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23 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I would like to say there's probably a crossover between March for Life and those orgs, but is there one for something on the nature of black on black violence? If there isn't one, there should be since this ruins many black family's lives. A one year old was killed in New York City just recently, is that okay? Are you mad that I think someone should talk about this? Sorry that you're mad at me for saying a group should advocate for something but isn't. 

You are swimming in the non sequitur lane.

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1 minute ago, F250 said:

You are swimming in the non sequitur lane.

Yeah. What am I gonna say? I'm not mad that Black Lives Matter doesn't talk about this problem? I agree that I should start a talk about this, and should do a protest or some such.

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10 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I am still trying to figure out how you are drawing a string from criminal kills a black person and gets convicted to a person we pay to protect and serve killing someone and walking away scot free. Clarification?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Cause, they're both problems, unless you don't think so.

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7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Cause, they're both problems, unless you don't think so.

Do you believe that every organization that fights for a cause should also fight for every other worthwhile cause that exists in the world?

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48 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Thanks for not explaining who the hell the Sierra Club is. Maybe I should have asked who they were. 

I would like to say there's probably a crossover between March for Life and those orgs, but is there one for something on the nature of black on black violence? If there isn't one, there should be since this ruins many black family's lives. A one year old was killed in New York City just recently, is that okay? Are you mad that I think someone should talk about this? Sorry that you're mad at me for saying a group should advocate for something but isn't. 

If I put it in bold does your willful blindness start to become apparent to you?

"I like to think that people who are like me are good wholesome people who believe in all manners of wonderful causes. But I am genuinely unsure if people who support black people's right not to be wrongfully murdered by police officers also believe in multiple worthwhile causes. Can you help me out here?"

The problem, which is obvious to most people, is not that you think someone should talk about murders. It's that you put that onus on one particular group instead of the thousands of other groups who should also care about it.

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1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Do you believe that every organization that fights for a cause should also fight for every other worthwhile cause that exists in the world?

I figured if you have a name as such. if their is another group that does, then they're probably in it as well, and I'll be quite.

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1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

I figured if you have a name as such. if their is another group that does, then they're probably in it as well, and I'll be quite.

So every self-stylized pro-life group should also protest and speak out against the death penalty and every murder that happens anywhere in the country or even the world?

Or does your "have a name as such" logic conveniently only apply to one group for some unknowable reason? I mean we literally just discussed March for Life and how that group only exists and marches for the lives of people who haven't been born. Have you taken them to task for not speaking out about all life?

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18 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yeah. What am I gonna say? I'm not mad that Black Lives Matter doesn't talk about this problem? I agree that I should start a talk about this, and should do a protest or some such.

Tripling down on a bad take always works.

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2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So every self-stylized pro-life group should also protest and speak out against the death penalty and every murder that happens anywhere in the country or even the world?

Or does your "have a name as such" logic conveniently only apply to one group for some unknowable reason? I mean we literally just discussed March for Life and how that group only exists and marches for the lives of people who haven't been born. Have you taken them to task for not speaking out about all life?

You really are bored. I get what you're saying, man. 

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1 minute ago, F250 said:

Tripling down on a bad take always works.

Tripling down? I understand that they're not talking about what's been on the rise since the defunding of the police. If they're only going after the state, then alright.

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10 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Tripling down? I understand that they're not talking about what's been on the rise since the defunding of the police. If they're only going after the state, then alright.

I see where you are coming from.

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Just now, F250 said:

I see where you are coming from.

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Seriously, do you not think it's a problem that should be solved?

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14 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

These numbers are both surprising and encouraging.

 

"BLM is going about this all wrong if they want to increase support for their cause."

- Several noted Surly geniuses

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3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

"BLM is going about this all wrong if they want to increase support for their cause."

- Several noted Surly geniuses

Yep....

tenor.gif?itemid=5927413

 

The wrongness couldn't be wronger if they ran it through a magic wrongifying machine.  It's just fucking funny.

Tell ya what, fellas -- fuck off, we the people will stick with what's working, and we'll ignore the advice of people who are lying when they say "I sympathize with the movement, but they're going about it the wrong way."  What they find most wrong about it....is that it's fucking working.

