The West's huge migrant crisis

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/03/28/paris-murder-stokes-fears-rising-anti-semitism-in-france-europe.html

Quote

The grisly murder of an 85-year-old Holocaust survivor in Paris is stoking fears of an escalation in anti-Semitism across France and Europe, where Jewish communities in a number of countries have felt increasingly threatened in recent years. 

Mireille Knoll was found dead on Friday in her home, stabbed multiple times before her apartment was set ablaze. The two suspects arrested in the case, still unidentified by officials, were both in their 20s, and had criminal records. One of the men knew the victim since he was 7, according to reports.

Thousands of Parisians marched on Wednesday to honor Knoll's memory, and to speak out against anti-Semitism across France. Among those who participated were political parties from the far right and left, some of whom have themselves been accused of fostering anti-Semitism. 

But even before Knoll was killed, the Jewish community in France had expressed concerns about an anti-Semitic resurgence. Just last year, a 28-year-old Muslim man from Mali threw his Jewish neighbor, a 65-year-old doctor, to her death from the window of her third-floor apartment in Paris.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566689/London-murder-rate-overtakes-New-York-time-including-11-killings-just-16-days.html

Quote

London murder rate is HIGHER than New York's for the first time ever after TWELVE killings in just 19 days

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-31/huge-caravan-central-americans-headed-us-border-hopes-asylum

Quote

Over 1,500 Central Americans are on a crusade across Mexico in the hopes of being granted asylum at the U.S. border - a move which is set to pose an enormous challenge to the Trump administration's much campaigned about immigration policies, while reminding Trump's base that they still don't have the wall they elected him to build 14 months into his presidency. 

"We want to become one, supporting us shoulder to shoulder and show that together we can break down borders," say the caravan's organizers.

About 80% of them are from Honduras. Many said they are fleeing poverty, but also political unrest and violence that followed the swearing in of Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández after a highly contested election last year. The group often breaks into chants of “out with JOH.” They also chant “we aren't immigrants, we're international workers” and “the people united will never be defeated.”

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by SmokeyBear1861

[udaydanceparty 33]

The optics are so bad on this you have to wonder if the people who organized this march were actually anti-immigration. 

[bad_teammate 13018]

Interesting attempt to tie anti-Semitic violence in Europe to South/Central American immigration in America. And by "interesting" I mean "predictably dishonest".

Quote

They also chant “we aren't immigrants, we're international workers”

Singing straight to my heart with that shit.

El pueblo unido, jamás será vencido!

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

17 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

The optics are so bad on this you have to wonder if the people who organized this march were actually anti-immigration. 

http://www.pueblosinfronteras.org/

They don't appear to be anti-immigration.

Hot wheels is saying Fuck off we're full. 

[InkaUtexas 24820]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Interesting attempt to tie anti-Semitic violence in Europe to South/Central American immigration in America. And by "interesting" I mean "predictably dishonest".

Singing straight to my heart with that shit.

El pueblo unido, jamás será vencido!

Maduro loves this song. 

 

 

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Interesting attempt to tie anti-Semitic violence in Europe to South/Central American immigration in America. And by "interesting" I mean "predictably dishonest".

Singing straight to my heart with that shit.

El pueblo unido, jamás será vencido!

Look at the title of the thread.

[Parliament 13979]

Let's give them free bus tickets to Florida.

[bad_teammate 13018]

6 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

Look at the title of the thread.

Yes, I get it, you're a white supremacist. You transition from criminal acts in the first two to the simple existence of non-white people in the final.

[Fozzz 152]

White genocide talk is not going away.

[udaydanceparty 33]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, I get it, you're a white supremacist. You transition from criminal acts in the first two to the simple existence of non-white people in the final.

It has nothing to do with race.  Refugees bring their problems with them.  Antisemitism is suddenly a big problem in Europe and it's most likely caused by the influx of migrants who are most definitely antisemitic.  Within the middle east, outside of Israel it's pretty popular to chant "Death to Israel".   I seriously doubt it's unrelated.

[bad_teammate 13018]

3 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

It has nothing to do with race.  Refugees bring their problems with them.  Antisemitism is suddenly a big problem in Europe and it's most likely caused by the influx of migrants who are most definitely antisemitic.  Within the middle east, outside of Israel it's pretty popular to chant "Death to Israel".   I seriously doubt it's unrelated.

