free to resign in protest and denounce Trump anytime he wants now.  He has our blessing.   Crickets are chirping. 

Mueller is still on the payroll too.  What the fuck is he doing?  All I’m saying is there’s probably a lot of shit we don’t know going on behind the scenes.  

The Mueller investigation was the only government project almost solely dedicated to informing the American people of how to better defend themselves from Russian information warfare and future foreign attacks on our democracy by exposing exactly what they did.  

 Trump and his crimes are almost nothing compared to that.  However, the possibility that Trump would have prevented Mueller from completing his work if Rosenstein wasn’t there is a likely scenario and it makes Trump’s obstruction of justice look much more treacherous.

It’s possible Rosenstein sacrificed himself and his reputation to expose the details of Russia’s tactics to the world.  He didn’t run away and resign like a bitch but he did unfortunately make compromises that makes him look like a Trump toady.  Only time will tell but I’m still thankful Rosenstein was there to help put Putin’s shit on blast.  

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Before we throw Rosenstein under the bus, put yourself in his position.  If he doesn’t thread the needle perfectly, the Mueller investigation would have likely been completely compromised.  This is all because Trump is a fucking criminal pos boss.  

Rosenstein needs to testify in public ASAP and he could be the real whistleblower John Dean of Stupid Watergate because his firsthand perspective of Trump’s obstruction of justice wasn’t detailed much in the Mueller Report.  He can provide a lot of new information.  

He no longer has a job or investigation to protect.  He might be a team trump player or he might have just been saying he was because that’s what Trump needed to hear at the time.  I think we should give him an opportunity to explain himself.

How does explain his pro-Trump/anti-Obama/dems comments yesterday?

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1 hour ago, TexEx15 said:

First, LBJ was before my time.  LBJ has some pretty significant legislative accomplishments.  And like other presidents he had issues as well namely Vietnam.  I would take him over Trump if that’s what you are angling for.

Well if I showed up bashing Obama with a Nixon avatar I'd expect people to demand an explanation of why one was better than the other. 

 

Not even the allegations levied against Donald Trump approach the level of what is believed about LBJ.  Here's the liberal media on election meddling.

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2 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

How does explain his pro-Trump/anti-Obama/dems comments yesterday?

Read exactly what he said not taken out of context:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/deputy-attorney-general-rod-j-rosenstein-delivers-remarks-armenian-bar-association-s

He actually takes some subtle shots at Trump/Fox News when he starts talking about “mercenary critics”.

He wasn’t wrong either about the Obama Administration not doing enough to protect Americans from what the Russians were doing because they knew how serious the Russia shit was. The Obama Administration had their reasons for inaction and while it’s nothing compared to Trump’s treasonous approach to the problem, the Obama IC failed the American people.  We weren’t prepared to defend the against the Russians attack and a lot of that is on Obama because there were plenty of warning signs from Europe that it was coming.  It was a lack of imagination combined with hubris.

Section of Rosenstein speech:

At my confirmation hearing in March 2017, a Republican Senator asked me to make a commitment. He said: “You’re going to be in charge of this [Russia] investigation. I want you to look me in the eye and tell me that you’ll do it right, that you’ll take it to its conclusion and you’ll report [your results] to the American people.”

I did pledge to do it right and take it to the appropriate conclusion. I did not promise to report all results to the public, because grand jury investigations are ex parte proceedings. It is not our job to render conclusive factual findings. We just decide whether it is appropriate to file criminal charges.

Some critical decisions about the Russia investigation were made before I got there. The previous Administration chose not to publicize the full story about Russian computer hackers and social media trolls, and how they relate to a broader strategy to undermine America. The FBI disclosed classified evidence about the investigation to ranking legislators and their staffers. Someone selectively leaked details to the news media. The FBI Director announced at a congressional hearing that there was a counterintelligence investigation that might result in criminal charges. Then the former FBI Director alleged that the President pressured him to close the investigation, and the President denied that the conversation occurred.

So that happened.

There is a story about firefighters who found a man on a burning bed. When they asked how the fire started, he replied, “I don’t know. It was on fire when I lay down on it.”  I know the feeling.

But the bottom line is, there was overwhelming evidence that Russian operatives hacked American computers and defrauded American citizens, and that is only the tip of the iceberg of a comprehensive Russian strategy to influence elections, promote social discord, and undermine America, just like they do in many other countries.

