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Posted
6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is a good piece of journalism, but I gotta push back on the Tayllor Lorenz.love. She is mentally ill, and this is an example of "the worst person you know made a great point" meme. 

Yeah, she was doing the "nazis were nice to me recently so actually they're better than libs" thing on BlueSky like five days ago.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is a good piece of journalism, but I gotta push back on the Tayllor Lorenz.love. She is mentally ill, and this is an example of "the worst person you know made a great point" meme. 

Well she is a vegan but I'm not sure what else you mean

(kidding)

She is weird but objectively does excellent journalism.

Posted
4 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Our leaders are really meeting the moment of Trump’s fascism. 
 

 

I saw her on TV the other day and there’s no juice or energy.  Just nothing exciting going on.

Posted
3 minutes ago, tx ind said:

I saw her on TV the other day and there’s no juice or energy.  Just nothing exciting going on.

Sadly... as much as I like Warren she's not the right politician for moments like this. 

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Posted
49 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Does nobody else see that this is building and manufacturing consent to completely do away with the representative democratic system "since #bothsides are doing it"?

No, I don't see a state-sponsored boycott as a consent for a military takeover.  If that is sufficient, they were going to do it anyway.  

Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, YChang said:

Sadly... as much as I like Warren she's not the right politician for moments like this. 

Correct. And as a Buttigieg fan, I'm realizing he's not right either. And then you have the Newsomes and Pritzkers of the world, who haven't face the presidential candidate oppo research and limelight yet, which I'm sure will unveil tons of "disqualifying" issues. 

No Dem politician can save us. The way things are going, I have zero desire to even pay attention to the Dem primary in 2028 (if we have one) or contribute a single dollar. They have my opposition vote locked up. That's all I'm willing to do at this moment. 

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is a good piece of journalism, but I gotta push back on the Tayllor Lorenz.love. She is mentally ill, and this is an example of "the worst person you know made a great point" meme. 

Interesting to see mapped out and how it works. It’s always safe to assume that political influencers who spend tons of time commenting but have no visible income source have an invisible one.  The ones doing it for a mainstream U.S. party with guardrails and directions are low down on my list of concerns.

Tim Poole and Benny Johnson showed how much stupid dark money is sloshing in the system and how easy it is for foreign actors to exploit that. There are plenty of influencers on the left who knowingly and unknowingly work for foreign adversaries .

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No Dem politician can save us. The way things are going, I have zero desire to even pay attention to the Dem primary in 2028 (if we have one) or contribute a single dollar. They have my opposition vote locked up. That's all I'm willing to do at this moment. 

Totally understand the sentiment I think like with a lot of politics... look to our local candidates for that fight and see where that goes. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No Dem politician can save us. The way things are going, I have zero desire to even pay attention to the Dem primary in 2028 (if we have one) or contribute a single dollar. They have my opposition vote locked up. That's all I'm willing to do at this moment. 

 

The difference between politicians and activists is that politicians work within the political systems and activists work outside the political system.  

The Dems lost in the political system in 2024.  We lost the Presidency, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and numerous state governments.  Part of that is because natural biases in the system towards small population states, and part of it is bias the Republicans have installed and are working to increase greatly.  The biggest part of it is that Americans are stupid and racist and sexist. I think we have a good chance of regaining ground in 2026, but my hopes wane when looking at the next Presidential election.  Still, there is a chance and I will put money on that chance, even if it is a long shot. But Politicians work within the political system and at least for the next 17 months, there is very little they can do there. 

Activism is the only viable path right now.  

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Posted

Where's the evidence for anything he's claiming besides "trust me bro"? 

This guy is not trustworthy and never has been. Also, he's fucking wrong. The Democrats cannot content create their way out of the mess they have created. 

Oh, and that extremely slimy way he tried to portray her as a friend of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens is absolutely hysterical and just reeks of desperation.

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Where's the evidence for anything he's claiming besides "trust me bro"? 

This guy is not trustworthy and never has been. Also, he's fucking wrong. The Democrats cannot content create their way out of the mess they have created. 