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Posted (edited)

Here has been my observation and experience: I think for the casual, everyday laymen there is a disconnect between the BLM as a distinctive political machine and movement and BLM as it pertains to an idea or ideal of being anti-racist, pro-equality, diversity and inclusion and being a black-american ally, without a structure that's been created/maintained by people with all sorts of agendas.

At least for me and my family, we had no idea there was a distinction until George Floyd murder and subsequent protests. We came to find out that it's actually an organization, etc.

Edited by Rougarou

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Posted (edited)

There is a vigil at Carl Schurz Park that I go to that's on 86th. I have mentioned it before and don't go everyday to this, but I went on Monday evening. They let anyone who wants to talk for a couple of minutes do so when the speaker they have is finished. After Maeve Higgins was done speaking (Pretty funny Irish woman and NYT contributing writer) a few people got up to talk. A young girl got up and read from her phone a list of black people who have been killed by the police and a few others who have murders that have not yet been solved. When we were done with the nightly march around the park I told this young girl that she did a great job. I think it's good to encourage young people and give them the confidence to continue to be vocal. I asked her what she wanted to be when she grows up and one of the two things she said was she wants to play in the WNBA. That's not uncommon to hear kids wanting to be a professional athlete. I think most of us that played sports as kids had that dream at some point. 

She says her favorite athlete is Candace Parker (I laughed and told her Candace would kill me one-on-one), but where she goes in an entirely different direction was she began to tell me the salaries of the average WNBA player. She told me what Lebron James makes each year from his NBA salary. She then says that she understands that the WNBA doesn't have as many fans and does not take in as much money as the NBA, but she doesn't like how underpaid female professional athletes are. She also does not like that they have to go overseas in the winter to play to make more money. Unprompted she tells me about Maya Moore taking two years off from the WNBA to pursue social justice causes and that if Elena Delle Donne's health situation happened to an NBA player that the league would not have hesitated to let that player sit out the season. 

What really got me was that she mentioned that if they go back to school in the fall she wants to give a speech to her school about slavery. In her own words "It won't be a speech that talks about good things" and she is not certain how she will be received for giving that speech, but she wants to do so. She said she has already sat down with her principal and voiced concern that not enough attention is paid to black history and that she wants her school to have a more diverse options for learning history. She said she wants to learn more about slavery and that she uses the internet right now to do it since she is taught very little in school about it. I gave her the name of a friend (She grew up in the same neighborhood and has spoke at this vigil before) she could get in contact with who can help her out in attempting to get the curriculum she wants because my friend has a focus on a multicultural curriculum in NYC schools. This young lady was all of 11 going on 12. When I was that age I was playing video games and sports. I told her to keep going to that vigil and keep talking. Hearing her speak with such passion and knowledge about what is important to her at such a young age was pretty freaking cool. An older woman there remarked to me how awesome it was to hear this young lady having her voice heard and that she speaks so confidently in regards to her convictions.

For people who are on the fence about going to anything this is what you are helping just by being there. You give confidence to people to grow into leaders that may have otherwise felt like there was not a support system for them. 

Edited by UpperWestside

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She told me what Lebron James makes each year from his NBA salary. She then says that she understands that the WNBA doesn't have as many fans and does not take in as much money as the NBA, but she doesn't like how underpaid female professional athletes are. She also does not like that they have to go overseas in the winter to play to make more money.

The Big Lebowski What GIF by MOODMAN

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Tell ya what, fellas -- fuck off, we the people will stick with what's working, and we'll ignore the advice of people who are lying when they say "I sympathize with the movement, but they're going about it the wrong way."  What they find most wrong about it....is that it's fucking working.

This, this and more of this. It is absolutely working and I am glad that it will leave behind a significant portion of our current population that has intentionally stuck its head in the sand in the fight for equality for all and what that entails. This movement is not mine to define and our resident idiots who want to tell black people how they should go about things have a level of obtuse stupidity that you just cannot ever hope to fix.

Edited by UpperWestside

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2 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

This, this and more of this. It is absolutely working and I am glad that it will leave behind a significant portion of our current population that has intentionally stuck its head in the sand in the fight for equality for all and what that entails. This movement is not mine to define and our resident idiots who want to tell black people how they should go about things have a level of obtuse stupidity that you just cannot ever hope to fix.