Then why are the South/Central American immigrants mentioned alongside the anti-Semitic Muslims?

(It's because they are also non-white.)

[udaydanceparty 33]

33 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

http://www.pueblosinfronteras.org/

They don't appear to be anti-immigration.

 

Either this is an anti-immigration group that intends to use these people as pawns to create horrible optics for the opposition or this is the stupidest pro-immigration group on the face of the earth. 

There is little more that Trump could ask for right now than to have these kinds of pictures popping up when he's trying to build the wall.  Especially right before midterms.

[Jive Turkey 12194]

10 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

It has nothing to do with race.  Refugees bring their problems with them.  Antisemitism is suddenly a big problem in Europe and it's most likely caused by the influx of migrants who are most definitely antisemitic.  Within the middle east, outside of Israel it's pretty popular to chant "Death to Israel".   I seriously doubt it's unrelated.

You’re an idiot. The rise of nationalist parties in France and Germany and Greece and Italy and Hungary and Poland, etc, is responsible for reigniting anti-semitism in Europe. It’s not “suddenly” a problem, you dolt. It’s long been a problem. Do you remember something called World War II? It’s just now more acceptable to Be an anti-Semite in the guise of political expression.

But don’t let your hatred of brown people get in the way of blaming anti-semitism on immigrants. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Jive Turkey

[udaydanceparty 33]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Then why are the South/Central American immigrants mentioned alongside the anti-Semitic Muslims?

(It's because they are also non-white.)

What counts as white?  Are these people white?

 

Pretty much all of the Western Hemisphere has populations that are primarily of European dissent.  Spain, Portugal, France and the UK colonized it.  Your average "white" American is typically just as European as they are.  It's not race or skin pigment that is causing a problem.  It's about people fleeing poverty and the US trying to limit how many people they let in so they can properly integrate and assimilate into society. 

I don't know if the current influx is too high or too low or how much we can handle.  I do think that those things need to be monitored and policy makers need to make sure that whatever laws we agree to are enforced.

Edited April 2, 2018 by udaydanceparty

[Parliament 13979]

I dislike trashy unskilled white folks as much as any other race, and I don't want more of them either.  Unfortunately we can't deport Oklahoma.  Illegal Hondurans we can.  And should.

[udaydanceparty 33]

5 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

You’re an idiot. The rise of nationalist parties in France and Germany and Greece and Italy and Hungary and Poland, etc, is responsible for reigniting anti-semitism in Europe. It’s not “suddenly” a problem, you dolt. It’s long been a problem. Do you remember something called World War II? It’s just now more acceptable to Be an anti-Semite in the guise of political expression.

But don’t let your hatred of brown people get in the way of blaming anti-semitism on immigrants. 

Sure.. there was way more antisemitism in Europe over the last 20 years than there was here in the States.  That being said, the rise over the past 5-6 years had much more to do with the refugee influx.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-barber/muslim-migrants-fan-europ_b_9395896.html

Quote

This threat to Jewish communities in Europe comes from three sides:
 Traditional right-wing neo-Nazi groups;
 Leftists siding with Arab anti-Zionist complaints;
 And the new juggernaut of anti-Semitic feelings —more than a million Arab and Muslim migrants last year and another 100,000 so far this year. They come from countries where hatred of Jews is part of the culture.

 

As I said before.. I don't know what the right level of immigration is for the US and whether we need more or less.  I do think that the optics of this migration is bad though.

 

 

[wildcat09 28387]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Then why are the South/Central American immigrants mentioned alongside the anti-Semitic Muslims?

(It's because they are also non-white.)

I've always been impressed with the ability of white supremacists to consider Jews non-white except for when they're victims of Muslim-perpetrated violence.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566689/London-murder-rate-overtakes-New-York-time-including-11-killings-just-16-days.html

 

 

Its still on pace to be below its all time high in 2005.  The real "story" there is how low NYC's murder rate currently is.  Its on pace to be half of last year which was already its all time low.  You may not be familiar with NYC since you're from bumfuck, but its the most diverse city in the world, and also has around a million Muslims in and around it.

And of course, it ain't only Muslims, or even mostly Muslims, doing the murdering in London.

Edited April 2, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[udaydanceparty 33]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I've always been impressed with the ability of white supremacists to consider Jews non-white except for when they're victims of Muslim-perpetrated violence.

I thought it was a religion.

