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Machinator

2019-20 Big 12 thread

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Like Louisville with the stripper parties, we can't prove it was more than one coach acting out, but it falls on the school not to hire guys who behave that way (taking bribes to influence amateurs on their pro decisions). I admit what specifically Evans did with the money is unclear, so this has a chance to reverse on appeal. 

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Missed this thread yesterday. All I can say is, "Wow."

At this point, how the NCAA arbitrarily chooses to enforce its policies and punish violators should surprise no one, and yet ...

Just wow.

Sincere condolences to 'stache, Homer, Go Pokes, and other Cowboys fans. The way the team finished 2020 had me thinking it might make waves come tourney time in '21.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Dude, what? Of course cheating happens, but even the FBI concluded that he was operating solely on his own behalf and the NCAA concurred in their own investigation, so I'm not sure where you're getting basically any of this. Basically everyone involved agreed that OSU was a victim in this case.

And agreed we never played an ineligible player. The reason you punish the institution for “lone actors” is because the school gets a competitive advantage by paying players, cheating academically to keep them eligible, having ineligible players winning games for you while the rule followers suspend their own, shit like that. It’s also to encourage compliance offices to work extra hard. We had one player who received $300 and compliance found it out immediately. We reported it, made him pay it back, sat him three games, and the NCAA cleared him to play again.

Evans was committing a federal fucking crime to enrich solely himself. The fucking FBI didn’t know about it until someone ratted them out in an SEC ( Securities Exchange Commission) investigation. What in any of NCAA compliance training makes one to expect them to have the training or ability to complete with the F B FUCKING I and the Securities Exchange Commission in investigating federal financial crimes! Where is school compliance supposed to fit into this discovery? This makes no fucking sense other than the NCAA being shitheads as usual to non bluebloods.

 

CA3CFF4C-153D-4B1F-AEC4-C3D3DB233703.jpeg

Edited by 'stache

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Posted (edited)

 And Kansas’ part of this did in fact include payments to players who then played so were ineligible. So even a “lone actor” defense is weaker because the program benefited on the court. They have five level 1 violations. The NCAA is already throwing out “each case is different dont consider this precedent” (which in and of itself is absurd because if you are enforcing rules and regulations is sort of a big deal in every democratic form or rules enforcement that precedents matter). If KU gets the same or less it will be so absurd I just won’t be able to care anymore. Which sucks because I love my school and our teams and I hate to stop supporting them but any and all joy is just absent with this type of rigged dumbshittery.

Edited by 'stache

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On 6/6/2020 at 11:32 AM, Braff Zacklin said:

Missed this thread yesterday. All I can say is, "Wow."

At this point, how the NCAA arbitrarily chooses to enforce its policies and punish violators should surprise no one, and yet ...

Just wow.

Sincere condolences to 'stache, Homer, Go Pokes, and other Cowboys fans. The way the team finished 2020 had me thinking it might make waves come tourney time in '21.

There is no standard and never will be.  The P5 shcools have to stand up like they did for CFB and take the power from the NCAA.  The problem there is that the P5 schools give money to the NCAA and the NCAA is the whipping boy to protect amateurism.  Now with NIL rights the P5 should just tell the NCAA they are going to have their own tourney every year and make/enforce their own rules.  Then the NCAA would get in line.

An interesting development in this whole deal is that Zion has been ordered to testify in a case against his former manager (now stayed upon the further evidence review: detailed below).  He was told he has to answer questions regarding his HS recruitment.  The lawsuit is for $100M.  My bet is that Duke comes forward and pays a settlement on Zion's behalf (probably $8-10M or so) and gets him out of court ASAP.  If he testifies then no school will have the NCAA to protect it.

https://www.si.com/college/duke/basketball/zion-williamson-former-agent-gives-details

Quote

Ford’s attorneys provided text messages between officials at Nike that appear to be discussing giving payments to the then high-schooler in 2017.

The series of texts seemed to chronicle an ongoing negotiation over Williamson’s compensation.

“Just told them we could to the 30K too,” said one.

“Are we willing to do … whatever may be needed for the Zion … situations,” said another, and a third said that Williamson was now at “35 plus,” presumably an increase over the “30K” in the earlier text.