Yep.  The approach to this fight needs to be like the WWII island-hopping campaign in the Pacific.  The sole strategic goal is to get to the enemy home islands, and force them to surrender under suitable terms.  A bunch of enemy forces want to dig in on certain islands in-between and fight?  Cool.....we're just going to go around you completely.  Polish your rifles, talk about how badass you are, whatever -- we don't fucking care.  We will take the objectives we need to in order to reach our goal -- we don't give a shit about you in any way.  You are an obstacle, that's it.  You can be either defeated, or circumvented - the end result is the same.  So, we'll just go around you and ignore you.  

Maybe you come out of your cave 30 years later, saying you never surrendered.  Great...IDGAF.  War's over, and we won.

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23 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

These numbers are both surprising and encouraging.

 

That 31 percent that does not believe that deserves to live in a gulag.

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1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Cross posting. My team. In racist Boston. Love it. 

 

That’s beautiful. In Boston of all places! 

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1 minute ago, UpperWestside said:

That’s beautiful. In Boston of all places! 

Now if I can figure out how to make this into my icon.... 

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2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Now if I can figure out how to make this into my icon.... 

Go for it. I love seeing how a message like this can spread even to places you would not quite expect it to. I want to get up there before summer ends. Such a cool city!

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8 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Go for it. I love seeing how a message like this can spread even to places you would not quite expect it to. I want to get up there before summer ends. Such a cool city!

yeah, gonna need IT support for this. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Go for it. I love seeing how a message like this can spread even to places you would not quite expect it to. I want to get up there before summer ends. Such a cool city!

Done. 

 

Edited by InkaUtexas
Got my girlfriend to help me.

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Posted (edited)

Today’s speaker at the vigil and march came from a woman who worked in media relations with the ACLU and Amnesty International for over a decade. She gave us some of the basics of de-escalation training in preparation of Dotard sending his federal goons to NYC and how to always keep our cool because the first targets by law enforcement in a contentious situation are going to be the black and brown people there protesting. That will be a large number of the protesters those idiots will meet face-to-face.

Edited by UpperWestside

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The comments to that Red Sox pic... holy shit Boston get your people under control lol

I wrote to this on the Sox thread. So glad my mother got the hell out of there. Love the team, love the city, hate the people, including most of my relatives. My cousins did not speak to me for 20 years since my wife (ex) is Latina. Neither of my grandparents were like that and Mom spent her entire career working in the developing world. But damn the average Anglo Bostonian is a beating. 

Edited by InkaUtexas
Wrote was Latina. Still my ex, but I guess she is still Latina.

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On 7/23/2020 at 8:23 PM, bad_teammate said:

The comments to that Red Sox pic... holy shit Boston get your people under control lol

I kinda shudder to think what has been left in the comments. 

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President of Portland's NAACP: White people are making the protests about white people.

 

Early in his activism, Malcolm X was asked by a young white woman what she could do to help the cause of civil rights. He famously replied, “Nothing.” Years later, he regretted dismissing her so abruptly, because he came to believe there was much she could do to advance the cause of justice for black people in the United States. But I am quite certain that striking yoga poses nude on the streets of Portland, Ore., was not on his list of actionable items.

Images of “Naked Athena,” as the protester has been labeled, have gone viral, her unclothed confrontation with police earning her accolades as a brave ally of the cause. But I see something else: a beneficiary of white privilege dancing vainly on a stage that was originally created to raise up the voices of my oppressed brothers and sisters. In this, she is not alone. As the demonstrations continue every night in Portland, many people with their own agendas are co-opting, and distracting attention from, what should be our central concern: the Black Lives Matter movement.

The protests that have gone on for weeks in Portland and around the country had a very specific origin. The killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis prompted a nationwide reckoning with the original and savage crime of slavery our country committed against African Americans. This crime has been reverberating through every generation in this country, black and white, for 401 years. That monstrous crime has finally caught up with us as a nation. I do not believe it is a time for spectacle.

