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Sterlin Gilbert


Katfid54

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But would Gilbert start the game with a slow loping toss to a poorly executed WR screen which relies on the ability of CJ to effectively block his man (even though he's consistenly shown no desire for physicality)?

I knew we were in for a long day when that was our first play, as it showed we didn't make one single adjustment from the previous game.

 

Edited by Txzen
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16 minutes ago, Txzen said:

But would Gilbert start the game with a slow loping toss to a poorly executed WR screen which relies on the ability of CJ to effectively block his man (even though he's consistenly shown no desire for physicality)?

I knew we were in for a long day when that was our first play, as it showed we didn't make one single adjustment from the previous game.

 

Ya know, CJ isn't physical.  I think that's apparent given how he handles his blocking and how rarely he out muscles opponents for a contested ball.  Having said that, I don't think our WR screen package gives our players much of an angle advantage to help them out.  It seems like a lot of hit the man in front of you and make it work.  At one point  late in the Tulsa game we ran a WR screen to the near sideline and the slot blocked the DB over the WR catching the ball.  Easy 6 yards.  The slot defender couldn't get there in time to do anything, and the DB being blocked was at a disadvantage.  Simple, easy things we should be doing all the time instead of this manly football design that keeps failing.

 

Sidenote, the staff seems to be in love with the formation of the play you mentioned.  They love this trips look with both the TE and the RB to the same side at the WR's.  I'm no rocket surgeon, but it would seem like you want to throw the screen to a side of the field that isn't loaded with defenders instead of guaranteeing that there are a lot of defenders over to that side.  The TE may have swapped strength on the exact screen play you mentioned, but the point stands.  We like to put all our eggs on one side of the field which seems antithetical to moving the ball unless you want try some stuff to the weak side, which I've seen us do once.

Edited by Bobby_Batronic
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So you want to bring back the OC that lost to Kansas?   I'm not sure what to say to that.  

As opposed to the shit show trotted out Saturday? You’re damn right. The players would be in the 3rd season of a system they were recruited for and used to running. Hell, it would actually be a system.

Beck struggled to put up 28 pts on Tulsa for fucks sake.
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As opposed to the shit show trotted out Saturday? You’re damn right. The players would be in the 3rd season of a system they were recruited for and used to running. Hell, it would actually be a system.

 

Beck struggled to put up 28 pts on Tulsa for fucks sake.

 

Shane Buechele as a true freshman threw 21 TDs and almost 3,000 yards. Best true freshman QB performance in school history. He was clearly hampered by injuries much of the year. We had a Doak Walker winner who was a backup the year before.

 

Gilbert’s system exceeded my expectations in the first year. He knew what he was doing, had a philosophy but was limited by young players, low IQ players, injuries, and a mostly talentless offensive line.

 

Since I’ve been watching UT football beginning w Mackovic, I’d rank him top 2 OCs

 

1) Harsin

2) Gilbert

3) Mackovic

4) Major

5) Davis

6) Beck/Watson

 

Admittedly Mackovic and Davis have a larger sample size and showcased some awesome offenses. But, they both suffered major flaws. Davis, especially, was exposed when he didn’t enjoy overwhelming talent advantages. Advantages we have not seen since 2008. Advantages he didnt have before he got fired by Iowa. Advantages he owed Mack Brown and Tim Brewster.

 

Mackovic’s offenses outsmarted themselves and made too many mistakes (the number of turnovers, penalties and negative plays were staggering). But he was an architect of pretty damn good offenses.

 

Harsin and Gilbert made chicken salad out of chicken shit. I’m confident both would rock shit if they had Vince Young, Colt or Priest, Ricky or Shon Mitchell with guys like Dan Neil blocking for them. Harsin knows attacking football. Gilbert knows that system.

 

Keep in mind, they’re king of the ants on offense since the Wishbone was adopted here. We owe most of our amazing offensive success to great recruiting, outathleting teams and once in a generation players.

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On 9/9/2018 at 7:26 PM, ousux said:

Hindsight is..10/15?

