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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Just for the record you are saying NFL drafted guys are the same as this year's group. ASk 99% that watched the last 2 seasons which OL they think is better and they will say 2024. You are the other 1%

Huh? I didn't say this year is better. I said last year wasn't great. I'm not afraid to give my opinion. A great O-line is one that holds up in against top flight competition in some aspect of the game. When we were playing against the Ohio State's and Georgia's of the world we couldn't run or pass pro. Let's all remember that Arch stepped in vs Georgia and got his head taken off too behind that line last year, despite him being markedly better than Ewers at evading the rush. Man for man we looked the part size wise. Our line of scrimmage play is exactly why we keep losing those games. We were inferior in the trenches vs Georgia and Ohio State, and that's what wins football games. When Michigan won they were superior in the trenches too. Only on this board do we not understand that and have people blaming the quarterback when it has shit to do with that. 

We also lost to Washington because we didn't have a pass rush and couldn't get to Penix. The next week Michigan was all over his ass and he put up 13 points. We lost the LOS play in that one too.

Edited by Thatguy
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Posted
2 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Yes, you have established over and over again that our OL last season wasn't perfect (nobody argued that it was). You can stop posting about it now.

Shut the fuck up talking to me. I responded to a question I was asked. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Yes, you have established over and over again that our OL last season wasn't perfect (nobody argued that it was). You can stop posting about it now.

I think its one point worth belaboring. Last year's OL was ok. They got exposed by top flight DLs and we were terrible in the red zone. Our run game simply hasn't been good enough under Sark. Many on here seem to want to argue that it isnt as big of a problem as people like Thatguy are saying, but the stats say different, the eye test in big games says different, and that unit completely melted down this season in the most frustrating way possible given all the resources that have gone into the program under Sark. Behind the timely arrival of Arch Manning as the star QB we need him to be, the OL grenade that went off is the story of this season. Never should've happened and I think coaching is the issue. 

Posted
13 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

And the expectations for Arch and this team were completely unreasonable, and that was certainly not Arch’s fault. Anytime you have a new, inexperienced starter at QB, there will be a blip. Add people crowning him because he’s a Manning… it was too much. But he’s grown into it finally.
 

He’s not perfect, but man he is light years better than he was in Columbus. Glad he’s our guy. 

I don’t think the expectations for this team were unreasonable at all. Look at Ohio state. First year starting qb, lost a ton of players, and kicking everyone’s ass. Not unreasonable at all to think the longhorns could have done similar. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, BlackCat said:

I think its one point worth belaboring. Last year's OL was ok. They got exposed by top flight DLs and we were terrible in the red zone. Our run game simply hasn't been good enough under Sark. Many on here seem to want to argue that it isnt as big of a problem as people like Thatguy are saying, but the stats say different, the eye test in big games says different, and that unit completely melted down this season in the most frustrating way possible given all the resources that have gone into the program under Sark. Behind the timely arrival of Arch Manning as the star QB we need him to be, the OL grenade that went off is the story of this season. Never should've happened and I think coaching is the issue. 

Holy shit, no one is arguing that the OL isn't that big of a problem. Thatguy keeps trying to use last year's OL deficiencies to prop up our last QB in the Arch thread for some reason.

Posted
Texas was not extremely weak at Center and RG. Hell, the RG got drafted. He was one of the best pass blocking guards I have ever seen at Texas. 

Left guard people. Campbell played on the right last year too, didn’t he?
Posted
2 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Holy shit, no one is arguing that the OL isn't that big of a problem. Thatguy keeps trying to use last year's OL deficiencies to prop up our last QB in the Arch thread for some reason.

No. I am saying no one was winning those games until we got better trench play. We've been inferior in the trenches this whole time. People like Derka are saying that Arch would change that. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Holy shit, no one is arguing that the OL isn't that big of a problem. Thatguy keeps trying to use last year's OL deficiencies to prop up our last QB in the Arch thread for some reason.

Dont know about all that, but I think its a good idea to highlight the OL has underperformed consistently under Sark. Not just this year. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I don’t think the expectations for this team were unreasonable at all. Look at Ohio state. First year starting qb, lost a ton of players, and kicking everyone’s ass. Not unreasonable at all to think the longhorns could have done similar. 

I mean with everything resting on Arch's head. He didn’t ask for all that hype. In fact, he’s done nothing but credit his team and teammates for everything. The media acted like he’d throw for 500 yards out of the gate. He wasn’t quite ready at the beginning of the season. He’s improved a lot. 

There was a ton more pressure on Arch than on Julian Sayin. 

Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

No. I am saying no one was winning those games until we got better trench play. We've been inferior in the trenches this whole time. People like Derka are saying that Arch would change that. 

Arch the way he's playing now would have 100% changed the way those defenses game planned against us. One reason we struggled running the ball in those games is because none of those defenses were worried about Quinn beating them with the deep ball or his legs which enabled them to devote extra resources to stopping the run.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I mean with everything resting on Arch's head. He didn’t ask for all that hype. In fact, he’s done nothing but credit his team and teammates for everything. The media acted like he’d throw for 500 yards out of the gate. He wasn’t quite ready at the beginning of the season. He’s improved a lot. 

There was a ton more pressure on Arch than on Julian Sayin. 

OSU is the easiest place to play QB in the country. They generally roll out 3 1st round WRs every year. Trying to compare an OSU QB to anywhere else is tough. What does Sayin look like behind a poor OL, no run game, and 0 1st round WRs? I do not know, but I know he would not look as good. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, elguapo said:

Arch the way he's playing now would have 100% changed the way those defenses game planned against us. One reason we struggled running the ball in those games is because none of those defenses were worried about Quinn beating them with the deep ball or his legs which enabled them to devote extra resources to stopping the run.

We struggled running the ball because our lines were beat at the point of attack.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

No. I am saying no one was winning those games until we got better trench play. We've been inferior in the trenches this whole time. People like Derka are saying that Arch would change that. 

Arch certainly changed the way defenses played Texas. The coaches did not realize how poor this OL was, impossible for fans to have guessed it would be this bad. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Arch the way he's playing now would have 100% changed the way those defenses game planned against us. One reason we struggled running the ball in those games is because none of those defenses were worried about Quinn beating them with the deep ball or his legs which enabled them to devote extra resources to stopping the run.

You are just saying shit that is flat wrong at this point. Most defenses were terrified of our passing attack last year and played us with light boxes not loaded ones. You can literally see on film us in 12 personnel with opposing defenses with 2 to 3 safeties 12 yards off the ball. Only a few teams were brave enough to walk an extra man down. Georgia was one of them, and even they sprinkled it in. ASU got aggressive and they paid for it. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

OSU is the easiest place to play QB in the country. They generally roll out 3 1st round WRs every year. Trying to compare an OSU QB to anywhere else is tough. What does Sayin look like behind a poor OL, no run game, and 0 1st round WRs? I do not know, but I know he would not look as good. 

I think the point is, this is exactly the kind of thing people should be saying about playing in a Steve Sarkisian offense. Our groceries should be very comparable to Ohio State and Georgia's. Sark's offenses just aren't good enough, and the OL and Sark's commitment to the running game is a glaring reason why. 

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Posted
50 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

You are just saying shit that is flat wrong at this point. Most defenses were terrified of our passing attack last year and played us with light boxes not loaded ones. You can literally see on film us in 12 personnel with opposing defenses with 2 to 3 safeties 12 yards off the ball. Only a few teams were brave enough to walk an extra man down. Georgia was one of them, and even they sprinkled it in. ASU got aggressive and they paid for it. 

Do you think Arch being a running threat hurts or helps our running game vs Quinn who was not a running threat at all? 

Do you think Quinn was accurate throwing the deep ball? If a defense isn't scared of being beat with the deep ball, how does that impact how they gameplan against an offense?

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Posted
3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Do you think Arch being a running threat hurts or helps our running game vs Quinn who was not a running threat at all? 

Do you think Quinn was accurate throwing the deep ball? If a defense isn't scared of being beat with the deep ball, how does that impact how they gameplan against an offense?

Look dude, what I think doesn't matter. The fact is that almost all teams played the pass first and you can tell that through film and alignment. Obviously Arch is superior at throwing the deep ball, but Quinn was superior at throwing everything else. You don't have to throw the deep ball well for teams to be scared of your passing game. If you are good hitting the crossing routes and such on the move teams will still keep their safeties deep for fear a well thrown crosser will get housed. You have to have layers to your defense. Georgia got a little to aggressive in the SEC championship and walked a safety down. Quinn pulled the RPO and threw a perfect ball that Dmo didn't have to break stride for and Dmo housed it. 

 

 

 

Currently, everytime Arch plays good man teams he struggles because throwing with good timing and anticipation is his shortcoming. For examples, the ball that got batted away from Parker vs aggy was an out route that was thrown so late that Parker had to stop on the sideline to prevent from going OB. That allowed for the DB to recover and break it up. Throw it on the break that doesn't happen. Same with the interception vs Ohio State. Wingo runs an out route and instead of the ball being there on the break, Arch throws it when he is open. That allows the DB to undercut the route and pick it off. And that's okay because Arch Manning is still growing and isn't a finished product. He will get better at trusting what he is seeing and not waiting to see it, and when that happens he will be the best QB in the country.

