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Butch Had Not

Plastic modeling

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1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

What kind of paint are you using?

I used to never prime, but with recent models I do, often times because there are also metal widgets on the things I build.

That's a question I don't know the answer to right now.  Care to enlighten me on the differences and pros and cons?

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3 hours ago, Butch Had Not said:

Dumb question. Watching the videos on YouTube I don't think I've watched anyone priming the parts. Is that something that's not needed?

They prime, they just don't necessarily show it. Virtually everything you paint should be primed ... especially if you end up using acrylics, which are super easy to use and clean but very fragile.

It's best to construct a sub-assembly that contains as many parts as possible but "open" enough that you can easily access everything. Prime the entire thing, lay down your base color(s), then come back with a fine brush for individual details.

Of course, there's a lot more you could do--such as mixing darker and lighter shades of your base to embellish shadows and highlights--but this would turn into a book. Start small and take it as far as you want over time.

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44 minutes ago, Butch Had Not said:

That's a question I don't know the answer to right now.  Care to enlighten me on the differences and pros and cons?

Like Braff said, acrylics are easy but can scratch. Enamels stay on there like armor.

With normal handling though, acrylics should work fine.

The main thing is clean up. With acrylics you thin the paint and wash brushes with water. With enamels you are breathing in a stew of nasty thinner and who knows what. I switched to acrylics decades ago and hopefully have sustained less nerve damage.

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To keep the pics coming, these are "sort of" a plastic kit-- 28mm British Long Range Desert Group and Infantry for games set in North Africa/Italy. Lots of little fiddly bits.

67926177_10101386837897949_2317899274471

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3 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

I switched to acrylics decades ago and hopefully have sustained less nerve damage.

Yeah, but there are all those other chemicals we intake, particularly the ones from Colombia or Bolivia ...

Seriously, though, I'd strongly recommend acrylics for the bulk of your coloring. They are so, so, SO easy to work with, and they dry super quick. You can always eliminate durability issues by covering it with a generous matte, semi-gloss, or gloss varnish at the end.

Outside of washes, enamels are my least favorite. If you don't care about your brain or your lungs, lacquers are amazing-the drying time of acrylics combined with the durability of enamels. But they are death in volatile form.

And oils are the best for weathering. But that's next-level shit.

This is a great thread, btw. Considered making one months ago but wasn't sure there'd be any interest. Props to OP.

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I appreciate all the feedback. Kind of surprised to see no thread for this as I would imagine someone like me would have started one already trying to get back into this after over 25 years since the last ones I did. 

Where are the best places or websites (amazon?) to purchase paint? 

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Even after shipping (which caps at $9.95, I believe), this site consistently has the best prices in the U.S. for scale models and materials (except for those focused on civilian vehicles):

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/

If you're looking into acrylics, I'd recommend "true" non-toxic, water-based ones like Vallejo, Citadel, etc. Tamiya's acrylics shoot/brush well but are actually alcohol based.

Amazon is often cheaper for incidentals, like branded thinner or airbrush cleaner. It's also a good place to start for a beginner airbrush and compressor, if you want to go that route.

eBay is a shitshow but is the cheapest source I've found for the newer Tamiya kits (like the outstanding Spitfire Mk I or the Kawasaki Ki-61-1d).

My focus is military aircraft, particularly WW2 props in 1/48 scale, so consider all of the above in context.

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Am I crazy for thinking there is a renaissance of sorts? 

Thanks to the internet, on the one hand, it feels like the hobby is bigger than ever, and if you toss in all of the game pieces and anime/sci-fi/etc. models people are doing, it probably is bigger than ever.

On the other hand, the internet can make it look like there is more going on than there actually is.   There's probably plenty of hobby shops online that are probably nothing more than some guy buying from Asia, and selling it out of his basement or shed or a storage unit.  That was hard to do 20 years or more, ago, but easy in this day and age.

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5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There's probably plenty of hobby shops online that are probably nothing more than some guy buying from Asia, and selling it out of his basement or shed or a storage unit.  That was hard to do 20 years or more, ago, but easy in this day and age.

I was actually that guy until recently-- my uncle at age 77 realized he wasn't going to build the kits he had accumulated since the late 50s, so I sold 5 tupperware bins of them for him on eBay. Still got a few, will probably keep them to maybe build myself.

He is not an isolated case. Every time an old school gamer/modeller kicks off, his family is left with a shed worth of unbuilt (sometimes unopened) kits that hopefully get scooped up and resold.