Oh, and that extremely slimy way he tried to portray her as a friend of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens is absolutely hysterical and just reeks of desperation.

 

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Posted

That doesn't, like, even come close to addressing my question. I am fully aware that Taylor is a weird person that has said some bizarre shit over the years.

Attack the piece on its merits with evidence and I'll pay attention. Otherwise we're just playing a game here that I'm not interested in.

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Posted
Just now, Brian Fantana said:

That doesn't, like, even come close to addressing my question. I am fully aware that Taylor is a weird person that has said some bizarre shit over the years.

Attack the piece on its merits with evidence and I'll pay attention. Otherwise we're just playing a game here that I'm not interested in.

She said that bizarre shit less than 2 weeks ago. 

I have no idea who to believe, and I'm guessing more info will come out. But do I trust Taylor Lorenz or her intentions? Absolutely not.  

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Posted

Posting this in here as well. I honestly can't believe Torres agreed to this interview, he's an even bigger charisma suck than Ron DeSantis somehow. This man is a robot.

This is what the modern Democrat is to me. Someone who cares nothing for their constituents, believes in nothing, has no principles, no regard for popular opinion, and wholly rejects any attempt to appeal to their humanity. Just programmed to do and say exactly what their moneyed interests tell them to and nothing else.

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Posted
12 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Where's the evidence for anything he's claiming besides "trust me bro"? 

This guy is not trustworthy and never has been. Also, he's fucking wrong. The Democrats cannot content create their way out of the mess they have created. 

Oh, and that extremely slimy way he tried to portray her as a friend of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens is absolutely hysterical and just reeks of desperation.

I disagree with your stance on content creating way out. It can be done but I don’t think the democratic leadership know how to effectively do it. 

Posted
20 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I disagree with your stance on content creating way out. It can be done but I don’t think the democratic leadership know how to effectively do it. 

Content creation literally doesn't matter at all when the Democratic politicians themselves are not interested in messaging in a way that is even close to adequate. As per usual, you are only interested in aesthetics.

Posted
14 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Content creation literally doesn't matter at all when the Democratic politicians themselves are not interested in messaging in a way that is even close to adequate. As per usual, you are only interested in aesthetics.

The “aesthetics” has been how republicans have made it in roads with working class. Long cat news articles and boring policy talk isn’t how you operate in this era of politics. 

Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The “aesthetics” has been how republicans have made it in roads with working class. Long cat news articles and boring policy talk isn’t how you operate in this era of politics. 

The GOP messages in a way that, while shitty and fucked up, resonates with its base for the most part. They give them the red meat, the shit they want to hear, the dogshit policy positions they [think that they] want. Their pool of influencers amplifies that.

The Democrats message in a vapid, banal way that their base dislikes for the most part, a way that ignores or outright sneers at most of the policy positions their base wants, and makes most people think they are lizard people in costumes. Paying a bunch of influencers to amplify that does absolutely nothing but lose you more potential voters.

"Hey, you see the Republicans? Don't they suck? Vote for us! We're going to continue pouring trillions into the military industrial complex so you can never have health care or education, but at least we're not them" doesn't fucking work anymore.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

The GOP messages in a way that, while shitty and fucked up, resonates with its base for the most part. They give them the red meat, the shit they want to hear, the dogshit policy positions they [think that they] want. Their pool of influencers amplifies that.

The Democrats message in a vapid, banal way that their base dislikes for the most part, a way that ignores or outright sneers at most of the policy positions their base wants, and makes most people think they are lizard people in costumes. Paying a bunch of influencers to amplify that does absolutely nothing but lose you more potential voters.

"Hey, you see the Republicans? Don't they suck? Vote for us! We're going to continue pouring trillions into the military industrial complex so you can never have health care or education, but at least we're not them" doesn't fucking work anymore.

Your messaging there fucking sucks and that’s why democrats struggle with it. Again, you’re acting like the average person cares about intricacies of policy. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
13 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The response to Taylor's article 

 

Hit dog will holler.

