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Al_4_ISU

The Black Crowes Thread

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On 9/25/2019 at 3:43 AM, SwanderedTalent said:

Wow, so... that was a little underwhelming. I don't think it's just that I had built it up too much in my mind, although the anticipation probably had a little to do with it.  I think the main problem I had in reading it was, it really was just a hatchet job on Chris Robinson. 

I am in the "Gorman camp" as it pertains to the band-- I would define that as agreeing with Gorman that the Crowes didn't have the career they should have because the Robinson brothers (mostly Chris) made a lot of antagonistically stupid decisions. I absolutely believe that the band dissolved because Chris (for a number of reasons, none of them justifiable) basically demanded full financial control of the band. So I'm onboard with "Chris Robinson sabotaged the Black Crowes from 1993 on and ultimately killed the band out of spite". 

But, the portrait you get of Robinson from the book is just.... not totally believable. It is like hearing a depiction of one person you don't know, from another person you don't know, when the person providing the depiction has been emotionally wounded by the person they're describing. Like sitting at a bar and overhearing a woman run down her ex after a divorce. The ex might be the problem, he might be a complete asshole, and yet you feel like there's a lot more to the story than you're getting, a lot of "wait, why would he do THAT?" 

I'm not saying I don't believe it. I'm saying I don't understand it, and I expected the book would help me do that, and that's where the disappointment comes from. The Chris Robinson as detailed in the book is a weird, incomplete parody. A lot of the accounts of his behavior don't feel authentic reading them; they lack verisimilitude. 

Aside from that, what I found most interesting were the specifics about where they fucked up their career-- the specific decisions they made that could have changed their trajectory. Some of them were obvious and known, but ones like "could have opened on the GnR/Metallica tour in 1992 but wanted to headline small theaters instead", "got asked by their label to cover 'It's Only Rock And Roll' in 1998 and refused", "got asked to place a song on the Armageddon soundtrack and refused"... you add all that up, it takes a toll. 

That's a little unfortunate.  I've always thought in interviews/podcasts that Gorman walked a really good line of being honest about Chris Robinson without dipping into character assassination.  I mean, it's pretty obvious that Chris Robinson is a douche, but there's more to the Black Crowes story than that (as you point out).  I was going to seek this out on audio book (it's harvest, so I'm operating machinery 18 hours a day and have the time), but feel a little on the fence now.

Regarding their self sabotage, I don't know that any of those moves would have really made them bigger.  Their sound reached to anyone who gives a shit about that kind of music.  I think they maxed out their audience, all things considered.  Maybe some of those things would have given them a little more staying power on the radio, I guess, but I maintain that anyone who gives any shit about rock and roll and was alive in the 90's is familiar with them.

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7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's a little unfortunate.  I've always thought in interviews/podcasts that Gorman walked a really good line of being honest about Chris Robinson without dipping into character assassination.  I mean, it's pretty obvious that Chris Robinson is a douche, but there's more to the Black Crowes story than that (as you point out).  I was going to seek this out on audio book (it's harvest, so I'm operating machinery 18 hours a day and have the time), but feel a little on the fence now.

Regarding their self sabotage, I don't know that any of those moves would have really made them bigger.  Their sound reached to anyone who gives a shit about that kind of music.  I think they maxed out their audience, all things considered.  Maybe some of those things would have given them a little more staying power on the radio, I guess, but I maintain that anyone who gives any shit about rock and roll and was alive in the 90's is familiar with them.

Re: the first paragraph, you said that perfectly-- I think the book is out of step with what I have come to expect from Gorman on the subject. He's never minced words about Chris in interviews but as Abe Lemons once said, "Boy, cocksucker looks really bad on the printed page, doesn't it?". Reading anecdote after anecdote of Chris acting crazy and inexplicably unreasonable and then Steve gets the last word in and Chris walks off in a huff... it wasn't what I was expecting. You should still get the book IMO. 