Hobby stores were a tough racket even before the internet. The ones of my youth tended to be run by retired NCOs who stayed in their last Air Force/Army town. I am lucky to live walking distance from a really nice one that's been around for more than 50 years. Every now and then I go pay retail for something, just to let them know I'm glad they're there.

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3 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Hobby stores were a tough racket even before the internet. The ones of my youth tended to be run by retired NCOs who stayed in their last Air Force/Army town. I am lucky to live walking distance from a really nice one that's been around for more than 50 years. Every now and then I go pay retail for something, just to let them know I'm glad they're there.

I'm always impressed with the hobby shops that were able to stick it out long enough, until the internet came along.  It had to be tough for the mom-and-pop shops who only had a local audience (unless they were willing to cough up the money for an ad in Finescale Modeler or one of the other mags).

Yeah, the internet definitely hurt plenty of hobby shops, but arguably some of those were going to die anyways as kids spent more and more time on videogames/TV/modern electronic wizardry.

But a lot of those shops are survived were able to move online - I helped a friend's dad get setup with selling through Amazon, eBay, etc. several years ago, and he does more business online than he does through the physical store. At this point, their physical store is basically for storing inventory and to ship out of.   RPG figurines do make up a lot of his profits though....

Would be fun sometime to do a deep dive on the topic, and see if there are more models being manufactured, more people buying them, etc. here in 2019 vs 1989 and 1999.  

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I don't think my wife would want me doing a model of Marshall Jessie, but damn I want to dive in and do a bunch of these WWI bombers.  Those bombers - I think when I was a kid, even in the larger shops, I usually only saw Sopwith Camels, Spads, or Fokkers.

We just took our kids on the USS Texas a few months ago, may have to get the smaller version.  Includes photo-etched parts.  Photo-etched stuff was for the hardcore modelers when I was a kid.

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Digging this thread.  But now I'm rethinking my paints!!  I guess I'll work through these enamel paints and switch to acrylic. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm always impressed with the hobby shops that were able to stick it out long enough, until the internet came along.  It had to be tough for the mom-and-pop shops who only had a local audience (unless they were willing to cough up the money for an ad in Finescale Modeler or one of the other mags).

Yeah, the internet definitely hurt plenty of hobby shops, but arguably some of those were going to die anyways as kids spent more and more time on videogames/TV/modern electronic wizardry.

But a lot of those shops are survived were able to move online - I helped a friend's dad get setup with selling through Amazon, eBay, etc. several years ago, and he does more business online than he does through the physical store. At this point, their physical store is basically for storing inventory and to ship out of.   RPG figurines do make up a lot of his profits though....

Would be fun sometime to do a deep dive on the topic, and see if there are more models being manufactured, more people buying them, etc. here in 2019 vs 1989 and 1999.  

Models like vinyl records are coming back? 

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24 minutes ago, Chico_SA said:

Digging this thread.  But now I'm rethinking my paints!!  I guess I'll work through these enamel paints and switch to acrylic. 

During your next physical, when the doc asks if you smoke, do drugs, etc., make sure and mention you work with enamels.

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25 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

During your next physical, when the doc asks if you smoke, do drugs, etc., make sure and mention you work with enamels.

Are they that bad ?  I mean who's sitting in a confined space, and huffing them ?

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I was actually that guy until recently-- my uncle at age 77 realized he wasn't going to build the kits he had accumulated since the late 50s, so I sold 5 tupperware bins of them for him on eBay. Still got a few, will probably keep them to maybe build myself.
He is not an isolated case. Every time an old school gamer/modeller kicks off, his family is left with a shed worth of unbuilt (sometimes unopened) kits that hopefully get scooped up and resold.
Hobby stores were a tough racket even before the internet. The ones of my youth tended to be run by retired NCOs who stayed in their last Air Force/Army town. I am lucky to live walking distance from a really nice one that's been around for more than 50 years. Every now and then I go pay retail for something, just to let them know I'm glad they're there.


When I was a preteen I used to scour small town five and dimes to get old kits. I’ll bet there are a couple dozen still at my folks house.

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15 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

 


When I was a preteen I used to scour small town five and dimes to get old kits. I’ll bet there are a couple dozen still at my folks house.

Yeah, model kits were everywhere in the 60s. Our little corner gas station/country store had a few. Stared a hole through many a 1 dollar kit that I "couldn't afford."* (Up hill both ways barefoot, etc etc.)

