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Posted
3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

i know monica GIF

 

The essay is about GenX from the standpoint that it's writing about how GenX white males didn't pay any price in connection with the implementation of DEI hiring policies.  The people who are in power among GenX are disproportionately white males.  And we didn't throw ourselves out of power.

That's a bit part of the thesis of the essay, and it's a part with which I strongly agree.

I'm not even disagreeing with the author's observations about the impact on his cohort of Millenial white males.  I'm just saying I don't care.


Fair enough not to care, although it turns out that the people you don’t care about found some people who do say they care. 

And in a neat trick: now that the knives are out, the old white guys with money still get make out ahead. But we can’t say that about others. So, maybe a bit of messaging discipline might be in order. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Starting the article now... I'm wondering if there's any consideration for the fact that the millennial generation was enormous (almost as large as boomers), and came into the workforce at the same time as wider spread automation, technology, and outsourcing. Those factors would seem to explain some of the lower job availability, particularly if you also include boomers staying in their jobs longer than their predecessors (due to lifespan and wellness changes when compared to the greatest generation). 

I did not see any mitigating circumstances which was one of my complaints.  Put all his energy into the life’s not fair and I’m a victim argument.  

Edited by TexasEd
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Posted
7 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I did not see any mitigating circumstances which was one of my complaints.  Put all his energy into the life’s not fair and I’m a victim argument.  

I wonder who it's more unfair for, white men or everyone else.

It's a mystery.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I wonder who it's more unfair for, white men or everyone else.

It's a mystery.

Honestly, I think it’s about the same. 

To achieve the basics of “The American Dream” in this world requires three or more of the following:

- brains
- looks
- family connections and money
- good health
- hard work


White men, out of the box, have one really big advantage: if they interact with police they almost certainly won’t die. That’s a very big deal and I don’t want to minimize it. 
But otherwise, the vast majority of white men under 45 are just as fucked as everyone else and the vast majority of them will struggle all their lives and not amount to shit. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
43 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

the vast majority of white men under 45 are just as fucked as everyone else and the vast majority of them will struggle all their lives and not amount to shit. 

Their odds of success are much, much better.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Their odds of success are much, much better.

For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

I disagree as do the statistics 

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Posted

I’ve yet to see exceptional white men passed over. I’ve seen countless exceptional women and minorities be told to take a seat … over there. 

if white men are 28% of the population they should occupy 25-30% of all CEO, board, and other leadership positions. Finance, investment banking, private equity, law, CEOs, boards, etc are dominated by white men. Millennial men were the first to take it on the chin that’s true. I’m sorry. I tell my sons the closest thing to a guarantee is deciding for yourself that you are going to out work every dog out there. Be exceptional or be quiet. 

as for who got the nod, even if the women and minorities are privileged they are still less privileged than their white male counterparts parts. And by picking the easier ones first it will make room for more, representation matters, seeing a black woman on a corporate board matters even if she is privileged by class and education. 

as for corporate initiatives, some were woefully inadequate and poorly implemented but the best diversity programs strengthen organizations, it just so happens corporations want quick results and this is a long term play. I’ve been involved with several diversity initiatives that were unbelievably beneficial to the organization and plenty of white men were promoted. 

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Posted
For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

What percentage of black men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

What percentage of white men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

That’s the systemic advantage. And the gap there remains huge. That factor alone is hugely determinative of a person’s success.

Kid of a ditch digger is much less likely to achieve great success than the kid of a professional (and the grandkid, and great grandkid). And generations of history and practice made that gap, it hasn’t come even close to going away.

White men continue to ride the wave of the generational advantages of 300 fucking years. Now, that wave is 6 feet instead of 10. Waaaah.

Yeah, I know that a bazillion angry white men is bad for society. But…and this is important…fuck em. Fuck their entitled whiny asses.

Want something? Fucking earn it. Work HARDER. You know, all the things they tell minorities even today.
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Posted
21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


What percentage of black men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

What percentage of white men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

That’s the systemic advantage. And the gap there remains huge. That factor alone is hugely determinative of a person’s success.

Kid of a ditch digger is much less likely to achieve great success than the kid of a professional (and the grandkid, and great grandkid). And generations of history and practice made that gap, it hasn’t come even close to going away.

White men continue to ride the wave of the generational advantages of 300 fucking years. Now, that wave is 6 feet instead of 10. Waaaah.

Yeah, I know that a bazillion angry white men is bad for society. But…and this is important…fuck em. Fuck their entitled whiny asses.

Want something? Fucking earn it. Work HARDER. You know, all the things they tell minorities even today.