 

Our offense sucked under Gilbert, it just looked better compared to the year before, nothing more, nothing less. Remember Kansas? Yeah, that was the Giblet/rapelor offense against that stout jayhawk D.

 

 

We turned over the ball 6 times against Kansas in that loss. 6 fucking times. 

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On 9/9/2018 at 7:39 PM, VaHorn said:

I am a fan of Gilbert. I hope he does well.  If anyone tells you he would be an answer to our problems, well, they are just funning you. Ignore them. 

Bringing him in at this point or next year would not fix anything, but having kept him and built on some positive momentum? That would have been a vast improvement over the last year + 2 games.

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17 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

Shane Buechele as a true freshman threw 21 TDs and almost 3,000 yards. Best true freshman QB performance in school history. He was clearly hampered by injuries much of the year. We had a Doak Walker winner who was a backup the year before.

 

Gilbert’s system exceeded my expectations in the first year. He knew what he was doing, had a philosophy but was limited by young players, low IQ players, injuries, and a mostly talentless offensive line.

 

Since I’ve been watching UT football beginning w Mackovic, I’d rank him top 2 OCs

 

1) Harsin

2) Gilbert

3) Mackovic

4) Major

5) Davis

6) Beck/Watson

 

Admittedly Mackovic and Davis have a larger sample size and showcased some awesome offenses. But, they both suffered major flaws. Davis, especially, was exposed when he didn’t enjoy overwhelming talent advantages. Advantages we have not seen since 2008. Advantages he didnt have before he got fired by Iowa. Advantages he owed Mack Brown and Tim Brewster.

 

Mackovic’s offenses outsmarted themselves and made too many mistakes (the number of turnovers, penalties and negative plays were staggering). But he was an architect of pretty damn good offenses.

 

Harsin and Gilbert made chicken salad out of chicken shit. I’m confident both would rock shit if they had Vince Young, Colt or Priest, Ricky or Shon Mitchell with guys like Dan Neil blocking for them. Harsin knows attacking football. Gilbert knows that system.

 

Keep in mind, they’re king of the ants on offense since the Wishbone was adopted here. We owe most of our amazing offensive success to great recruiting, outathleting teams and once in a generation players.

 

Can't really argue with this logic, I'm convinced. 

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9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Would it be such an insane idea to have Sterlin as HC and one of his proteges as OC? (Ready for the neg bombs.)

Yes. 

The problem so far is we're taking leaps of faith in largely unknown quantities who haven't panned out under the pressure of this job. 

Sterlin fucking Gilbert, much as I liked him and his offense, is not the cure for our ills. 

Hell, Kingsbury at least has been a p5 hc and also is a great oc.  (He's also not the answer)

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1 hour ago, Tex Long said:

I woulda been happy if MensaTom had kept Gilbert/Mattox, but...

Briles and Leach have in common in their playcalling that they kept calling the same option play over and over until the oppo stopped it - and then ran the wrinkle/constraint of the same play.

 

Because when you think about it, simpler is always better. Occam's razor, etc. 

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Tom's downfall will be his assistant coach choices. It was part of Mack and Charlie's downfall. It's 20/20 but I think we would've have been vastly better if he would've retained Gilbert and Mattox.

Sure hindsight can be unfair, but lots and lots of fans were and are pissed about the Watson and Beck hires because their failures were easily foreseeable. Complaints began as soon as they were mentioned as candidates. Turns out fans aren't as dumb as coaches want to believe.

 

Watson - widely panned as a hire, sucked beyond belief

Beck - panned as a hire but not as widely as Watson, has sucked but not as badly as Watson

Gilbert - Who the hell is this guy by most, wait and see approach, decent performance considering personnel

Harsin - hire celebrated by fans, did a better job than anyone else on this list while here

 

Edited to add that I know you know this but it needs to be said.

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9 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Amazing how we forgot about our anger towards Giblet and his 5 plays.