[Foosters 17624]

It has nothing to do with race.  Refugees bring their problems with them.  Antisemitism is suddenly a big problem in Europe and it's most likely caused by the influx of migrants who are most definitely antisemitic.  Within the middle east, outside of Israel it's pretty popular to chant "Death to Israel".   I seriously doubt it's unrelated.

Nothing to do with race? Just so you're aware, OP holds the record for most bannings from Shaggy for overtly racist comments and posts.

[RDCanecutter 25767]

I like eggs.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by RDCanecutter
i can't spel either

[bad_teammate 13018]

We must protect our heritage.

We must secure a future for our children.

We must preserve our legacy. We are the ones who painted the ceiling of the Sistine chapel, who wrote the symphonies, who penned the greatest dramas, romances, and tragedies of the world.

We are... the master race.

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

10 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

The Decline of the West is evident from the pidgin English used in the thread title.

"The West's huge migrant crisis" is what we need in this our hour of peril.

 

Numbers guy, not a spelling bee champ.

A good video on the current situation at the Southern border:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLTfHybr8mU

I feel bad for actual refugees and those seeking asylum, just like other legal immigrants, are being completely screwed by those who don't want to follow the laws and abuse the system.

Democrats want the easy votes, and Republicans want cheap labor. Both ruling classes of elites won't have to deal with the negative consequences of allowing mass illegal immigration.

Edited April 2, 2018 by SmokeyBear1861

[David Dennison 17660]

Wow. A scared white person. We finally found a unicorn.

[Fozzz 152]

36 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

Either this is an anti-immigration group that intends to use these people as pawns to create horrible optics for the opposition or this is the stupidest pro-immigration group on the face of the earth. 

There is little more that Trump could ask for right now than to have these kinds of pictures popping up when he's trying to build the wall.  Especially right before midterms.

lol you know this guy would be an avid Fidesz or PiS supporter if he lived in those countries but he is worried about rising antisemitism in Europe.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Fozzz

[27-25 2030]

43 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Unfortunately we can't deport Oklahoma.

If we invoke the "nuclear option" in the senate, can we at least try?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, udaydanceparty said:

It has nothing to do with race.  Refugees bring their problems with them.  Antisemitism is suddenly a big problem in Europe and it's most likely caused by the influx of migrants who are most definitely antisemitic.  Within the middle east, outside of Israel it's pretty popular to chant "Death to Israel".   I seriously doubt it's unrelated.

Actually, its been on the rise since the reunification of Germany and the accession of much of Eastern Europe. Y'all like to forget that Europe and Germany in particular are historically far more anti-semitic than Arabs. Its weird that yall always completely pretend that WW2 and the holocaust never happened. However, West Germany and France had that mostly beaten out of them.  Under Soviet rule, East Germany and Eastern Europe never got the memo that anti-semitism or the idea of ethnic superiority is bad. Its why the vast majority of the German ethnonationalists come from the East, and much of Eastern Europe is currently breaking on ethnic divides. It wasn't so long ago that the former Yugoslavia was a shitshow of attempted ethnic cleansings. 

[udaydanceparty 33]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

1 hour ago, udaydanceparty said:

It has nothing to do with race.  Refugees bring their problems with them.  Antisemitism is suddenly a big problem in Europe and it's most likely caused by the influx of migrants who are most definitely antisemitic.  Within the middle east, outside of Israel it's pretty popular to chant "Death to Israel".   I seriously doubt it's unrelated.

Nothing to do with race? Just so you're aware, OP holds the record for most bannings from Shaggy for overtly racist comments and posts.

I am reading what's here on this thread about this issue.  I don't care about the motives of the OP but if he says something racist, I have no problem calling him out for it.  So far, I haven't see it.

I'd much prefer to have a dialogue that talks about the issues rather than just throwing ad hominem attacks at one another.  It seems so divisive.. 

I am sure there are some "racist" people who don't want people from Honduras migrating to the US, even though 91% of the population is from European descent and 97% of the population is Catholic.  It seems to be that the only people who are arguing that "race" is a factor are the people trying to smear their political opponents.  I don't see anyone actually providing an actual counter argument and I wish someone would.

What is the appropriate amount of immigrants that our country can take in?  If we are beyond that point, how do you pick who can come and who can't?  Consider me a neutral party on this issue because I really don't know the answer to these questions. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

I am reading what's here on this thread about this issue.  I don't care about the motives of the OP but if he says something racist, I have no problem calling him out for it.  So far, I haven't see it.