Regarding the bolded part, I guess this is where my initial post wasn't clear since I've gotten this twice now. This is not me trying to map a course where the Black Crowes got any bigger or increased their audience. As Gorman says in one of the first paragraphs in the book, the band lost over 90% of its audience after 1993. THAT was preventable-- or, at least, arguably and partly so. They might not have stayed as big as they got in 1992 but they could certainly have remained as well-known and well-selling as say Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam stayed relevant a lot longer and was still making platinum/gold records when the Crowes were selling 100,000 and going on hiatus. 

Now, Pearl Jam is hardly a shining example of "always doing the smart thing for your career". I'm not arguing that, I'm using them as an example of a contemporary band that remained relevant longer (despite their own challenges). When you go from selling six million records to two million to 500,000, something inorganic is happening to your appeal as a band. It seems to me there was an alternate path, comprising multiple alternative decisions, by which the Crowes could have remained a tentpole band. 

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1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Re: the first paragraph, you said that perfectly-- I think the book is out of step with what I have come to expect from Gorman on the subject. He's never minced words about Chris in interviews but as Abe Lemons once said, "Boy, cocksucker looks really bad on the printed page, doesn't it?". Reading anecdote after anecdote of Chris acting crazy and inexplicably unreasonable and then Steve gets the last word in and Chris walks off in a huff... it wasn't what I was expecting. You should still get the book IMO. 

Regarding the bolded part, I guess this is where my initial post wasn't clear since I've gotten this twice now. This is not me trying to map a course where the Black Crowes got any bigger or increased their audience. As Gorman says in one of the first paragraphs in the book, the band lost over 90% of its audience after 1993. THAT was preventable-- or, at least, arguably and partly so. They might not have stayed as big as they got in 1992 but they could certainly have remained as well-known and well-selling as say Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam stayed relevant a lot longer and was still making platinum/gold records when the Crowes were selling 100,000 and going on hiatus. 

Now, Pearl Jam is hardly a shining example of "always doing the smart thing for your career". I'm not arguing that, I'm using them as an example of a contemporary band that remained relevant longer (despite their own challenges). When you go from selling six million records to two million to 500,000, something inorganic is happening to your appeal as a band. It seems to me there was an alternate path, comprising multiple alternative decisions, by which the Crowes could have remained a tentpole band. 

That's a good point.

That said, I do think that just based on stylistic differences, it would have been tougher for the Crowes to maintain that popularity than it would be for Pearl Jam.  Pearl Jam, while clearly rooted in classic rock, was playing a more contemporary sound.  The Black Crowes sound from Jump Street was always a revival of music that had been more popular in the past.  I just don't think that sound was built for long term success at the point in time they were coming on.

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20 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's a good point.

That said, I do think that just based on stylistic differences, it would have been tougher for the Crowes to maintain that popularity than it would be for Pearl Jam.  Pearl Jam, while clearly rooted in classic rock, was playing a more contemporary sound.  The Black Crowes sound from Jump Street was always a revival of music that had been more popular in the past.  I just don't think that sound was built for long term success at the point in time they were coming on.

Maybe so. The Crowes certainly weren't going to stay where they were musically on the first record, or even the second. I think Amorica was a contemporary, alt-rock-sounding 90s record, and maybe that wasn't what people wanted to hear from that band. Or, maybe, choosing cover art that meant the record wasn't stocked at Wal-Mart and Best Buy hurt sales, too. 

One of the things Gorman said in an interview and repeats in the book is that the Crowes wrote and recorded a few heavy, harder rock songs in 1992/3 but never released them-- intentionally scrapped them when it came time to write the Tall record. I really think releasing those songs on an EP (at the very least, when it became evident that the third record wouldn't be out until late 1994) might have helped maintain momentum, possibly expand their audience. 

But, they're my all-time favorite band. It's hard to know if anyone else would have been as impressed with Exit, The Fear Years, and The Nowhere Stairs as I was. Those are just huge, swaggering rock songs. 