What if - and believe me this is hypothetical - but what if you were offered some kind of a stock option equity sharing program. Would that do anything for you?

 

 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What if - and believe me this is hypothetical - but what if you were offered some kind of a stock option equity sharing program. Would that do anything for you?

giphy.gif

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Posted
58 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

I'm not so sure I agree with you. Not including the "families with money" as we are talking about here there is a huge value in just having family support to fall back on. During trump 1.0 a trumpy acquaintance of mine was going on the usual "well my family was middle class and mommy and daddy didn't pay for my college and I had to live at home after graduation to save money to buy a house, where's my white privilege? Why can't everyone else just do that?". I told him being a white male second Gen college graduate that was able to live rent free with his parents is a massive privilege that he for some reason thinks of as a hardship. No his parents aren't rich, but he'll never be homeless or unable to aquire appropriate clothes for an interview. 

Anyway he's a recruiter for corporate dentists or something now. Also still a total fucking moron and one of the stupidest people I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I disagree as do the statistics 

Dude, whatever the number is- normalize for the zip code where they lived in high school and see what you’re left with.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Dude, whatever the number is- normalize for the zip code where they lived in high school and see what you’re left with.

And what you'll be left with is that the average white guy under 45 is still better offer off, statistically, than pretty much anyone else (basically except Asian males).  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Honestly, I think it’s about the same. 

To achieve the basics of “The American Dream” in this world requires three or more of the following:

- brains
- looks
- family connections and money
- good health
- hard work


White men, out of the box, have one really big advantage: if they interact with police they almost certainly won’t die. That’s a very big deal and I don’t want to minimize it. 
But otherwise, the vast majority of white men under 45 are just as fucked as everyone else and the vast majority of them will struggle all their lives and not amount to shit. 

helping minorities and women get to that first rung where this formula can be true for them is critically important. Promoting minorities and women who have achieved some success  has a direct impact on their kids in this very formula you advance. I’m sorry though, if you aren’t trying to be the very best version of you you can be then you’ve got no one to blame but yourself when you get passed over. Again, I’ve never seen an exceptional white guy miss out, it happens to women and minorities more often than not.

Edited by scramblyn
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Posted
4 minutes ago, scramblyn said:

helping minorities and women get to that first rung where this formula can be true for them is critically important. Promoting minorities and women who have achieved some success  has a direct impact on their kids in this very formula you advance

I’m not sure who you are responding to here.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, scramblyn said:

Again, I’ve never seen an exceptional white guy miss out, it happens to women and minorities more often than not.

I can only speak to what I’ve seen. Among millennials I’ve never seen anyone exceptional passed over ever. Exceptional people are exceptional.
 

But in the 2010’s I saw lots of well qualified millennial males disqualified from consideration for promotional or mid career opportunities strictly on the basis of maleness. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

I can only speak to what I’ve seen. Among millennials I’ve never seen anyone exceptional passed over. But I saw lots of well qualified millennial males disqualified from consideration for promotional or mid career opportunities strictly on the basis of maleness. 

I don’t doubt that I think many corporate initiatives were hasty and not well thought out, but the well done programs are needed. 

not sure how many conversations you’ve had with women and minorities where they speak openly and frankly about it, I have and it’s pervasive, still. And it got much better for a short period and that time is over. It’s back to business as usually in many ways.

again, I’m gen x too so that means what it means, but I tell my teenage white sons if they aren’t out working and out competing their peers then it’s no one else’s fault but their own. The days of promotion of mediocre or talented but not exceptional white guys is over. Don’t complain, be exceptional. 

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Posted
I don’t doubt that I think many corporate initiatives were hasty and not well thought out, but the well done programs are needed. 
not sure how many conversations you’ve had with women and minorities where they speak openly and frankly about it, I have and it’s pervasive, still. And it got much better for a short period and that time is over. It’s back to business as usually in many ways.
again, I’m gen x too so that means what it means, but I tell my teenage white sons if they aren’t out working and out competing their peers then it’s no one else’s fault but their own. The days of promotion of mediocre or talented but not exceptional white guys is over. Don’t complain, be exceptional. 

No, see, “don’t complain, be exceptional” is advice that only applies to minorities when being lectured by white people. “Work harder, bootstraps, quit whining, be exceptional!”
Totally cool when society spends generations telling minorities that, totally awful, no good, very bad when anyone tells that to white men.
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Posted
6 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

taken at face value what do you think? 

I won't begrudge the guy for writing about his personal experience, especially since he was perceptive and honest enough to acknowledge his own mediocrity. Nor would I begrudge the guy for finding other white millennial men who have walked similar paths and felt similar feelings.