I'd much prefer to have a dialogue that talks about the issues rather than just throwing ad hominem attacks at one another.  It seems so divisive.. 

I am sure there are some "racist" people who don't want people from Honduras migrating to the US, even though 91% of the population is from European descent and 97% of the population is Catholic.  It seems to be that the only people who are arguing that "race" is a factor are the people trying to smear their political opponents.  I don't see anyone actually providing an actual counter argument and I wish someone would.

What is the appropriate amount of immigrants that our country can take in?  If we are beyond that point, how do you pick who can come and who can't?  Consider me a neutral party on this issue because I really don't know the answer to these questions. 

When you say "our country", I assume you mean the USA?  Immigration to Europe and its handling of immigrants has little bearing on what we do or can do in the USA.  Europe is densely populated already and not procreating at replacement rate.  They're trying to stave off a population decline.  We are sparsely populated and still have plenty room for growth even absent an anemic procreation rate.  Our economic system is also entirely growth based and we require constant population growth to feed it.  We certainly don't want to put ourselves in a European or Japanese position where population contraction leads to economic contraction.  

 

Furthermore, we have always taken all comers.  Europe hasn't.  We will always handle immigration better than they will because 99% of us are immigrants or come from immigrants ourselves.  When your ancestors got off the mat in Europe and left whatever ethnocentric country they came from, they came to a place where everyone was coming, got along as best they could, and later on accepted each other as Americans.  That made your ancestors different from those they left behind.   We aren't a "European" nation.  We're a nation of immigrants.  

[udaydanceparty 33]

25 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Actually, its been on the rise since the reunification of Germany and the accession of much of Eastern Europe. Y'all like to forget that Europe and Germany in particular are historically far more anti-semitic than Arabs. Its weird that yall always completely pretend that WW2 and the holocaust never happened. However, West Germany and France had that mostly beaten out of them.  Under Soviet rule, East Germany and Eastern Europe never got the memo that anti-semitism or the idea of ethnic superiority is bad. Its why the vast majority of the German ethnonationalists come from the East, and much of Eastern Europe is currently breaking on ethnic divides. It wasn't so long ago that the former Yugoslavia was a shitshow of attempted ethnic cleansings. 

 

No one is arguing that antisemitism didn't exist in Europe before the migrant crisis started in Europe.  The point was that you've seen a dramatic increase after the refugees arrived. 

I don't think that it's off base to say that antisemitism has been rooted into the culture of many of the people within the middle east.   Having an influx of people with antisemitic beliefs is probably one of the reasons you've see a rise in antisemitism.  Look at the favorability ratings of Jews in Europe vs the middle east..

 

The jewish community (and by extension the media that writes on their behalf) also seem to believe that to be the case.  They are publishing plenty of article online talking about it.

https://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/13/study-exposes-depth-of-muslim-antisemitism-in-europe/

 

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

17 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

 

No one is arguing that antisemitism didn't exist in Europe before the migrant crisis started in Europe.  The point was that you've seen a dramatic increase after the refugees arrived. 

I don't think that it's off base to say that antisemitism has been rooted into the culture of many of the people within the middle east.   Having an influx of people with antisemitic beliefs is probably one of the reasons you've see a rise in antisemitism.  Look at the favorability ratings of Jews in Europe vs the middle east..

 

The jewish community (and by extension the media that writes on their behalf) also seem to believe that to be the case.  They are publishing plenty of article online talking about it.

https://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/13/study-exposes-depth-of-muslim-antisemitism-in-europe/

 

 

You're missing the entirety of Eastern Europe in your poll.  Also, if you're actually interested in honest discussion (which I doubt), find a split in favorability between East and West Germany.  I would bet that West Germany matches France, and East Germany is around 30%.

Plus, you need to show before and after polls for places where refugees reside.  They showed a willingness and capability to leave a country which you also failed to show a poll for.  A refugee in Germany will now show up under a  German poll.

We're seeing an increase in anti-semitic crime in the US too, but Muslims aren't perpetrating it.  Racists emboldened by Trump are doing so.  Its pretty clear from Brexit, Le Pen's popularity, and the rise of German ethno-nationalism, that racists are emboldened in Europe as well.  So you can blame Muslims all you want (and I'm not arguing that none of them bear any latent animosity toward Jewish people), but its white folks that are committing most of these hate crimes against Jewish people.