 

 

Edited by SwanderedTalent

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6 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Maybe so. The Crowes certainly weren't going to stay where they were musically on the first record, or even the second. I think Amorica was a contemporary, alt-rock-sounding 90s record, and maybe that wasn't what people wanted to hear from that band. Or, maybe, choosing cover art that meant the record wasn't stocked at Wal-Mart and Best Buy hurt sales, too. 

One of the things Gorman said in an interview and repeats in the book is that the Crowes wrote and recorded a few heavy, harder rock songs in 1992/3 but never released them-- intentionally scrapped them when it came time to write the Tall record. I really think releasing those songs on an EP (at the very least, when it became evident that the third record wouldn't be out until late 1994) might have helped maintain momentum, possibly expand their audience. 

But, they're my all-time favorite band. It's hard to know if anyone else would have been as impressed with Exit, The Fear Years, and The Nowhere Stairs as I was. Those are just huge, swaggering rock songs. 

 

 

I wish Exit would have made the Lost Crowes anthology.

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I finished the audiobook last night.

I dunno, I pretty much believe what Gorman's saying.  It was obvious to me 20 years ago that Chris Robinson was delusional, and probably a bit mentally ill and it was being excused due to his immense talent.  Gorman goes out of his way at the end to point out that the story is obviously his biased, one-sided account, and that if you asked anyone else in the band to describe that tenure, it would look completely different.  He also does spend a lot of time pointing out the skills, qualities, and moments of real connection he had with Chris.

IMO, he painted Rich in a worse light than Chris.  I think a lot of that had to do with him and Chris having been really good friends in the Mr. Crowe's Garden era and before, so there was always that baseline in their relationship.  There were almost no non-musical compliments paid to Rich, and the section where he recounts the fallout between Rich and Jimmy Page may be the most vitriolic take down of someone I've ever heard.

It was very entertaining and enjoyable.  It reminded me why I love this band so much and have been listening to their music regularly for the past 30 years.  The only thing I wish we had gotten more of was in depth discussion of the creation of War Paint and Before the Frost.... Until the Freeze.  I love both of those albums, and think that was honestly one of their best iterations.  It's the line up I saw live, and they were incredibly tight with a set list that had just the right mix of hits, deep cuts, and covers.  Gorman really rushed through it, I think mostly because he was just fucking exhausted of telling the story.

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20 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I finished the audiobook last night.

I dunno, I pretty much believe what Gorman's saying. 

I'm glad you read the book. Again, I'm not saying he's lying or intentionally misrepresenting anything. I'm saying the way he portrays Chris Robinson doesn't feel fully authentic. I am not arguing that Chris isn't a crazy person, that he never acted bipolar, that he couldn't be a total hypocrite about money or even just an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. It just reminded me of this:

499.gif

Frankly, I blame it more on Eric Hyden than Steve Gorman. I don't think he did as good a job as he could have at drawing some of the anecdotes out. Or, maybe, Gorman didn't understand what made Chris tick in some situations and those are the ones where he fails to really capture the scene in a realistic way.

The Jimmy Page / Black Crowes thing-- I still think I'm processing that. I read it the first time and my only reaction was, "eh, figures", but people are really up in arms about it. The funny part to me is, I personally would have wanted to hear more original Black Crowes tunes than collaborations with Jimmy Page. That was always my attitude towards the Page/Crowes thing-- I didn't want to hear them doing Zeppelin tunes, at least past a certain point. Like it was a neat and fun idea, but at the time it felt like the Crowes were putting their own music on hiatus and no band's music ever reached me the way the Black Crowes did.

So I guess I would have been part of the problem.

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Posted (edited)

Oh and you are right about how abruptly the story ends-- possibly because he treated the Black Crowes as "a job" from 2006 on, as he says? If he wanted to nuke Chris Robinson, he could have confirmed or explored the stories I've always been told about the Warpaint era-- namely, Chris badly oversteered the Crowes to their Band/Dead/Dylan influences and rejected tons of the more swaggery blues-rock/Zeppelin stuff or quirky Crowes stuff Rich wanted to record. 

This song was great (Late Nights Again). Discarded. Because of course.