In 1941, as Hitler sought to enslave Europe and Japan’s emperor prepared to attack America, Attorney General Robert Jackson admonished federal prosecutors about their role in protecting national security. He said: “Defense is not only a matter of battleships and tanks, of guns and [soldiers]….  It is raw materials, machines and [people who] work in factories.  It is public morale.  It is a law abiding population and a nation free from internal disorder . . . the ramparts we watch are not only those on the outer borders which are largely the concern of the military services.  There are also the inner ramparts of our society — the Constitution, its guarantees, our freedoms and the supremacy of law.  These are yours to guard and their protection is your defense program.”  

As acting Attorney General, it was my responsibility to make sure that the Department of Justice would do what the American people pay us to do: conduct an independent investigation; complete it expeditiously; hold perpetrators accountable if warranted; and work with partner agencies to counter foreign agents and deter crimes.

Today, our nation is safer, elections are more secure, and citizens are better informed about covert foreign influence schemes.

But not everybody was happy with my decision, in case you did not notice.

It is important to keep a sense of humor in Washington.  You just need to accept that politicians need to evaluate everything in terms of the immediate political impact.

Then there are the mercenary critics, who get paid to express passionate opinions about any topic, often with little or no information. They do not just express disagreement. They launch ad hominem attacks unrestricted by truth or morality. They make threats, spread fake stories, and even attack your relatives. I saw one of the professional provocateurs at a holiday party. He said, “I’m sorry that I’m making your life miserable.” And I said, “You do your job, and I’ll do mine.”

His job is to entertain and motivate partisans, so he can keep making money. My job is to enforce the law in a non-partisan way; that is the whole point of the oath of office.

In our Department, we disregard the mercenary critics and focus on the things that matter. As Goethe said, “Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least.” A republic that endures is not governed by the news cycle. Some of the nonsense that passes for breaking news today would not be worth the paper was printed on, if anybody bothered to print it. It quickly fades away. The principles are what abide.

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Mueller is still on the payroll too.  What the fuck is he doing?  All I’m saying is there’s probably a lot of shit we don’t know going on behind the scenes.  

The Mueller investigation was the only government project almost solely dedicated to informing the American people of how to better defend themselves from Russian information warfare and future foreign attacks on our democracy by exposing exactly what they did.  

 Trump and his crimes are almost nothing compared to that.  However, the possibility that Trump would have prevented Mueller from completing his work if Rosenstein wasn’t there is a likely scenario and it makes Trump’s obstruction of justice look much more treacherous.

It’s possible Rosenstein sacrificed himself and his reputation to expose the details of Russia’s tactics to the world.  He didn’t run away and resign like a bitch but he did unfortunately make compromises that makes him look like a Trump toady.  Only time will tell but I’m still thankful Rosenstein was there to help put Putin’s shit on blast.  

Mueller said everything he wanted to say in his report, which is brutal to Trump.  His silence fits with that. Rosenstein participated in Barr's whitewashing of the report.   His silence fits with that too, unless we buy your rosy view of Rosenstein's secret motivations, in which case his present silence does not make sense. 

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1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

tl;dr 

Speaking of, a quick summary of Volume 2 of the Mueller Report could be, “I’m going to get the motherfucker that tried to fire me and here’s a ton of the evidence. Tick tock bitch.”

44 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Mueller said everything he wanted to say in his report, which is brutal to Trump.  His silence fits with that. Rosenstein participated in Barr's whitewashing of the report.   His silence fits with that too, unless we buy your rosy view of Rosenstein's secret motivations, in which case his present silence does not make sense. 

How was Rosenstein supposed to stop Barr’s whitewashing of the report? and how do we know his level of participation in the whitewashing?  Without Rosenstein, there would be no Mueller Report to speak for itself. 

I’m not saying Rosenstein is an angel, he isn’t.  I’m saying he got the important part of his job done, which was tackling the Russia problem. 

What was he supposed to do? Wear a wire? lol

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Speaking of, a quick summary of Volume 2 of the Mueller Report could be, “I’m going to get the motherfucker the tried to fire me and here’s a ton of the evidence. Tick tock bitch.”

How was Rosenstein supposed to stop Barr’s whitewashing of the report? and how do we know his level of participation in the whitewashing?  Without Rosenstein, there would be no Mueller Report to speak for itself. 

I’m not saying Rosenstein is an angel, he isn’t.  I’m saying he got the important part of his job done, which was tackling the Russia problem. 

What was he supposed to do? Wear a wire? lol

No, all he needs to do is resign like Mattis did.  But he hasn't done that, because he's a Trump team player. 

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1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

No, all he needs to do is resign like Mattis did.  But he hasn't done that, because he's a Trump team player. 

He is resigning. His replacement is awaiting Senate confirmation.  I suppose you think he should resign now in protest?  Perhaps but what would the consequences of that be?  

Fucking nothing except more authority given to Bill Barr. 