Edited April 2, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[wildcat09 28387]

Europe has a population of over 740 million people. It seems like quite a stretch to attribute a big swing in the feelings of Europeans about Jews to the influx of an additional ~ 1 million.

[udaydanceparty 33]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Furthermore, we have always taken all comers. 

 

Factually incorrect.

Immigration Act of 1882 was when the US began to impose limitations on immigration.  Same year they excluded all Chinese immigrants for 10 years.  1885 they passed the Alien Contract Labor law which banned the importation of foreign labor.  Immigration Act of 1891 allowed the US government to deport illegal immigrants.   First permanent hard cap on immigration was the Johnson Reed act in 1924 along with the "National Origins Formula" the same year.  There are also plenty of other instances where the US government acted like shit heads with regard to immigrants so the argument of tradition is complete bullshit. 

Either way..  legislation of the past wasn't always the right thing to do and we really should think for ourselves on this issue. 

I have the belief that it's a good thing to have migrants, but I do think there comes a point where it's unsustainable.  I just don't know the numbers where we are getting the most people we can without it causing problems.  How many people can we handle take in every year before it becomes a drain on our system?

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, udaydanceparty said:

 

Factually incorrect.

Immigration Act of 1882 was when the US began to impose limitations on immigration.  Same year they excluded all Chinese immigrants for 10 years.  1885 they passed the Alien Contract Labor law which banned the importation of foreign labor.  Immigration Act of 1891 allowed the US government to deport illegal immigrants.   First permanent hard cap on immigration was the Johnson Reed act in 1924 along with the "National Origins Formula" the same year.  There are also plenty of other instances where the US government acted like shit heads with regard to immigrants so the argument of tradition is complete bullshit. 

Either way..  legislation of the past wasn't always the right thing to do and we really should think for ourselves on this issue. 

I have the belief that it's a good thing to have migrants, but I do think there comes a point where it's unsustainable.  I just don't know the numbers where we are getting the most people we can without it causing problems.  How many people can we handle take in every year before it becomes a drain on our system?

 

We would benefit from maintaining our current immigration rate until we double or triple our population.  Immigrants simply aren't a drain on our system.  Especially illegal immigrants who pass a physical endurance test to get here.  Americans are the drain.  Population growth is good economically, and necessary due to the design of our end-of-life welfare system.  Alternatively, we could incentivize parenthood as they've started to do in Europe and Japan.  Instead, we've made parenthood an economic disadvantage that is ridiculously expensive.

[udaydanceparty 33]

14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We would benefit from maintaining our current immigration rate until we double or triple our population.  Immigrants simply aren't a drain on our system.  Especially illegal immigrants who pass a physical endurance test to get here.  Americans are the drain.  Population growth is good economically, and necessary due to the design of our end-of-life welfare system.  Alternatively, we could incentivize parenthood as they've started to do in Europe and Japan.  Instead, we've made parenthood an economic disadvantage that is ridiculously expensive.

Lots of claims and ideas here you are jump around with.  Can you show any of them have cause and effect or correlation?  It doesn't seem like population growth helped places like India or China.  Seems like on a per capita basis, Switzerland seems to be doing a hell of a lot better than them and have for a long time.  Or South Korea...  Japan.  There doesn't seem to be a linear relationship between population growth and economic prosperity. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

China is lower than Mexico on a per capita basis.

------------------------------

As for the americans are the drain part..

I find it hard to believe that in a world with finite resources, more people would always be a good thing.  Especially when we know that migrant families are significantly more likely to be on government assistance than people who were born here.  That's not a knock on them, but a reality that they don't have established relationships and a social safety net that a family would normally provide. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

35 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

Lots of claims and ideas here you are jump around with.  Can you show any of them have cause and effect or correlation?  It doesn't seem like population growth helped places like India or China.  Seems like on a per capita basis, Switzerland seems to be doing a hell of a lot better than them and have for a long time.  Or South Korea...  Japan.  There doesn't seem to be a linear relationship between population growth and economic prosperity. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

China is lower than Mexico on a per capita basis.

------------------------------

As for the americans are the drain part..

I find it hard to believe that in a world with finite resources, more people would always be a good thing.  Especially when we know that migrant families are significantly more likely to be on government assistance than people who were born here.  That's not a knock on them, but a reality that they don't have established relationships and a social safety net that a family would normally provide. 