 

Edited by SwanderedTalent

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I'm glad you read the book. Again, I'm not saying he's lying or intentionally misrepresenting anything. I'm saying the way he portrays Chris Robinson doesn't feel fully authentic. I am not arguing that Chris isn't a crazy person, that he never acted bipolar, that he couldn't be a total hypocrite about money or even just an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. It just reminded me of this:

499.gif

Frankly, I blame it more on Eric Hyden than Steve Gorman. I don't think he did as good a job as he could have at drawing some of the anecdotes out. Or, maybe, Gorman didn't understand what made Chris tick in some situations and those are the ones where he fails to really capture the scene in a realistic way.

The Jimmy Page / Black Crowes thing-- I still think I'm processing that. I read it the first time and my only reaction was, "eh, figures", but people are really up in arms about it. The funny part to me is, I personally would have wanted to hear more original Black Crowes tunes than collaborations with Jimmy Page. That was always my attitude towards the Page/Crowes thing-- I didn't want to hear them doing Zeppelin tunes, at least past a certain point. Like it was a neat and fun idea, but at the time it felt like the Crowes were putting their own music on hiatus and no band's music ever reached me the way the Black Crowes did.

So I guess I would have been part of the problem.

I get ya.  I think that if it lacks any authenticity, it's simply because it's coming from one specific side of the story, and Gorman acknowledges as much at the end.

I suppose part of my problem is that I had formed a somewhat negative opinion of Chris Robinson a long, long time ago.  I was 5 when Shake Your Money Maker came out, and my old man bought it as soon as it hit rock radio in the Midwest.  That thing got worn out in our house and on road trips, and I've been a Black Crowes fan for as long as I've been aware of them.  I was starting to buy my own albums by 11 or so, and reading any music magazine (Circus, Spin, Rolling Stone) I could get my hands on.  Any interview I read with Chris, he just kinda came off like a douche.  I didn't feel any differently about the music of course.  So I suppose there's a level of confirmation bias on my part reading the point of view of someone who somewhat shares my opinion, but is obviously much more knowledgeable about the subject matter.

RE Jimmy Page, I agree with you musically.  I enjoy Live At the Greek, and think it would have been sad for the Black Crowes to simply become his back up band.  But I don't think that's where things were going, and the outrage about the way his situation was handled was due to the sheer hubris and lack of gratitude on Rich's part.  They committed to the tour, they had definitely seen a big uptick as a result of Jimmy's interest in them, and he couldn't have pushed Jimmy fucking Page out the door any faster.

Edited by Al_4_ISU

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Oh and you are right about how abruptly the story ends-- possibly because he treated the Black Crowes as "a job" from 2006 on, as he says? If he wanted to nuke Chris Robinson, he could have confirmed or explored the stories I've always been told about the Warpaint era-- namely, Chris badly oversteered the Crowes to their Band/Dead/Dylan influences and rejected tons of the more swaggery blues-rock/Zeppelin stuff or quirky Crowes stuff Rich wanted to record. 

This song was great (Late Nights Again). Discarded. Because of course.

 

I personally loved their Band influenced stuff.  The "Oh! Sweet Nuthin'" cover from Levon's studio is perfection to me.  Warpaint is in my Top 3 Crowes albums after Southern Harmony and Amorica.  Before the Frost has some great tunes as well.

I'm with you on being against the Dead influenced stuff.  CRB has always kinda sucked to me.  I do like the Dead a bit (would never identify as a Deadhead), and think Chris and his earlier band did a hell of a Sugaree cover, but that's about it on that front.

Edited by Al_4_ISU

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30 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I personally loved their Band influenced stuff.  The "Oh! Sweet Nuthin'" cover from Levon's studio is perfection to me.  Warpaint is in my Top 3 Crowes albums after Southern Harmony and Amorica.  Before the Frost has some great tunes as well.

I'm with you on being against the Dead influenced stuff.  CRB has always kinda sucked to me.  I do like the Dead a bit (would never identify as a Deadhead), and think Chris and his earlier band did a hell of a Sugaree cover, but that's about it on that front.