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7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He is resigning. His replacement is awaiting Senate confirmation.  I suppose you think he should resign now in protest?  Perhaps but what would the consequences of that be?  

Fucking nothing except more authority given to Bill Barr. 

Not resign.   Resign like Mattis.   Blast the administration on the way out.  He has a platform and can make a significant difference by speaking out right now.   There is nothing to risk except his relationship with Trump.   But he appears to value that. 

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Hard to know what to make of Rosenstein for me. He writes the Comey memo, and Trump tries to get others to go in front of the media and say that that justified firing Comey. Rosenstein and others toss around the idea of invoking the 25th amendment. Then he goes hat in hand to the WH to convince DOTUS that he can land the plane. I don't think Cheeto had the balls to fire Rosenstein, so he probably didn't have much to worrry about there.

I think he probably stood as a buffer b/w Cheeto and Mueller getting fired, which is probably the most important end result in all of this.

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5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Not resign.   Resign like Mattis.   Blast the administration on the way out.  He has a platform and can make a significant difference by speaking out right now.   There is nothing to risk except his relationship with Trump.   But he appears to value that. 

Because that worked so well with Mattis.  Look, I don’t necessarily disagree with where you’re coming from.  I know enough to know that there are a lot of things I don’t know.  Rosenstein needs scrutiny and the best way to get that is under questioning through a congressional hearing.  Same with Barr and Mueller.  

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1 hour ago, notre dame joe said:

Well if I showed up bashing Obama with a Nixon avatar I'd expect people to demand an explanation of why one was better than the other. 

 

Not even the allegations levied against Donald Trump approach the level of what is believed about LBJ.  Here's the liberal media on election meddling.

Are you dumb?  The avatar is because I went to school at LBJ.  Did you go to some grad school named after Nixon?  If not then shut the fuck up because your argument is dumb.

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because that worked so well with Mattis.  Look, I don’t necessarily disagree with where you’re coming from.  I know enough to know that there are a lot of things I don’t know.  Rosenstein needs scrutiny and the best way to get that is under questioning through a congressional hearing.  Same with Barr and Mueller.  

How did it not work well with Mattis?  It was a big story that reverberated.  It's definitely hurt Trump's standing with military types, IMO.  And Trump has since reversed himself on the very issue that Mattis resigned over.   Mattis was very impactful with the way he resigned. 

With the question of impeachment at hand, Rosenstein could literally be determinative.   A resignation letter blasting Trump's abuses of power would be a game changer.   The only reason he's not doing that is because he's exactly who he has proven to be:  a stooge just following orders from the dear leader. 

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I would feel safer right now if Mattis was still the Secretary of Defense instead of some guy from Boeing.  

Well, that concern isn't present here because Rosenstein was already leaving.  He's going to be gone either way.   The only question is whether he leaves in a way supportive of Trump (quietly) or in a way that makes an impact for the good of the country.  Crickets are still chirping. 

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4 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

How did it not work well with Mattis?  It was a big story that reverberated.  It's definitely hurt Trump's standing with military types, IMO.  And Trump has since reversed himself on the very issue that Mattis resigned over.   Mattis was very impactful with the way he resigned. 

With the question of impeachment at hand, Rosenstein could literally be determinative.   A resignation letter blasting Trump's abuses of power would be a game changer.   The only reason he's not doing that is because he's exactly who he has proven to be:  a stooge just following orders from the dear leader. 

I was going to reply to this with the thought that maybe Rosenstein wouldn’t do that because it would appear he was biased against Trump while overseeing the report.  Then I realized, fuck that.  He should quit and come out and say I don’t give a shit if people think I’m biased against Trump. Any decent American should be.

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3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Well, that concern isn't present here because Rosenstein was already leaving.  He's going to be gone either way.   The only question is whether he leaves in a way supportive of Trump (quietly) or in a way that makes an impact for the good of the country.  Crickets are still chirping. 

Mattis was the most universally respected person in the Trump Administration and his dramatic resignation barely made it past a news cycle.

Like Comey, Rosenstein is already a universally despised figure.  A dramatic “fuck Trump” Rosenstein resignation wouldn’t mean shit.

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There's a WaPo article that talks about Rosenstein not wanting to having his reputation tarnished by being fired by tweet. It says he was at the Easter Egg Roll the other day. Seems like most of these pols consider Trump to be a blip on the radar. Once he's gone, they want to continue their careers as if nothing happened. Kind of like the way no journalist will really call out Trump/Sanders. There is life after Trump (maybe), and they don't want to be that guy/girl.

Mattis had time on his side as he was close to retirement. He no longer had to schmooze for a living.