Actually, population growth did help all of those countries.  The 1 child policy is a known problem for China's economic future right now.  Japan's shrinking and aging population has long been an economic problem.  Its becoming one for SK.  If you recall, both of their economic booms coincided with a population boom becoming working age.  Also, Switzerland is not an island and every EU citizen is able to enter freely and work.  It is able to grow economically through the growth of the EU, primarily by providing a niche industry to the EU.  It isn't doing as well as Monaco though who never grows either and provides another niche.  But we aren't a city-state nor are we a small part of a larger union, so we can't replicate the Swiss model.

The world does have finite resources.  So does the USA. The question you asked was not whether there was any sustainable population limit for the USA, it was what that limit was.  We aren't even close to it.  We could hold over a billion comfortably.

[udaydanceparty 33]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Also, Switzerland is not an island and every EU citizen is able to enter freely and work.  It is able to grow economically through the growth of the EU, primarily by providing a niche industry to the EU.  It isn't doing as well as Monaco though who never grows either and provides another niche.  But we aren't a city-state nor are we a small part of a larger union, so we can't replicate the Swiss model.

The world does have finite resources.  So does the USA. The question you asked was not whether there was any sustainable population limit for the USA, it was what that limit was.  We aren't even close to it.  We could hold over a billion comfortably.

Switzerland is way crazy strict on immigration and there are heavy restrictions on EU citizens that try to work there.  How many refugees do you think Switzerland took in?

I also don't know when banking became niche, but it's cute that you think that Switzerland was prosperous because of the EU when they are pretty much the only part of Europe that tells the rest of the continent to go fuck itself on a regular basis.  Horrible example. 

 

------------------

I never asked what the sustainable population limit was for the USA, but rather at what point additional immigration would become a net loss for the country.   In your scenario, you'd be cool with immigrating ~650 million people into the USA without any regard for the social consequences.  Do you really think the country would be better off if we did that overnight?  I don't think we'd have the infrastructure to handle it let alone the impact of government services.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about immigration from just south/central America.  I'm asking about immigration from anywhere because eventually you can't take in more migrants because as I pointed out before, immigrants (all races) are more likely to end up on government assistance than people who are native born.  You'll run out of money at some point.  Wouldn't it be cheaper to just stop subsidizing abortions at planned parent in the hood?  Doesn't that hurt economic growth?

There are obviously other variables to consider but I don't see anything but arbitrary numbers and "this sounds good so i'll say it" talking points.    I don' think GDP growth is the only measurement we should take into consideration but it's certainly a big one. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

9 minutes ago, udaydanceparty said:

Switzerland is way crazy strict on immigration and there are heavy restrictions on EU citizens that try to work there.  How many refugees do you think Switzerland took in?

I also don't know when banking became niche, but it's cute that you think that Switzerland was prosperous because of the EU when they are pretty much the only part of Europe that tells the rest of the continent to go fuck itself on a regular basis.  Horrible example. 

 

------------------

I never asked what the sustainable population limit was for the USA, but rather at what point additional immigration would become a net loss for the country.   In your scenario, you'd be cool with immigrating ~650 million people into the USA without any regard for the social consequences.  Do you really think the country would be better off if we did that overnight?  I don't think we'd have the infrastructure to handle it let alone the impact of government services.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about immigration from just south/central America.  I'm asking about immigration from anywhere because eventually you can't take in more migrants because as I pointed out before, immigrants (all races) are more likely to end up on government assistance than people who are native born.  You'll run out of money at some point.  Wouldn't it be cheaper to just stop subsidizing abortions at planned parent in the hood?  Doesn't that hurt economic growth?

There are obviously other variables to consider but I don't see anything but arbitrary numbers and "this sounds good so i'll say it" talking points.    I don' think GDP growth is the only measurement we should take into consideration but it's certainly a big one. 

While the Swiss have desired to place quotas and restrictions on EU nationals, they havent done so since 1999, and if they do, they will lose access to the single market. Not only has Switzerland not told the EU to fuck itself, they've often told their own citizens to fuck themselves when they vote on referendums and amendments in order to capitulate to EU demands. They also restrict non-EU migrants, such as refugees from Syria in Germany, from working but dont stop them from entering because they're in the Schengen area. 

And yes, banking, when its the only thing you do, is a niche industry. Theyre the Caymans with ski slopes instead of beaches. 