Don’t forget to never use the middle of the field. No matter how much it’s available, NEVER make them pay for not defending the middle of the field, simply because it’s not part of the V&S 

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53 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 


Year 2 would have seen more delayed releases to tight ends.

 

The pass to the TE was always the silver bullet in the V/S, and the rarity with which it was used made it nearly always effective. I added up all passes to TE’s and FB’s during Briles time in Waco ( I included FB’s as they were undoubtedly used until Art could recruit blocking TE “fricks” for his system) and over the course of his tenure the TE averaged slightly more than one reception per game. 

I do like the inclusion of the toss sweep that Gilbert used and Tulsa pulled out against us once or twice. A nice counter for spread out defenses trying to gamble and stuff the middle. It was never run by Briles at BU. 

There was also a nice route combo Gilbert used for long yardage conversion that I never saw Arr used. On the trips side one player ran off the deep coverage (usually middle slot), the inner slot ran a hook and the outside WR ran an in behind the hook. When he cleared the hook he was open virtually every time. 

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18 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

There was also a nice route combo Gilbert used for long yardage conversion that I never saw Arr used. On the trips side one player ran off the deep coverage (usually middle slot), the inner slot ran a hook and the outside WR ran an in behind the hook. When he cleared the hook he was open virtually every time. 

Was the hook run as a sort of pick/rub? 

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23 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

Shane Buechele as a true freshman threw 21 TDs and almost 3,000 yards. Best true freshman QB performance in school history. He was clearly hampered by injuries much of the year. We had a Doak Walker winner who was a backup the year before.

 

Gilbert’s system exceeded my expectations in the first year. He knew what he was doing, had a philosophy but was limited by young players, low IQ players, injuries, and a mostly talentless offensive line.

 

Since I’ve been watching UT football beginning w Mackovic, I’d rank him top 2 OCs

 

1) Harsin

2) Gilbert

3) Mackovic

4) Major

5) Davis

6) Beck/Watson

 

Admittedly Mackovic and Davis have a larger sample size and showcased some awesome offenses. But, they both suffered major flaws. Davis, especially, was exposed when he didn’t enjoy overwhelming talent advantages. Advantages we have not seen since 2008. Advantages he didnt have before he got fired by Iowa. Advantages he owed Mack Brown and Tim Brewster.

 

Mackovic’s offenses outsmarted themselves and made too many mistakes (the number of turnovers, penalties and negative plays were staggering). But he was an architect of pretty damn good offenses.

 

Harsin and Gilbert made chicken salad out of chicken shit. I’m confident both would rock shit if they had Vince Young, Colt or Priest, Ricky or Shon Mitchell with guys like Dan Neil blocking for them. Harsin knows attacking football. Gilbert knows that system.

 

Keep in mind, they’re king of the ants on offense since the Wishbone was adopted here. We owe most of our amazing offensive success to great recruiting, outathleting teams and once in a generation players.

I don"t remember Harsin's offense ever being that impressive against anyone with a pulse on Defense.  We lost to OU and looked like the chicken shit you speak of every time we played them with him at OC.  The plays developed so slowly we could barely move the ball against a speedy D.  I'd rather have Gilbert any day...

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7 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:


Unpossible. The posters on a scat site assured us that using the middle was against the rules and Gilbert only had 4 plays.

That was me assuring you that the middle was off limits. And it was off limits for everything but the running game and those PA passes to the TE. 

Seriously, I watched every offensive snap of the V/S at BU ( Tulsa film was hard to come by) and that was an imperative. Also, there’s more like 12 passing concepts, all dirt simple and you end up with more plays by mixing and matching the run concepts in then RPO. 

Its college. There’s time constraints. There isn’t time for Shawn Watson’s 3 year playbook install. 10-15 passing concept RPO’s is plenty. 

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I don"t remember Harsin's offense ever being that impressive against anyone with a pulse on Defense.  We lost to OU and looked like the chicken shit you speak of every time we played them with him at OC.  The plays developed so slowly we could barely move the ball against a speedy D.  I'd rather have Gilbert any day...