He doesn't ever deny this part:

Quote

creators in the program must funnel all bookings with lawmakers and political leaders through Chorus. Creators also have to loop Chorus in on any independently organized engagements with government officials or political leaders.

or this part:

Quote

Creators in the program are not allowed to use any funds or resources that they receive as part of the program to make content that supports or opposes any political candidate or campaign without express authorization from Chorus in advance and in writing, per the contract.

The only way BTC's statement could be true, then, would be in a highly technical sense. "You're free to say that you oppose Chuck Schumer, and you don't need our advanced written authorization to say it, but you can't use the only equipment you know how to use, that $10,000 setup we paid for, if you're going to oppose Chuck Schumer."

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Your messaging there fucking sucks and that’s why democrats struggle with it. Again, you’re acting like the average person cares about intricacies of policy. 

see GIF

Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

And you continue to insult, that surely will help bring voters back to your base! 

I'm not a politician, snowflake. Your assertion that the pool of potential Democratic voters doesn't care about policy positions remains a completely fucking idiotic take. You can repeat it until you're blue in the face, but that won't make it any less stupid. 

Posted
Just now, Brian Fantana said:

I'm not a politician, snowflake. Your assertion that the pool of potential Democratic voters doesn't care about policy positions remains a completely fucking idiotic take. You can repeat it until you're blue in the face, but that won't make it any less stupid. 

Did I say democratic voters? No, I said the average person, the working class, etc. But continue to fucking alienate those bases and shit talk them. Surely that will help the democratic party.

Posted

Working class voters want candidates like Mamdani and Platner. Guys who aren't focus grouped or message tested into Bolivia. Talk about affordability without being a pushover on civil rights. That's literally all it takes to beat the spread by double digits.

Posted
2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Did I say democratic voters? No, I said the average person, the working class, etc. But continue to fucking alienate those bases and shit talk them. Surely that will help the democratic party.

What the FUCK are you talking about? I'm talking about how badly the Democratic politicians message. 

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?????????

Will Ferrell Crazy Pills GIF

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Did I say democratic voters? No, I said the average person, the working class, etc. But continue to fucking alienate those bases and shit talk them. Surely that will help the democratic party.

I understand the sentiment of some of what you’re saying and some of what Brian is saying. But currently… in terms of national and local Dems, who would you say are insulting the average person? I don’t see it with Newsom or Pritzker in their messaging, but to be fair, it’s not campaign-style messaging. I certainly don’t really hear it from state Dems either. I’ll fully own to being more biased/having blinders on. 

 

BUT…. I think Dems have an uphill battle period. It’s hard to overcome years of bad messaging on their end and effective negative messaging from Republicans. 

Edited by YChang
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Posted
1 minute ago, YChang said:

I understand the sentiment of some of what you’re saying and some of what Brian is saying. But currently… in terms of national and local Dems, who would you say are insulting the average person? I don’t see it with Newsom or Pritzker in their messaging, but to be fair, it’s not campaign-style messaging. I certainly don’t really hear it from state Dems either. I’ll fully own to being more biased/having blinders on. 

 

BUT…. I think Dems have an uphill battle period. It’s hard to overcome years of bad messaging on their end and effective negative messaging from Republicans. 

They need to stop using fancy words.

Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

They need to stop using fancy words.

You would think the high-priced consultants would at least get that through to them. 😅

Posted

I really have no dog in this fight regarding Taylor Lorenz's reporting about Chorus. 

But I'm seeing the Klippensteins and Greenwalds of the world taking aim at David Pakman and calling him a DNC shill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chorus program has been in effect for a couple of months? David Pakman started hosting a local radio show 20 years ago. He's been on YouTube since 2011. 

It feels like the anger here is based on Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen avoiding discussions of Israel/Palestine. Which I can understand frustrates people. But until more info comes out, I don't see the nefarious DNC conspiracy being amplified by the online left. 

 

 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

What the FUCK are you talking about? I'm talking about how badly the Democratic politicians message. 

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?????????

Will Ferrell Crazy Pills GIF

BO&W loses track of himself and likes to move goalposts without even realizing he's doing it.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I really have no dog in this fight regarding Taylor Lorenz's reporting about Chorus. 