WaPo https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/i-can-land-the-plane-how-rosenstein-tried-to-mollify-trump-protect-mueller-and-save-his-job/2019/04/26/f2fd3bf2-65e0-11e9-82ba-fcfeff232e8f_story.html?utm_term=.928f1e9c6861

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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Mattis was the most universally respected person in the Trump Administration and his dramatic resignation barely made it past a news cycle.

Like Comey, Rosenstein is already a universally despised figure.  A dramatic “fuck Trump” Rosenstein resignation wouldn’t mean shit.

That's crazy.   He literally stood on a stage behind Barr last week and signed off on his whitewashing of the report.  If he came out and said that he had to hold his tongue so that the report was released, but that he can no longer stand by while Trump's criminal conduct gets ignored, it would explode like a bomb.   The Dems would have total cover for impeachment. 

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What little I know about him, it seems like he would think that a tell-all resignation letter would be burning a lot of bridges for him. Maybe part of it is DOJ etiquette. It's just not something that you do.

Maybe he thinks it would taint the Mueller investigation if he did it.

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1 minute ago, retread said:

What little I know about him, it seems like he would think that a tell-all resignation letter would be burning a lot of bridges for him. Maybe part of it is DOJ etiquette. It's just not something that you do.

Maybe he thinks it would taint the Mueller investigation if he did it.

A litmus test for me with people in this administration is if I can catch them in a lie or strategic deception while speaking to the American people on camera.  There are very few that have passed this test (Mattis, McMaster, and oddly Tillerson).  Rosenstein hasn’t burned that bridge with me yet but standing behind Barr at that presser came right up to the line. 

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32 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

A litmus test for me with people in this administration is if I can catch them in a lie or strategic deception while speaking to the American people on camera.  There are very few that have passed this test (Mattis, McMaster, and oddly Tillerson).  Rosenstein hasn’t burned that bridge with me yet but standing behind Barr at that presser came right up to the line. 

Maybe you should purchase a pH meter. Much more accurate than the litmus paper.

Of course, it is much more difficult to get the traitors to lay down and stick a probe up their ass.

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4 hours ago, SDG said:

Hugo seems like he’s holding on for dear life.  Find another scam to get internet subscribers.  I hear Hamm is looking for a partner...

Does Hugo's wrongheadedness give you a reprieve from the realization that you're a horrible piece of shit and a net negative on society? End of day, at least he cares about what's happening, while you spend your $300 tax relief on a new pair of truck nuts.

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12 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Does Hugo's wrongheadedness give you a reprieve from the realization that you're a horrible piece of shit and a net negative on society? End of day, at least he cares about what's happening, while you spend your $300 tax relief on a new pair of truck nuts.

Your brow seems furrowed when you posted that..,

Edited by EuroHorn
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10 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

You’re brow seems furrowed when you posted that..,

Eh. Not really. I'm good, my family and my future are all good. I'm a good example of suburban white guy privelege  status quo being great for me, my kids, and maybe their kids (if they don't completely blow it). But I'm okay with sharing some of that with people who didn't have the same opportunities that I did. I suppose you are very proud of you being a self-made man. Tell us your story. Be sure to include boot straps and all that. Throw some intangibles in there too. Lunch pail. Coaches' kid

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1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Eh. Not really. I'm good, my family and my future are all good. I'm a good example of suburban white guy privelege  status quo being great for me, my kids, and maybe their kids (if they don't completely blow it). But I'm okay with sharing some of that with people who didn't have the same opportunities that I did. I suppose you are very proud of you being a self-made man. Tell us your story. Be sure to include boot straps and all that. Throw some intangibles in there too. Lunch pail. Coaches' kid

You sound like a mess...

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It seems to me Mueller was looking to prove criminal conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence on two fronts.
1.  Manafort/Gates—>Kilimnik/Deripaska—>Internet Research Agency 
2.  Roger Stone—>Guiccfer2.0/Julian Assange/Wikileaks—>GRU 
It looks like he got really close on both but couldn’t make a compelling enough case.
There’s no doubt in my mind Manafort and Stone had knowledge of the Russian interference at the times they were coordinating with Russians on campaign related issues.  
How much Trump knew is unknown but based on how he handled the Don Jr Trump Tower meeting, he probably went out of his way to know as little as possible.
ETA: A takeaway from the Mueller Report is Trump is a professional criminal that knows how to side step legal land mines by throwing other people under the bus and giving himself plenty of plausible deniability breathing room to keep operating. 


You seem to be heavily invested in this deal.

Guess what? Most politicians and Presidents are/were professional criminals, this isn’t news for those that have paid attention close enough.

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