Another text said that a Nike official was “willing to spend to cripple adidas … is more than worth me spinning the approximate 100K to support the efforts … I will figure out the money part.”

A later update said, “Still has not presented our new offer. Only hinted at it. He did not want to put it in print which I agreed with.”

Ford’s filing claimed that Nike paid Williamson’s mother for “alleged consulting services.”

The filing also detailed a conversation with an assistant coach at Kansas, where Williamson allegedly made demands.

“This is the player,” the conversation was quoted, “He’s asking for opportunities from an occupational perspective. He’s asking for money in the pocket. And he’s asking for housing for him and his family.”

The housing issue eventually implicated Duke directly. Ford’s team presented evidence that Williamson’s family lived in an $895 monthly rental in South Carolina valued at $153,000.

“After Plaintiff selected Duke and moved to North Carolina,” the filing states, “he and his family resided in a property which was valued at approximately $950,000 at that time and for which the monthly rent was listed at ($4,995). This property is owned by Thomas Morris, who, upon information and belief, is an alumnus of Duke.”

Williamson’s mother and stepfather also had three luxury cars—an Escalade, Yukon and Mercedes, registered between December 2017 and April 2019.

If this doesn't get an actual investigation into Duke then what in the actual fuck?  I'm convinced KU is going to go down hard.  The funny thing is that the smoking gun to tie adidas as a booster to KU is the convo between adidas and our assistant coach about zion.  If that is the evidence you use to say KU explicitly asked for players to be paid then you have to investigate and rule the player ineligible.  Unless you're the ncaa of course.

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54 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

There is no standard and never will be.  The P5 shcools have to stand up like they did for CFB and take the power from the NCAA.  The problem there is that the P5 schools give money to the NCAA and the NCAA is the whipping boy to protect amateurism.  Now with NIL rights the P5 should just tell the NCAA they are going to have their own tourney every year and make/enforce their own rules.  Then the NCAA would get in line.

An interesting development in this whole deal is that Zion has been ordered to testify in a case against his former manager (now stayed upon the further evidence review: detailed below).  He was told he has to answer questions regarding his HS recruitment.  The lawsuit is for $100M.  My bet is that Duke comes forward and pays a settlement on Zion's behalf (probably $8-10M or so) and gets him out of court ASAP.  If he testifies then no school will have the NCAA to protect it.

https://www.si.com/college/duke/basketball/zion-williamson-former-agent-gives-details

If this doesn't get an actual investigation into Duke then what in the actual fuck?  I'm convinced KU is going to go down hard.  The funny thing is that the smoking gun to tie adidas as a booster to KU is the convo between adidas and our assistant coach about zion.  If that is the evidence you use to say KU explicitly asked for players to be paid then you have to investigate and rule the player ineligible.  Unless you're the ncaa of course.

It's cute that you believe this.  Blue bloods are fucking bullet proof.

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11 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's cute that you believe this.  Blue bloods are fucking bullet proof.

If you have to slam a blue blood to make a point which one are you going to slam? It’s flyover country and a big scalp. Indiana got theirs. UCLA self sacrificed with their shitty hires. Now it’s KUs turn. 

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1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

If you have to slam a blue blood to make a point which one are you going to slam? It’s flyover country and a big scalp. Indiana got theirs. UCLA self sacrificed with their shitty hires. Now it’s KUs turn. 

Por que no todos

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On 6/11/2020 at 10:06 PM, Jhawk said:

If you have to slam a blue blood to make a point which one are you going to slam? It’s flyover country and a big scalp. Indiana got theirs. UCLA self sacrificed with their shitty hires. Now it’s KUs turn. 

The NCAA has fucked up by trying to shoot the moon on KU. We can talk about shady recruiting practices and innuendo all we want (I’m on record here on my opinion on that...it echoes Mike Brey’s comments), but 5 level 1 charges for what they actually have is insane and it’s why KU flew their middle finger and lawyered up. What the NCAA actually HAS is text messages about a player that signed with another school, alleged payment from Adidas for a player that signed but never played, and $2500 (rumors of a $20k that was allegedly agreed to but never paid) to a parent of a player that was hit with a 2 year suspension before it was reduced by a year on appeal. And while I don’t particularly believe it, there is under oath federal trial testimony that payments were intentionally hidden from KU.