I love Warpaint, but I think they went too far in the Chris direction on Before the Frost. Warpaint still feels like a Black Crowes record; Goodbye Daughters sounds exactly like a Black Crowes song. BTF feels like them trying to sound a certain way-- that's what I meant by Band influence (and I love The Band, but there is a difference between sounding influenced and sounding derivative). 

On Chris/Steve-- what's funny about that to me is, I really liked Chris lashing out in interviews for a long time. Yeah! You tell 'em, Chris! Fuck the Smashing Pumpkins! I mean I guess I knew at some level he was a jerk, but it's really Gorman's radio commentary the past four years that clued me into how toxic it was to be around Chris and Rich. That might be the best insight I got from the book: the infighting between the brothers wasn't this cute but tragic sibling rivalry, it fucking sucked the life out of the human beings in and around the band. Gorman always came across as this happy-go-lucky type who had a really healthy detachment from the rock star cliche, so reading his description of how emotionally difficult it was to be a part of that really showed me how surface my opinions of all the people involved were. 

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Don't have the book. What's the deal with Page? Man's a god. Unless the guy is strong arming you into taking over your band, appreciate getting to play with him. Consider it getting to take a master class in guitar playing.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Deej said:

Don't have the book. What's the deal with Page? Man's a god. Unless the guy is strong arming you into taking over your band, appreciate getting to play with him. Consider it getting to take a master class in guitar playing.

Logically that is how a human being would respond. 

Then there's Rich Robinson. 

The story is thus: at some point in the first 11 shows out of 55 scheduled for the Page/Crowes tour in 2000, Page met with Robinson and casually offered to help the Crowes with their next record-- to play a solo on one of their songs, to produce a song, or even to work through some riffs he had written for Page/Plant that never ended up as finished songs. None of it was conditional; Page simply wanted to help the Crowes regain their "seat at the table" after they'd sold less than 300,000 copies each of their fourth and fifth records and had their first attempt at the fifth record rejected by their label. 

Robinson was like "nah dude, Chris and I have been writing, we've got enough material for the next record". 

I mean who could forget gems like this? Or possibly imagine Jimmy Page might be able to come up with something better? (the 3rd song I posted wasn't on the record, but was from the Lions sessions and I include it because it's the worst thing they ever recorded-- it was a B-side to something or other, who cares?). The Black Crowes were creatively (collectively) bankrupt by 2000* and maybe the greatest rock guitarist who ever lived said "I'd like to help" and the Robinson brothers turned him down. Page cut the tour short immediately and flew home to have back surgery he'd been putting off in order to stay on the road with a band with which he felt a kindship, after they repaid him by treating his further involvement in their careers as an imposition. 

 

 

* Rich could still write great riffs but as Gorman wrote, the band wasn't able to take advantage of them. They didn't turn into the songs they could or should have been. 

Edited by SwanderedTalent

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I've always kinda liked "Lickin'"

<ducks>

But there's no doubt Lions is their weakest album, and the sheer lack of appreciation for Jimmy fucking Page is galling in and of itself.

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20 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I've always kinda liked "Lickin'"

<ducks>

But there's no doubt Lions is their weakest album, and the sheer lack of appreciation for Jimmy fucking Page is galling in and of itself.

Lickin's not an abortion in and of itself-- it's not I Ain't Hiding (please don't tell me you like that one). But in the context of "Jimmy Page wants to jam on some of his riffs with you, see if they go anywhere", and you say "nah I'm good", and Lickin' is the first single off the record? No, you weren't good. 

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31 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Lickin's not an abortion in and of itself-- it's not I Ain't Hiding (please don't tell me you like that one). But in the context of "Jimmy Page wants to jam on some of his riffs with you, see if they go anywhere", and you say "nah I'm good", and Lickin' is the first single off the record? No, you weren't good. 

Agree 100%.

I don't care much for "I Ain't Hidin'".  It sounds like a disco song.

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5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Agree 100%.