As for US population growth, Ive already said that current immigration and growth rates are sufficient. Ive never said we should have a billion people tomorrow.  You can "say" something all you want about immigrants on welfare, but they don't typically even qualify for it. Someone who is born here is not an immigrant. 

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

Hmm. Didn't realize the "caravan" had demands too. They demand an end to political corruption in thier central American countries, LGBTQIA rights and open borders. 

So flooding America with thier people is supposed to fix thier home countries? 

Their demands to the US Gov.

“That they respect our rights as refugees and our right to dignified work to be able to support our families
That they open the borders to us because we are as much citizens as the people of the countries where we are and/or travel
That deportations, which destroy families, come to an end”

The border police stopped and boarded us, but we insisted that we are Pueblo Sin Fronteras, 1500 families without passports but with permission from God to pass freely; the police backed off and we made it to San Pedro, where we found the town fair and played foosball before falling asleep exhausted.

We are strong, we are impatient, we are beautiful and fun and we have dignity, and there are a lot of us.

Donald Trump really appreciates you loonie lefties taking it to the logical conclusion and making his point. 

[bad_teammate 13018]

love to post screenshots of unsourced and anonymous Facebook posts to own the libs

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

53 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

love to post screenshots of unsourced and anonymous Facebook posts to own the libs

It's from the human trafficking organization's facebook.

https://m.facebook.com/PuebloSF/posts/2103600996333257

[bolverk 28886]

They may have a point by stating they are refugees. The US signed the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees in 1967, which would be applicable which I think they're referring to. Obviously, I'm no attorney with specialized knowledge in bird refugee law though.

[InkaUtexas 24820]

If they are in Mexico and non Mexican citizens they are refugees. If they are Mexicans they are internally displaced persons (IDPs). That is how the UN has argued war refugees in the past. 

 

 

[Parliament 13979]

Did George Soros write that?

[bad_teammate 13018]

OK, cool, sounds good. I think American should be a shining beacon on a hill that offers refuge and opportunity to displaced people.

[Parliament 13979]

I guess President Trump tweeted about this today. He is nonplussed.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[udaydanceparty 33]

14 hours ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

Hmm. Didn't realize the "caravan" had demands too. They demand an end to political corruption in thier central American countries, LGBTQIA rights and open borders. 

So flooding America with thier people is supposed to fix thier home countries? 

 

 

Their*

Also..  There is no fucking way that this group is being sponsored by people who are actually pro-immigration/open borders.  I'm sure the people in the caravan actually believe this shit, but they appear to be political pawns.  They are hitting every single GOP talking point in order to motivate Republicans for midterm elections. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by udaydanceparty

[woohorn 1130]

They may have a point by stating they are refugees. The US signed the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees in 1967, which would be applicable which I think they're referring to. Obviously, I'm no attorney with specialized knowledge in bird refugee law though.

Oh, ok cool then. Their refugee camp on the boarder should be built to safely house them until the conditions they are fleeing improve.

I don't doubt they are refugees in the broad sense. The issue is that they are ECONOMIC refugees that want to terk daur jerbs.

[bolverk 28886]

10 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Oh, ok cool then. Their refugee camp on the boarder should be built to safely house them until the conditions they are fleeing improve.

I don't doubt they are refugees in the broad sense. The issue is that they are ECONOMIC refugees that want to terk daur jerbs.

That may well be true, but their little FB manifesto is hitting all the key criteria to try and attain refugee status: fear of violence, persecution, and whatnot. But, yeah, since they're Hondurans, I'd argue Mexico (a closer neighbor) should be at partially responsible for helping take care of them until the situation improves. That said, I have no problem with the US, Mexico, or anyone else living up to our international obligations for the humane treatment of refugees.

If the situation in Honduras is so awful, maybe we ought to help them sort that shit out. It seems more productive and constructive than throwing a bitch fit on twitter when you are literally the most powerful man in the world. DO SOMETHING!!!

Granted though, I don't know what's going on there specifically, and I am not advocating military intervention...unless they have oil. /s

[Chuckie Finster 22253]

I wonder if the Smokey's of the world realize how transparent their motives are to us actual Jews.

White/American people want to kill Jews = "both sides"

Brown/foreign people want to kill Jews = "OMG they must be stopped!"

You can't pick and choose when to care about antisemitism, and expect us to take you seriously.  

Edited April 3, 2018 by Chuckie Finster