But I'm seeing the Klippensteins and Greenwalds of the world taking aim at David Pakman and calling him a DNC shill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chorus program has been in effect for a couple of months? David Pakman started hosting a local radio show 20 years ago. He's been on YouTube since 2011. 

It feels like the anger here is based on Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen avoiding discussions of Israel/Palestine. Which I can understand frustrates people. But until more info comes out, I don't see the nefarious DNC conspiracy being amplified by the online left. 

It's more than that, but Pakman has said some nasty shit about the subject before, like "Israel would never waste ordinance on a Palestinian" etc, and he's one of the people that thinks someone like Ritchie Torres is the future of the party and should "lead the progressive movement".

It's not a conspiracy, persay, it's just a shitty, opaque practice that they're only making a half-assed effort at making transparent after they were called out.

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Posted

Is it a bad thing that people are organizing and trying to improve Dem presence online? Maybe it doesn't move the needle, but don't we want people to at least try to counter the far right's online influence?

It feels like the far left thinks the only way things should happen is organically. I get it, but let's be real. Here we are a decade after Trump, and it's still the same handful of people (Majority Report, Hasan Piker, Kulinski) that dominate the online leftist media landscape. And most of their content that gets high engagement is just criticizing far-right YouTubers. 

I'm a fan of Sam Seder. Really intelligent guy and I agree with almost everything he stands for. But what do we have to show for with his show the Majority Report? it feels like they're pissing in the wind most of the time. 

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Is it a bad thing that people are organizing and trying to improve Dem presence online?

Doing it in the shadows? Controlling who they get to criticize? Yeah, that's bad.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Is it a bad thing that people are organizing and trying to improve Dem presence online? Maybe it doesn't move the needle, but don't we want people to at least try to counter the far right's online influence?

It feels like the far left thinks the only way things should happen is organically. I get it, but let's be real. Here we are a decade after Trump, and it's still the same handful of people (Majority Report, Hasan Piker, Kulinski) that dominate the online leftist media landscape. And most of their content that gets high engagement is just criticizing far-right YouTubers. 

I'm a fan of Sam Seder. Really intelligent guy and I agree with almost everything he stands for. But what do we have to show for with his show the Majority Report? it feels like they're pissing in the wind most of the time. 

 

Go back to what I was trying to say before BO&W tried to derail the thread. It's not a bad thing, but it's ineffective because the Democratic politicians/candidates are not interested in messaging that actually resonates with voters. It's great if online left/Dem influencers are saying good things to their audiences, but if the actual policy makers are not adopting those messages, it doesn't mean shit.

I love Sam Seder, but the Majority Report can't change the world by itself, especially because Democratic policy makers generally would consider him an opponent, not someone to collaborate with, and that's pretty much the entire problem. Why do you think no Democratic policy maker will go on the Majority Report? They know that Sam Seder does not pull punches and will ask every tough question they don't want to have to answer in front of their potential voters.

To use yesterday's example, Ritchie Torres agreeing to go on Adam Friedland's show is surprising, but Adam isn't a political animal. He did an admirable job of trying to bring out some humanity in Torres, but he has limitations in this sphere, and Torres isn't exactly prominent. Any mainstream Democrat agreeing to be grilled by Sam Seder is an entirely different conversation and would be absolutely earth-shattering. There's a reason they would never agree to it, and we have to get past that hurdle before anything else.

I don't see it ever happening with people like Schumer and Jeffries in charge.

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Posted

There are millions of members of the Democratic party who are far more concerned with fellow party members' public statements on a foreign conflict than the fact that we have a dictator speed-running the collapse of our democracy.

I'm not going to say they are wrong for having these concerns, but I will say it's part of the reason nobody should be surprised at the ease in which Republicans took control of this country.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

There are millions of members of the Democratic party who are far more concerned with fellow party members' public statements on a foreign conflict than the fact that we have a dictator speed-running the collapse of our democracy.

I'm not going to say they are wrong for having these concerns, but I will say it's part of the reason nobody should be surprised at the ease in which Republicans took control of this country.