 

 

 

*Couldn't afford after basic necessities like candy, soft drinks, comic books...

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On 7/29/2019 at 7:36 AM, atomheartbevo said:

Am I crazy for thinking there is a renaissance of sorts?

My initial impulse was to respond, "Hell yes!" because I see less of the models that I like to build and fewer of the mom-and-pop shops that once sold them. Upon further reflection, however, I believe you are correct and not at all crazy.

For one, consumer tastes have changed, but overall interest still seems high. The 20th century-era kits of my youth have given way to sci-fi/fantasy-themed offerings like Star Wars spaceships or Warhammer miniatures.

Second, the quality of most contemporary kits far exceeds what was available 50, 40, even 20 years ago thanks to better design/manufacturing techniques like CAD and slide molding. There's been a corresponding improvement in tools and materials, as well. And thanks to the Internet, the average skill level has increased dramatically because so much expertise is being shared.

On the subject of mom-and-pop shops, anyone remember Village Hobby off Anderson Lane (near Fuddrucker's and the Village Cinema across from Northcross Mall)? I imagine the shop is no more and the principals have long since passed, but it was my absolute favorite store to visit as a youth.

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On 7/29/2019 at 1:02 PM, RDCanecutter said:

He is not an isolated case. Every time an old school gamer/modeller kicks off, his family is left with a shed worth of unbuilt (sometimes unopened) kits that hopefully get scooped up and resold.

Thus the scale modeler's credo--"Collector of many, builder of few!"

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40 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

On the subject of mom-and-pop shops, anyone remember Village Hobby off Anderson Lane (near Fuddrucker's and the Village Cinema across from Northcross Mall)? I imagine the shop is no more and the principals have long since passed, but it was my absolute favorite store to visit as a youth.

I was there within the last 10 years - not sure how long ago (want to say within 5 years, but can't remember), but I loved their train setup.  Shame they couldn't move over by Dragon's Lair and Terra Toys, they mighta had a chance.  

In regards to your comments above, quality is the first thing I noticed - perhaps the market has shrunk and it's weeded out the crap and/or the market changed, and the younger kids/teens that would be doing the cheapo models are now doing LEGO, videogames, etc.  But I've been amazed at some of the kits out there.

Not that some companies aren't still making those cheap-feeling kits (And I'm aware that somebody is re-releasing the old Airfix kits or whatever), but I've seen a lot of quality stuff out there.

YouTube has to be a God-send for the hobby as well.

When I was a kid, a lot of times, it felt like I had to get what was available at the local hobby shop/Hobby Lobby/whatever, but now I can find just about anything and have it at the house within a week.

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2 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

 I always enjoyed models as a boy.  The exactness, the attention to every foreseeable detail… 

Then you need that Marshal Jessie model I mentioned.  I was never big on western kits, but...

So when do we start the toothpick fort/castle thread?

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On 7/30/2019 at 11:25 AM, RDCanecutter said:

Yeah, model kits were everywhere in the 60s. Our little corner gas station/country store had a few. Stared a hole through many a 1 dollar kit that I "couldn't afford."* (Up hill both ways barefoot, etc etc.)

 

 

 

*Couldn't afford after basic necessities like candy, soft drinks, comic books...

Giving Sally Johnson $.50 to lift her skirt....

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Got going on my F18. So far it's been good.  Its relaxing.  Just spending time with instructions and cleaning parts and assembling. Surprised more by the peacefulness of it all more than anything. 

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20 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

For one, consumer tastes have changed, but overall interest still seems high. The 20th century-era kits of my youth have given way to sci-fi/fantasy-themed offerings like Star Wars spaceships or Warhammer miniatures.

Yeah, my impression is that the military kits that I saw everywhere in the 60s and 70s gave way with a vengeance to Warhammer models starting in the 80s.

For those who don't darken the doors of game stores, Warhammer is an addictive game that sucks guys into buying dozens of models and hundreds of figurines, which they then assemble but traditionally find it hard to paint. When they sink at least $500 into a force, the Warhammer rules writers then change everything and make that force unplayable. Next step in the ritual is that the gamers then swear off Warhammer forever. Fast forward a year, and they are back at it playing Warhammer again, with a new, expensive, probably unpainted army. Repeat cycle every two years.

I don't play it (don't know why not, I'm certainly high enough in nerd-belts), but I did paint some models for a dude.