I don't care much for "I Ain't Hidin'".  It sounds like a disco song.

Which underscores the lack of attention the book paid to that era. What, Chris just showed up to rehearsals and was like "I wrote a disco song! Let's learn it!" and they all just said "OK"...? Doubtful. 

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Even the uncorruptable Clash and the ultra-reliable Rolling Stones made some disco-ish songs (e.g., The Magnificent Seven, Miss You). 

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Posted (edited)

The Magnificent Seven was more English white boy rap. 

And I love that song. 

Edited by Deej

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How do you tell this guy to essentially "fuck off"?

 

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The analogy occurred to me this morning-- if you imagine Gorman's book directed specifically to the Robinson brothers, it's reminiscent of Mike Erhmentraut's harangue of Walter White, right before he dies, in Breaking Bad. 

All of this - falling apart like this - is on you! We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork! You could have shut your mouth, cooked, and made as much money as you ever needed! It was perfect! But no! You just had to blow it up! You, and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man! If you'd done your job, known your place, we'd all be fine right now!

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On 10/8/2019 at 7:06 AM, SwanderedTalent said:

The analogy occurred to me this morning-- if you imagine Gorman's book directed specifically to the Robinson brothers, it's reminiscent of Mike Erhmentraut's harangue of Walter White, right before he dies, in Breaking Bad. 

All of this - falling apart like this - is on you! We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork! You could have shut your mouth, cooked, and made as much money as you ever needed! It was perfect! But no! You just had to blow it up! You, and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man! If you'd done your job, known your place, we'd all be fine right now!

Yeah, that is spot fucking on.

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yeah count me out of seeing this one

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/the-black-crowes-2020-reunion-tour-rumors-heat-up/

 

A reunion of THE BLACK CROWES appears to be on the horizon. According to The Wall Street Journal, several sources close to the band aren't denying that a 2020 tour is being planned. The group's former drummer, Steve Gorman, has been informed of a potential comeback, although he was not approached to participate. Former manager Pete Angelus said that he is "aware of the deal" that Chris and Rich Robinson "made with Live Nation for a 2020 tour," while another source that is "familiar with the matter" simply said that "there might be something in the works."

THE BLACK CROWES have been inactive since they played their final show in December 2013.

Last year, Chris put together a band called AS THE CROW FLIES to perform primarily BLACK CROWES songs. Joining the singer in the initial version of the group were fellow former CROWES members Adam MacDougall, Andy Hess and Audley Freed, plus Marcus King and Tony Leone.

Rich Robinson is currently involved with THE MAGPIE SALUTE in which he is joined by Marc Ford from THE BLACK CROWES, bassist Sven Pipien (also from the CROWES) along with lead singer John Hogg (HOOKAH BROWN, MOKE), drummer Joe Magistro and guitarist Nico Bereciartua.

In a recent interview, Gorman said that Rich and Chris Robinson will "probably be on the road soon together with a whole new band calling it THE BLACK CROWES."

THE BLACK CROWES drummer and co-founder, whose "Hard To Handle: The Life And Death Of The Black Crowes - A Memoir" was released last month, made his comments while promoting the book on the Detroit radio station WRIF.

Speaking about THE BLACK CROWES' untimely demise, Gorman told WRIF's Meltdown: "The band blew up in 2014 in a manner that will never be anything short of disgusting. Chris demanded all the money, after 27 years, from not only me, but from his brother. 'If we're gonna continue, I need all the money,' basically, was what he demanded. And, of course, Rich and I said 'no,' and that was the end of THE BLACK CROWES. It was an insane thing for him to have done. Right when we were about to do a 25th-anniversary-slash-farewell tour — we were gonna wrap it up and say, 'This is it,' and we just wanna thank our fans and thank each other and just go out on a high, for once. That wasn't possible… And when it happened, it was so over the top, it was kind of laughable. And Rich and I literally did laugh — we were, like, 'Oh my God! Are you kidding?' So that was the end of the band."

...