Overplaying their hand against a crown jewel program with a joke for football revenue was and is going to get bloody, and with NIL payments on the horizon anyway...the NCAA is much more likely to be killed in that fight.

OSU got screwed (though I suspect reduced punishment on appeal), Mizzou got screwed. Schools should never, ever cooperate with the NCAA again. Especially basketball programs, where essentially every top 100 kid is ineligible if you dig enough.

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The only chance KU has is if coaches like mike brey can be called in as witnesses and explain their relationships with shoe companies.  That’s why I think this goes to actual court. No coaches are going to volunteer their schools to be hammered by the ncaa and there is no subpoena power to compel them.

getting to court could sound good for KU but the subpoena power swings both ways. How badly do we not want to get punished? How much punishment is Ku willing to accept? If we go to big boy court over this then the whole system is going to be burnt to the ground because I would guess that every known bagman of every big school will be subpoenaed and every shoe runner will be brought in. That is scorched earth territory and I’m willing to bet that Ku would accept a 1 year postseason ban, games vacated, and a half season suspension for Self before they go scorched earth. 

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Whatever KU gets, I bet it’s less than what they gave us. When this thing is over, I’ll wager nobody gets sanctions as harsh as ours. Well, nobody that matters.

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20 hours ago, Go Pokes said:

Whatever KU gets, I bet it’s less than what they gave us. When this thing is over, I’ll wager nobody gets sanctions as harsh as ours. Well, nobody that matters.

I can see that.  It is insane that a bad actor (from a previous regime) who ACTED ALONE can fuck the future of a bunch of kids, fans, and fellow coaches.  If you really want to punish the university then fine its endowment or something.  Don't remove scholarships (hurt future athletic opportunities), ban postseason play (hurt seniors and potential star performances that lift a kid's draft stock), and say "now don't do this again".  The punishments are asinine.  The NCAA is supposed to be for the student athlete but when the adults in the room fuck up their solution is to punish the student athlete.

The Zion lawsuit could blow this whole thing open but I'm willing to bet that Duke (or its boosters) might even step up and pay a settlement to keep him from being compelled to testify on payments and his recruitment.

The NCAA is so backward it isn't even funny.  You're required to police yourself and then when you turn yourself in they throw the book at you because you didn't preemptively police yourself and literally anyone who might have any interest in your programs being successful in the entire world, both corporate and individual.  It couldn't be any more obvious that the NCAA as an entity is wholly maintained for the sole purpose of covering for the ass of the "amateurism" model.

KU's best hope is to get into a long drawn out court case with the NCAA until they just want it to end.  Never cooperate.

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23 hours ago, Jhawk said:

I can see that.  It is insane that a bad actor (from a previous regime) who ACTED ALONE can fuck the future of a bunch of kids, fans, and fellow coaches.  If you really want to punish the university then fine its endowment or something.  Don't remove scholarships (hurt future athletic opportunities), ban postseason play (hurt seniors and potential star performances that lift a kid's draft stock), and say "now don't do this again".  The punishments are asinine.  The NCAA is supposed to be for the student athlete but when the adults in the room fuck up their solution is to punish the student athlete.

The Zion lawsuit could blow this whole thing open but I'm willing to bet that Duke (or its boosters) might even step up and pay a settlement to keep him from being compelled to testify on payments and his recruitment.

The NCAA is so backward it isn't even funny.  You're required to police yourself and then when you turn yourself in they throw the book at you because you didn't preemptively police yourself and literally anyone who might have any interest in your programs being successful in the entire world, both corporate and individual.  It couldn't be any more obvious that the NCAA as an entity is wholly maintained for the sole purpose of covering for the ass of the "amateurism" model.

KU's best hope is to get into a long drawn out court case with the NCAA until they just want it to end.  Never cooperate.

UNC gave everyone the blueprint--lawyer up, threaten back, put them on their heels, and wait until they settle/give up...

Okie State and Mizzou are both living proof of what not to do with the NCAA.

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