67421337_10101390359001629_8539568799009

67551116_10101390359011609_5398864892839

To add to the story, and unite two Surly threads, the guy wanted to sell his coin collection, so I had him pay me in silver dollars, Mexican Libertads, and whatever else he had clinking around.

67821549_10101390363732149_5552433973948

67830294_10101390363762089_1850829372102

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15 hours ago, Butch Had Not said:

Got going on my F18. So far it's been good.  Its relaxing.  Just spending time with instructions and cleaning parts and assembling. Surprised more by the peacefulness of it all more than anything. 

It's definitely that. No bloops, no beeps, just being in the moment.

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Excellent work, RD.

I see dry brushing, washes, and some chipping. At that scale, do you brush your base or are you shooting? Any pre- or post-shading?

Also, did you take any pics during the process that you'd care to share? I don't do miniatures, so I'd love to see how you go about it.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Excellent work, RD.

I see dry brushing, washes, and some chipping. At that scale, do you brush your base or are you shooting? Any pre- or post-shading?

Also, did you take any pics during the process that you'd care to share? I don't do miniatures, so I'd love to see how you go about it.

Thanks Braff.

With models I am of the "Make it look good two feet away" school, sometimes that makes for a rough looking close-up, but with tanks, you really can't hurt them with an extra-grungy look.

I don't own an airbrush. I spray black primer all up in the recesses, dry-brush white across the cracks several times to build up pasty white highlights, but with the black still strong in the low areas, when that dries I then stain with washes. For the appearance of bare metal I paint flat black then put a wee bit of metallic on the edge. Lately for gun metal I just paint black and then rub pencil lead along the top.

For certain colors, like red, I'll do a base coat with a little blue or brown mixed in, then thicker pure red on the highlights. For "clean" whites, I will do abase coat in sky blue then do white over that. You can get a more parchment effect by substituting tan for the sky blue.

For glass reflections I go for a cartoonish effect by basecoating blue, adding a thin stripe of light blue along the top, then a small white dot at one end of the light blue stripe.

Will see what photos I have of in-progress work.

Edited by RDCanecutter

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I was such a little slob doing this as a kid.  Got that damn testers glue all over everything, couldn't paint for shit.  I do remember the first model I built with a friend (so bad), it was an AD6 Skyraider, which remains one of my favorite planes.  

The last model I built was a Douglas TBD Devastator.  It's trim was aluminum, so I painted it silver and it was actually pretty decent.  I did not get glue all over everything, even painted up the pilot.  I'm guessing that was about 7th grade.

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The last model I built was a Douglas TBD Devastator.  It's trim was aluminum, so I painted it silver and it was actually pretty decent.  I did not get glue all over everything, even painted up the pilot.  I'm guessing that was about 7th grade.

So you stopped when you hit puberty?

That sounds about right.

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So you stopped when you hit puberty?
That sounds about right.

Yup. As soon as I got my drivers license, that was it.

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Don't have the patience for the hobby myself but I follow a youtuber named Plasmo - he's got some unbelievable work on his channel. Second vid is one I just came across which is also amazing. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, vicerous said:

Don't have the patience for the hobby myself but I follow a youtuber named Plasmo - he's got some unbelievable work on his channel.

Mr. Damek does amazing work. Only knock I have is his panel lines often seem overdone, but if I had that level of skill, it'd be difficult not to indulge it.

He used to not speak at all, but either his English has improved or he's become more confident/comfortable talking on camera. (Incidentally, most of these guys are in Europe. Scale modeling is more popular there, apparently.)

Some other YouTube modelers worth your time:

  • Scale-a-ton (criminally under-subbed, probably cuz of the background music)
  • Frédéric Mertès (ridiculously skilled weathering and chipping)
  • Scale Model Workshop (a dentist who is occasionally unintentionally hilarious; the Anal Retentive Chef of modelers)
  • ScaleModelAircraft (more than just aircraft!)
  • Miniac (in-your-face miniatures)
  • Night Shift (mostly armor tutorials)
  • Scale Hangar 182 (little bit of everything)
  • The Inner Nerd (mostly military aircraft)
  • Max_Afterburner (primarily modern jets)
  • And TOMs Modelling in Motion, whose videos are as much a work of art as his models are. Honestly, incredible stuff. Here's his latest example:

 

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What kind of spray painting set up do any of y'all have? Create your own cardboard booth? That's probably what I'm looking at doing. 