The drummer went on to say that Chris and Rich will likely be reuniting on stage soon out of necessity more so than a genuine desire to be creative together.

"I don't think either one of 'em wants to do it," Gorman said. "In a perfect world, I don't think they'd ever be in the same room together again. I just don't think they have a lot of options right now."

 

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will be interested to see who rounds out the band. not opposed to seeing them. 

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The drummer went on to say that Chris and Rich will likely be reuniting on stage soon out of necessity more so than a genuine desire to be creative together.

"I don't think either one of 'em wants to do it," Gorman said. "In a perfect world, I don't think they'd ever be in the same room together again. I just don't think they have a lot of options right now."

In a nutshell.

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11 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm not Interested in a Gorman-less reunion.

Well, if Marc Ford is playing lead maybe,

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't go. Just for me, personally, without Eddie and Steve, it's not REALLY the Black Crowes. Without Eddie, Steve, Marc, and Johnny, it is absolutely not the Black Crowes. If nothing else, I hope the brothers have the grace not to call it a reunion. 

I should point out that I don't actually blame the Robinson brothers for Eddie not being a part of the reunion. 

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I'm not saying anyone shouldn't go. Just for me, personally, without Eddie and Steve, it's not REALLY the Black Crowes. Without Eddie, Steve, Marc, and Johnny, it is absolutely not the Black Crowes. If nothing else, I hope the brothers have the grace not to call it a reunion. 
I should point out that I don't actually blame the Robinson brothers for Eddie not being a part of the reunion. 


Same. I won’t criticize anyone who goes, but it should really be billed as the Robinson Bros instead of Black Crowes. Like you said, without any of Marc, Gorm, Johnny, or Ed (obviously impossible), it’s something else

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I don't think it will happen. My theory is that Rich only went in with Chris on the deal to "potentially" do a tour is so Chris couldn't do it without him and call it The Black Crowes. I get the feeling from what I have read that nobody else fro the former band wants to do it.

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9 hours ago, DougO said:

I don't think it will happen. My theory is that Rich only went in with Chris on the deal to "potentially" do a tour is so Chris couldn't do it without him and call it The Black Crowes. I get the feeling from what I have read that nobody else fro the former band wants to do it.

well.... it seems like something is afoot

https://www.jambase.com/article/the-black-crowes-reunion-billboard

The Black Crowes Tease Reunion On Website, Social Feeds & Billboard

  • Oct 28, 2019
  • 9:50 am PDT
  • Scott Bernstein
Black Crowes Logo 2019

The Black Crowes‘ website and social feeds have been updated with a new logo for the band giving credence to reports Chris Robinson and Rich Robinson are reuniting. In addition, a billboard with the new logo was spotted in New Jersey at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel.

Earlier this month, the Wall Street Journal published a report indicating the Robinson Brothers will embark on a Black Crowes tour in 2020. The article included word from former manager Pete Angelus who told the WSJ, “I’m aware of the deal that the brothers made with Live Nation for a 2020 tour.” Another source added, “There might be something in the works” and former drummer Steve Gorman revealed he’s heard rumblings of a reunion and wasn’t asked to participate. “They are going to move forward with new people,” Gorman said.

 

Today, images of the band’s logo have been posted on the new Instagram feed, @TheBlackCrowes. Additionally, the image appears on TheBlackCrowes.com, the band’s Twitter feed and the group’s Facebook page.

Check out an image of the logo spotted at 9:30 a.m. ET by fan Michael Caronia at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel:

Black Crowes Billboard

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What I wish that was all about was a circa-1990 style* boxed set of all of their shit. The stories of Tall and Band have been told a million times, but there are at least two albums' worth of (non-contiguously recorded) studio-quality unreleased stuff in their vaults. Throw that together with B-sides and then the studio albums and that right there would be one motherfucker of a boxed set. I don't really care about a reunion tour at this point.

I guess in this day and age that's not much of a moneymaker (no pun intended) but if any band's diehards would spend $150 on something like that, it's those of the Black Crowes. 