Well, look up the stats and compare them to the 2009 Texas squad. Then factor in the immense advantage of the ‘09 teams terrific special teams and defense over the 2012 Texas team. Harsin did this with Case McCoy and David Ash behind a stiff offensive line and guys at skill positions. This offense production was on par with that 09 bunch with Colt McCoy (who was rumored to have the flu early on).

Then do you recall how badly the ‘09 offense played against OU and Nebraska. The 2012 inept defense distorted your entire recollection of what Harsin did.

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17 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 


Well, look up the stats and compare them to the 2009 Texas squad. Then factor in the immense advantage of the ‘09 teams terrific special teams and defense over the 2012 Texas team. Harsin did this with Case McCoy and David Ash behind a stiff offensive line and guys at skill positions. This offense production was on par with that 09 bunch with Colt McCoy (who was rumored to have the flu early on).

Then do you recall how badly the ‘09 offense played against OU and Nebraska. The 2012 inept defense distorted your entire recollection of what Harsin did.
 

 

I recall that OU defense was one of the stoutest they have had, and Nebraska was due to a terrible Oline letting Suh dominate them....There is no way Harsins offense or anyone would have stopped Suh that day with the same players on the Oline.  Harsin was OK, but think there are way better out their.  My biggest complaint are his plays took way to long to develop, kind of like watching our offense now move at a snails pace.  Harsins offense had a lot of smoke and mirrors but was not hard for decent defenses to stuff.

 

 

Edited by Ramdiesel
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7 hours ago, Tex Long said:

I woulda been happy if MensaTom had kept Gilbert/Mattox, but...

Briles and Leach have in common in their playcalling that they kept calling the same option play over and over until the oppo stopped it - and then ran the wrinkle/constraint of the same play.

 

I'm a firm believer in that philosophy, if something is working really well, keep exploiting it until they adjust.   If you run a jet sweep and gain +7 yards every time, keep running it until they adjust.  Once the corner starts cheating, line it up again and burn him outside.  

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1 hour ago, Ramdiesel said:

I recall that OU defense was one of the stoutest they have had, and Nebraska was due to a terrible Oline letting Suh dominate them....There is no way Harsins offense or anyone would have stopped Suh that day with the same players on the Oline.  Harsin was OK, but think there are way better out their.  My biggest complaint are his plays took way to long to develop, kind of like watching our offense now move at a snails pace.  Harsins offense had a lot of smoke and mirrors but was not hard for decent defenses to stuff.

 

 

Dude presented you a sound data backed argument and your response is to fuck up their/there/they're? TFOH.

 

But since you were either incapable of understanding or just too lazy, according to CFBAnalytics.com 2009 Texas adjusted offense (i.e., accounts for strength of defenses faced) ranked 4th while 2012 ranked 7th. One of those years featured Colt McCoy and GDGD while the other featured Case McCoy and Harsin. You can figure out which is more impressive.

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41 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Dude presented you a sound data backed argument and your response is to fuck up their/there/they're? TFOH.

 

But since you were either incapable of understanding or just too lazy, according to CFBAnalytics.com 2009 Texas adjusted offense (i.e., accounts for strength of defenses faced) ranked 4th while 2012 ranked 7th. One of those years featured Colt McCoy and GDGD while the other featured Case McCoy and Harsin. You can figure out which is more impressive.

That is like comparing apples to oranges.  2008 and 2009 were maybe the best football years overall in the history of the Big 12.  The in conference schedule was tough in those years.  2012?  We lost to just about every decent team we played with Harsin as OC.  We lost to OU, we lost to WVU, and we lost to TCU....You see the theme with Harsin at OC? ..I can't think of any game we won with Harsin as OC that we should not have won?  Yeah, he didnt ever have the teams or QBs to work with that Davis had, but neither did Leach at Tech, or Mangino at Kansas, or Pinkel at Mizzou, or Gundy at Okie State,  etc.  There was a lot of coaches in the Big 12 that won a lot of games with supposedly inferior athletes... The wins we got when Harsin was here were over cupcakes. We barely beat Baylor and Kansas in 2012.