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15 minutes ago, Butch Had Not said:

What kind of spray painting set up do any of y'all have? Create your own cardboard booth? That's probably what I'm looking at doing. 

When I spray anything, I do it outside on a part of the deck that we'll soon have to replace anyway.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Butch Had Not said:

What kind of spray painting set up do any of y'all have? Create your own cardboard booth? That's probably what I'm looking at doing. 

If you go this route, make sure you're moving air out the back effectively, else you'll get lots of bounceback. Here's a link to a YouTube vid of a guy who built his own, although he runs off the rails when he uses a 3D printer, imo. Still, might be a good starting point:

Spoiler

 

Since I mostly use non-toxic acrylics, I often roll the dice and spray indoors without a booth, but not all acrylics are non-toxic (e.g., varnishes). I've been toying with the notion of buying one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Airbrush-Paint-Spray-Booth-3-LED-Light-Tubes-Exhaust-Filter-Extractor/392362725876

This portable booth, branded or unbranded, is available from multiple sellers on eBay and Amazon. It's offered with only the exhaust fan; with fan and hose; and with fan, hose, and LED lighting. There are even extra-wide versions floating around with two units hooked together (they are apparently modular).

It's probably too small to suit your needs if you're spraying from a can as the nozzle pattern would be too large, but it would be just right for an airbrush.

There are countless reviews on the product pages. Here's a YouTube review, as well:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Braff Zacklin

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On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:29 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Thanks Braff.

With models I am of the "Make it look good two feet away" school, sometimes that makes for a rough looking close-up, but with tanks, you really can't hurt them with an extra-grungy look.

I don't own an airbrush. I spray black primer all up in the recesses, dry-brush white across the cracks several times to build up pasty white highlights, but with the black still strong in the low areas, when that dries I then stain with washes. For the appearance of bare metal I paint flat black then put a wee bit of metallic on the edge. Lately for gun metal I just paint black and then rub pencil lead along the top.

For certain colors, like red, I'll do a base coat with a little blue or brown mixed in, then thicker pure red on the highlights. For "clean" whites, I will do abase coat in sky blue then do white over that. You can get a more parchment effect by substituting tan for the sky blue.

For glass reflections I go for a cartoonish effect by basecoating blue, adding a thin stripe of light blue along the top, then a small white dot at one end of the light blue stripe.

Will see what photos I have of in-progress work.

The sky blue abase coat was a hand-me-down in our house. Thanks for the reminder.

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On 7/28/2019 at 11:00 PM, Braff Zacklin said:

Even after shipping (which caps at $9.95, I believe), this site consistently has the best prices in the U.S. for scale models and materials (except for those focused on civilian vehicles):

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/

 

browsing the little accessory packs makes me want to finish the 1/350th missouri i've had tucked in a closet for 30 years. 

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52 minutes ago, elfenix said:

browsing the little accessory packs makes me want to finish the 1/350th missouri i've had tucked in a closet for 30 years. 

That's how it starts. Haha

 

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Picked up this Das Boat 1/150 scale a couple years ago in a thrift shop in the Outer banks FullSizeRender-123.thumb.jpg.e5ebfc31e723c386d131928d6b39d0c2.jpgof NC.. Its in Japanese, but I think the instructions are clear enough about what goes where with pics and shit I'll be able to knock it out once I get some free time. It's a submersible model with a motor, so not sure how that will all work out.

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On 8/7/2019 at 4:40 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Picked up this Das Boat 1/150 scale a couple years ago in a thrift shop in the Outer banks FullSizeRender-123.thumb.jpg.e5ebfc31e723c386d131928d6b39d0c2.jpgof NC.. Its in Japanese, but I think the instructions are clear enough about what goes where with pics and shit I'll be able to knock it out once I get some free time. It's a submersible model with a motor, so not sure how that will all work out.

Tie some fishing line to it.

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On 8/9/2019 at 1:22 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Tie some fishing line to it.

Fishing line is cheaper and easier to deal with than a snorkel and mask.

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Got my son a car for his birthday for us to build together. He’s 8, so this should be interesting.

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7 hours ago, Goofyboy said:


Got my son a car for his birthday for us to build together. He’s 8, so this should be interesting.

Sounds like a Pine Wood Derby project.

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Nah... went all in on a plastic model. He can be incredibly patient and focused if he’s into what he is doing. If he like this, I think he will thrive on it. If he doesn’t, he will get frustrated quickly and I get to build it.

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