Look, both guys have their pluses and minuses, but that's not why they are losing games. They are losing games because everytime we get in a dog fight with a blue blood we lose the trench play contest. I don't care whether it is this year or last year they look exactly the same vs quality fronts. Shitty.  

Ohio State last year- 21 to 14 down the stretch. Quarterback play is roughly a wash. Difference in the game is they popped a big run for a TD just before halftime and we couldn't run the ball. We couldn't get a hand on their QB hardly all game and then with the game on the line our RT completely whiffs on his pass pro. Game over. 

This year vs Georgia they bottle up our run game without doing shit special and spy Arch, who runs 5 times for zero yards. Meanwhile Gunnar Stockton is back there behind his line doing whatever the fuck he wants. They run for 128 yards. Stockton is back there all day patting the football to the tune of 4 TD passes and 1 running. Stockton ain't better than Arch but his line is. 

 

The common theme is shitty line play in big games. So can we stop shitting on the QBs because they ain't the problem. Last year's Georgia team would've done the same thing they did to him this year. Until we improve our line play we will keep coming up short in these games. Even VY had a great O-line. The O-line was ultimately the reason Colt lost in 09 too. Texas has to start getting better linemen. We haven't had a truly good line since 2006. It's embarrassing at this point. Throw the whole safe at a line. 

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Posted
30 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Look dude, what I think doesn't matter. The fact is that almost all teams played the pass first and you can tell that through film and alignment. Obviously Arch is superior at throwing the deep ball, but Quinn was superior at throwing everything else. You don't have to throw the deep ball well for teams to be scared of your passing game. If you are good hitting the crossing routes and such on the move teams will still keep their safeties deep for fear a well thrown crosser will get housed. You have to have layers to your defense. Georgia got a little to aggressive in the SEC championship and walked a safety down. Quinn pulled the RPO and threw a perfect ball that Dmo didn't have to break stride for and Dmo housed it. 

 

 

 

Currently, everytime Arch plays good man teams he struggles because throwing with good timing and anticipation is his shortcoming. For examples, the ball that got batted away from Parker vs aggy was an out route that was thrown so late that Parker had to stop on the sideline to prevent from going OB. That allowed for the DB to recover and break it up. Throw it on the break that doesn't happen. Same with the interception vs Ohio State. Wingo runs an out route and instead of the ball being there on the break, Arch throws it when he is open. That allows the DB to undercut the route and pick it off. And that's okay because Arch Manning is still growing and isn't a finished product. He will get better at trusting what he is seeing and not waiting to see it, and when that happens he will be the best QB in the country.

Look, both guys have their pluses and minuses, but that's not why they are losing games. They are losing games because everytime we get in a dog fight with a blue blood we lose the trench play contest. I don't care whether it is this year or last year they look exactly the same vs quality fronts. Shitty.  

Ohio State last year- 21 to 14 down the stretch. Quarterback play is roughly a wash. Difference in the game is they popped a big run for a TD just before halftime and we couldn't run the ball. We couldn't get a hand on their QB hardly all game and then with the game on the line our RT completely whiffs on his pass pro. Game over. 

This year vs Georgia they bottle up our run game without doing shit special and spy Arch, who runs 5 times for zero yards. Meanwhile Gunnar Stockton is back there behind his line doing whatever the fuck he wants. They run for 128 yards. Stockton is back there all day patting the football to the tune of 4 TD passes and 1 running. Stockton ain't better than Arch but his line is. 

 

The common theme is shitty line play in big games. So can we stop shitting on the QBs because they ain't the problem. Last year's Georgia team would've done the same thing they did to him this year. Until we improve our line play we will keep coming up short in these games. Even VY had a great O-line. The O-line was ultimately the reason Colt lost in 09 too. Texas has to start getting better linemen. We haven't had a truly good line since 2006. It's embarrassing at this point. Throw the whole safe at a line. 

Our OL last year wasn't perfect, but they were good enough to win a championship if Sark get's his head out of his ass near the GL. I also think our running scheme is way too vanilla against teams like Georgia who are geared up to blow up our OZ. In the first Georgia game last season Quinn was a big part of the problem in the first half and he got benched because of it - he self sacked multiple times.

Agree that we need to upgrade the interior OL significantly.  OL this year was a big downgrade from last season especially when we were trotting out Stroh as a starter.

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