Edited by Ramdiesel
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1 hour ago, Ramdiesel said:

That is like comparing apples to oranges.  2008 and 2009 were maybe the best football years overall in the history of the Big 12.  The in conference schedule was tough in those years.  2012?  We lost to just about every decent team we played with Harsin as OC.  We lost to OU, we lost to WVU, and we lost to TCU....You see the theme with Harsin at OC? ..I can't think of any game we won with Harsin as OC that we should not have won?  Yeah, he didnt ever have the teams or QBs to work with that Davis had, but neither did Leach at Tech, or Mangino at Kansas, or Pinkel at Mizzou, or Gundy at Okie State,  etc.  There was a lot of coaches in the Big 12 that won a lot of games with supposedly inferior athletes... The wins we got when Harsin was here were over cupcakes. We barely beat Baylor and Kansas in 2012.

The common factor with all these good coaches failing here is Bad Mack and his shitty recruits. 

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That is like comparing apples to oranges.  2008 and 2009 were maybe the best football years overall in the history of the Big 12.  The in conference schedule was tough in those years.  2012?  We lost to just about every decent team we played with Harsin as OC.  We lost to OU, we lost to WVU, and we lost to TCU....You see the theme with Harsin at OC? ..I can't think of any game we won with Harsin as OC that we should not have won?  Yeah, he didnt ever have the teams or QBs to work with that Davis had, but neither did Leach at Tech, or Mangino at Kansas, or Pinkel at Mizzou, or Gundy at Okie State,  etc.  There was a lot of coaches in the Big 12 that won a lot of games with supposedly inferior athletes... The wins we got when Harsin was here were over cupcakes. We barely beat Baylor and Kansas in 2012.
Yes, 2012 WVU was clearly the offensive coordinator's failure. Brilliant insight.
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Harsin with a 2009 Colt McCoy and Jordan Shipley would be a nightmare for defenses. Harsin knew how to punish overpursuit, alignment errors and attack weak links and could do so in real time within the flow of the game.

The offense would not have depended on Colt scrambling around making off schedule plays and subsequently getting obliterated by defensive players. You’d see games where Colt wouldnt even get touched. You’d also see Shipley wide the fuck open 3-4 times a game. You’d also see DJ Monroe and Marquise Goodwin more.

Harsin was our most talented offensive coordinator.

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25 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:
7 hours ago, Ramdiesel said:
That is like comparing apples to oranges.  2008 and 2009 were maybe the best football years overall in the history of the Big 12.  The in conference schedule was tough in those years.  2012?  We lost to just about every decent team we played with Harsin as OC.  We lost to OU, we lost to WVU, and we lost to TCU....You see the theme with Harsin at OC? ..I can't think of any game we won with Harsin as OC that we should not have won?  Yeah, he didnt ever have the teams or QBs to work with that Davis had, but neither did Leach at Tech, or Mangino at Kansas, or Pinkel at Mizzou, or Gundy at Okie State,  etc.  There was a lot of coaches in the Big 12 that won a lot of games with supposedly inferior athletes... The wins we got when Harsin was here were over cupcakes. We barely beat Baylor and Kansas in 2012.

 

Yes, 2012 WVU was clearly the offensive coordinator's failure. Brilliant insight.

Yeah, dumb take for anyone who actually watched the game.  Offense scores 38 points on over 400 yards, but Manny _iaz's unit gives up 48 points on 460 yards.

And barely beating Baylor?  Harsin's offense put up 56 points.  The defense gave up 50 on over 600 yards!

The win at Kansas was a frustrating head scratcher.  Ash had a shitty game with 2 picks and we needed a herp derp in the final minutes to pull out the win. But that game was far from defining our season or Harsin's performance.

Overall the 2012 offense was pretty damn good, and it was one of the statistically worst defenses in Texas history that prevented it from becoming a great season.  As you recall, it caused Mack to bring in Greg Robinson as a "consultant."  I'd say Brian Harsin carried the 2012 team on his shoulders.

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