What I take issue with is his going back and forth between anecdotes and statistics. I take issue with him teasing a hypothesis that he's too chickenshit to full-throatedly stand behind, in the same way Elon Musk is too chickenshit to ride one of his own rockets. He'd rather just publish the essay and hand the baton over to the usual gang of white grievance blowhards.

What use is this essay? It's already being used as justification for anti-wokism. But if that wasn't his intention, what else could it have been? To be more charitable to him, he may have been trying to better understand why white men moved toward the manosphere and connected the dots starting with his own insecurities and resentments and arriving at some of the entry-level concepts upon which white resentment rests.

But if you really think about it, is "I was a liberal guy, until this one bad thing happened to me" even a unique story? The only difference here is that it's career shit instead of something mundane like a divorce.

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Posted

I think the dude is making a good chunk of it up tbh. His only other essay published under his name is essentially the same thing on the same site. 

He's a concert ticket scalper who wants to write screenplays ffs

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Posted
11 minutes ago, safe sex said:

I think the dude is making a good chunk of it up tbh. His only other essay published under his name is essentially the same thing on the same site. 

He's a concert ticket scalper who wants to write screenplays ffs

Yeah all of these stories kind of smacked of "she was going to give me her phone number, but her friends needed to go to the bathroom and I didn't see her again all night"

Posted

A couple of unrelated points from a Gen Xer.

  • the writer says he struggles to get into the writers room because the “white guy” writer spots are taken up by older Gen X. I imagine the African American candidate feels the same when she sees that the 2 AA spots are filled as well. The East Asian candidate sees the Asian/Hispanic seat is already taken. And there is no designated seat for the South Asian guy.
  • while it’s fair that a Millennial may feel that Gen X are taking spots that he deserves, welcome to party, pal. We’ve been behind the larger Boomer group our entire existence. Millennials at least are behind the smaller Gen X. Gen X has a limited few years to be #1 in the job market. Let us maximize our prime earning years and we will get out of the way. Fuck man, there are still some boomers taking the highest paid spots.
  • Doors are often closed to younger workers but creators (entertainment, news) actually have self publishing avenues. Try being the supply chain or marketing guy. There isn’t a substack, social media or YouTube for them to showcase their work.

i agree that white men don’t have it as easy as past generations including mine. Some of them are not helping themselves by struggling to grow up.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, chainsaw said:

What use is this essay? It's already being used as justification for anti-wokism. But if that wasn't his intention, what else could it have been?

I think that is the intention. That’s one of the reasons it disturbs me. The other reason, which is far more troubling, is the truth it contains, because real grievance is much more powerful in politics than the confected variety. 
 

Look at this thread. Multiple people are copping to the fact that yeah, millennial men probably were discriminated against en masse in certain fields for about a decade exclusively based on their race and gender, but most are kind of brushing them off as  “mediocre white men.”


But since the vast majority of all people in the workforce and population are pretty mediocre, what y’all are really saying is that it’s fine for an individual to have their opportunities limited because of their race and gender if it squares up the  ledgers of representation grievances. That’s a real political problem for progressives, among other things. 
 

7 hours ago, safe sex said:

I think the dude is making a good chunk of it up tbh. His only other essay published under his name is essentially the same thing on the same site. 

Maybe he is, but I’ve seen a lot of what he’s describing. It was pretty pervasive at big companies and in tech for about a decade. Again, it’s going viral because people are recognizing their own experiences in the essay.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

A couple of unrelated points from a Gen Xer.

  • the writer says he struggles to get into the writers room because the “white guy” writer spots are taken up by older Gen X. I imagine the African American candidate feels the same when she sees that the 2 AA spots are filled as well. The East Asian candidate sees the Asian/Hispanic seat is already taken. And there is no designated seat for the South Asian guy.
  • while it’s fair that a Millennial may feel that Gen X are taking spots that he deserves, welcome to party, pal. We’ve been behind the larger Boomer group our entire existence. Millennials at least are behind the smaller Gen X. Gen X has a limited few years to be #1 in the job market. Let us maximize our prime earning years and we will get out of the way. Fuck man, there are still some boomers taking the highest paid spots.
  • Doors are often closed to younger workers but creators (entertainment, news) actually have self publishing avenues. Try being the supply chain or marketing guy. There isn’t a substack, social media or YouTube for them to showcase their work.

i agree that white men don’t have it as easy as past generations including mine. Some of them are not helping themselves by struggling to grow up.

Really good post- all I would say is that millennials have gotten the worst deal in American history. GenX had to wait. GenX didn’t have our financial futures intentionally destroyed in order to save the people who destroyed the economy and blew up the contract with labor. 



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