* this wasn't clear when I pressed "Save"-- meaning, the kind of boxed set a band would put out around 1990, like the Led Zeppelin sets. The Zeppelin sets were hugely influential for me. 

Edited by SwanderedTalent

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Whatever the case, I hope it doesn't end the Magpie Salute. But it probably would.

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26 minutes ago, DougO said:

Whatever the case, I hope it doesn't end the Magpie Salute. But it probably would.

I agree, and thought the Magpie Salute was a pretty good band, but the writing was on the wall when they put a placeholder website up and didn't have a real one ready to go in time for the album release a few weeks ago. That to me indicated the band itself was just a placeholder. 

One aspect of this that doesn't get talked about as much is, I think Rich Robinson wants to be in the Black Crowes a lot more than he wants to do anything else. All the time he was saying "Chris killed the band' and "the band is done", what he meant was "unless Chris wants to do it again, in which case, I take back all the bad stuff". 

If we get a new record out of it (questionable), I'll buy it the instant it comes out. That, I cannot resist. 

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the pushing out of Jimmy Page is mind bottling.  Page certainly has some quirks but he always seemed like a guy that just wanted to play guitar with great musicians and fuck all the other bullshit.  maybe that came from his days as a session guy.  no airs just play and create great music.  that was what the Black Crowes were supposed to be about as well.

dude founded what is certainly one of the top 3 bands in rock n roll history(no I don't want to start that discussion).  All you have to do is say.  "yeah lets put something on the calendar and do it."

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3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I agree, and thought the Magpie Salute was a pretty good band, but the writing was on the wall when they put a placeholder website up and didn't have a real one ready to go in time for the album release a few weeks ago. That to me indicated the band itself was just a placeholder. 

One aspect of this that doesn't get talked about as much is, I think Rich Robinson wants to be in the Black Crowes a lot more than he wants to do anything else. All the time he was saying "Chris killed the band' and "the band is done", what he meant was "unless Chris wants to do it again, in which case, I take back all the bad stuff". 

If we get a new record out of it (questionable), I'll buy it the instant it comes out. That, I cannot resist. 

I think it's simpler than that. The bottom line is a band called Magpie Salute, which is probably perceived by many as a substitute for the real Black Crowes, if seen at all, just doesn't draw and bring in the huge bucks like a band called The Black Crowes, that is really just a substitute for the real Black Crowes.

Rich probably hoped that Crowes fans would follow him and bring the hoards of fans, but it just didn't happen to a significant enough degree.

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It's a shame that John Hogg will be back in the dark, back away from any spotlight he had rightly earned with TMS. Moke was awesome and it's a damn shame they got no support.

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the lead singer is kind of a big deal to most fans, whether or not that lead singer is an asshole is largely irrelevant. 

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as great of a guy as he seems to be...it's not that hard to replace a drummer. 

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3 hours ago, stc said:

as great of a guy as he seems to be...it's not that hard to replace a drummer. 

In terms of just selling tickets, probably not.

It's definitely not going to sound the same, and to a certain segment of their fanbase, it's a huge turn off.  Once a band drifts too far from it's original line up, it becomes something cheaper, and lesser.  The chemistry those musicians had together isn't that easily replaceable, so while I'm sure the guys they bring in will be pros that knock out competent and obviously recognizable versions of the songs, it won't be the same.

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TMS High Water II came out a couple of weeks ago. I haven't bought it yet, almost don't want to because I'm afraid that band has no future any more and it pisses me off.

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Austin June 17

Dallas June 19

Woodlands June 20

 

But like everyone, I'd like to know who is with Chris and Rich?

Edited by Don Johnson

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17 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Austin June 17

Dallas June 19

Woodlands June 20

 

But like everyone, I'd like to know who is with Chris and Rich?

JamBase via Rolling Stone says

Chris and Rich will be backed by guitarist Isaiah Mitchell of Earthless and former Tedeschi Trucks Band bassist Tim Lefebvre as well as Once & Future Band members Joel Robinow on keyboards and drummer Raj Ojha

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