Ok, I guess we have to do this dance again. Calling it a "foreign conflict", while technically accurate, is a cop out because it is being done with our weapons and tax dollars. And it's not just public statements, it is also their actions, i.e. their votes and who they are accepting money from to influence those votes. It is an important issue for a reason. Continually handwaving it away as if it's not an important reason the Democrats have been losing votes, and trying to continually insinuate that giving a shit about Israel/Palestine is why we have Trump right now is completely asinine and you should fucking know better. 

You do realize that these two things go hand in hand, right? That the Democrats sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to listen to their constituents over issues like this is actually a major part of the reason we have Trump? There is a mountain of empirical data to back this notion up. I hate that I have to keep repeating this because people just will not listen. Every time I ask for supporting data in the opposite direction I am met with crickets.

As much as I appreciate Joe Biden for trouncing Trump in 2020, a lot of the work was done for him by Trump's deep unpopularity and the way he completely fucked up the handling of the pandemic prior to the election. The fact of the matter is that Biden was similarly unpopular in 2024 and attempting to carry that forward was crazy stupid by the Democrats and that's the reason we have Trump today.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Doing it in the shadows? Controlling who they get to criticize? Yeah, that's bad.

In the shadows? They have a website: https://www.wearechorus.com/

I think we need more receipts than Taylor Lorenz's interpretation of contract language to determine if Chorus is actually controlling criticism. 

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Ok, I guess we have to do this dance again. Calling it a "foreign conflict", while technically accurate, is a cop out because it is being done with our weapons and tax dollars. And it's not just public statements, it is also their actions, i.e. their votes and who they are accepting money from to influence those votes. It is an important issue for a reason. Continually handwaving it away as if it's not an important reason the Democrats have been losing votes, and trying to continually insinuate that giving a shit about Israel/Palestine is why we have Trump right now is completely asinine and you should fucking know better. 

You do realize that these two things go hand in hand, right? That the Democrats sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to listen to their constituents over issues like this is actually a major part of the reason we have Trump? There is a mountain of empirical data to back this notion up. I hate that I have to keep repeating this because people just will not listen. Every time I ask for supporting data in the opposite direction I am met with crickets.

As much as I appreciate Joe Biden for trouncing Trump in 2020, a lot of the work was done for him by Trump's deep unpopularity and the way he completely fucked up the handling of the pandemic prior to the election. The fact of the matter is that Biden was similarly unpopular in 2024 and attempting to carry that forward was crazy stupid by the Democrats and that's the reason we have Trump today.

It's not just Israel/Palestine.  Most Democratic voters have their own "pet" issue that is deeply important to them, to the point that it could cost a vote.

I'm not saying it's wrong.  Morally, I'm not saying anyone should care less about these issues.  I'm just saying that nobody should be surprised when we lose when 99% of the opposition's "pet" issue is: beat the fucking Democrats.

Posted
Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

It's not just Israel/Palestine.  Most Democratic voters have their own "pet" issue that is deeply important to them, to the point that it could cost a vote.

I'm not saying it's wrong.  Morally, I'm not saying anyone should care less about these issues.  I'm just saying that nobody should be surprised when we lose when 99% of the opposition's "pet" issue is: beat the fucking Democrats.

Yeah, I just think that this is the wrong way to look at it. It's not the voters job to conform their position to what the Democrat policy makers want, and while I get the sentiment and reasoning behind "vote blue no matter who", it is supposed to be the Democrats job to give their voters a reason to vote for them. They aren't entitled to anything, they need to earn it and they don't seem interested in doing so.

Their idea of how to deal with their voter base is to just give up and lose when their voters don't align with them, and then point to the other side and say "SEE?!" rather than actually pretend to give a shit about their voters needs.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

more receipts

Come on, now. You haven't noticed how David AIPACman and Olivia Julianna always seem to be carrying water for the DNC? 

Posted
4 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Come on, now. You haven't noticed how David AIPACman and Olivia Julianna always seem to be carrying water for the DNC? 

I don't know who Olivia Julianna is. I've occasionally watched David Pakman over the years, seems like a pretty level headed guy and I never considered him to be a DNC shill. He also has done a good job debating the far-right wackos. 

 

 



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