Unfortunately, “spectacle” is now the best way to describe Portland’s protests. Vandalizing government buildings and hurling projectiles at law enforcement draw attention — but how do these actions stop police from killing black people? What are antifa and other leftist agitators achieving for the cause of black equality? The “Wall of Moms,” while perhaps well-intentioned, ends up redirecting attention away from the urgent issue of murdered black bodies. This might ease the consciences of white, affluent women who have previously been silent in the face of black oppression, but it’s fair to ask: Are they really furthering the cause of justice, or is this another example of white co-optation?

There is more at stake here than who appears most often on nightly TV broadcasts. Everyone seeking to advance justice in Portland faces great danger. Right now, there are unmarked, unnamed federal forces kidnapping our citizens off the streets without justification or authority. The mayor of Portland and governor of Oregon have asked them to leave, to no avail. We know this is a violation of our Constitution, but with President Trump promising only more occupations in more cities, we ignore this risk at our peril.

At their core, the Trump administration’s actions in Portland are a deception. The federal government’s response is no display of strength — rather, it is a deliberate cover for Trump’s weakness. The president and his allies want spectacle, be it a naked yogi or the next shocking display of force. They need to distract the country by engaging our movement in empty battles where they have the advantage.

If we engage them now, we do so on their terms, where they have created the conditions for a war without rules, without accountability and without the protection of our Constitution. This makes me fearful for the safety of everyone demonstrating in Portland. That’s why we need to remember: What is happening in Portland is the fuse of a great, racist backlash that the Trump administration is baiting us to light.

We cannot fall for their deception. We cannot settle for spectacles that endanger us all. This is a moment for serious action — to once again take up the mantle of the civil rights era by summoning the same conviction and determination our forebears did. We welcome our white brothers and sisters in this struggle. In fact, we need them. But I must ask them to remain humbly attuned to the opportunity of this moment — and to reflect on whether any actions they take will truly help establish justice, or whether they are simply for show.

Thursday night, I will lead a rally in downtown Portland to refocus public attention where it belongs: on redeeming a guilty nation. But recent events might be a sign that our work in the streets should be coming to an end.

I am not suggesting retreat. Instead, I am proposing that we take the cause of Black Lives Matter into those places where tear gas and rubber bullets and federal agents cannot find us, and where there is less risk of spectacle distracting from our true aims. In boardrooms, in schools, in city councils, in the halls of justice, in the smoky backrooms of a duplicitous government — that is where we will finally dismantle the gears of the brutal, racist machine that has been terrorizing black Americans and hollowing out the moral character of this nation since its inception.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/23/portlands-protests-were-supposed-be-about-black-lives-now-theyre-white-spectacle/

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

Yeah it's pretty great, honestly, because it's just another very public example of the vapidity and emptiness of American Christendom. It's fun to see play out because whatever beauty, majesty, and mystery that might exist in the Gospels (and I do enjoy them and many of the moral parables) juxtaposes so hard with the pigfucking ignorance and stupidity of evangelical whites that it fascinates me to see.

What a disingenuous way to piss away existence, I don't get it
I'd say you lost your Goddamn minds if y'all possessed one to begin with

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Any protest in most of the US that represents the population is going to naturally be "white spectacle" because, well, America is very white and blacks are only 13% of the population. Whites are 76%.

Oregon is 82% white and 2% black.

Quote

Thursday night, I will lead a rally in downtown Portland to refocus public attention where it belongs: on redeeming a guilty nation. But recent events might be a sign that our work in the streets should be coming to an end.

I'll be interested to see what this is.

In the video posted earlier of the black Portland cop he says that he wants to see a rally where black leaders in the city and police march together... and I'd be very interested to see that, too.

Quote

I am not suggesting retreat. Instead, I am proposing that we take the cause of Black Lives Matter into those places where tear gas and rubber bullets and federal agents cannot find us, and where there is less risk of spectacle distracting from our true aims. In boardrooms, in schools, in city councils, in the halls of justice, in the smoky backrooms of a duplicitous government — that is where we will finally dismantle the gears of the brutal, racist machine that has been terrorizing black Americans and hollowing out the moral character of this nation since its inception.

This... doesn't mean anything. It's as vague and formless as what he's accusing protesters of.

Again, I'd be fascinated to know what this guy is doing.

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7 minutes ago, F250 said:

President of Portland's NAACP: White people are making the protests about white people.

I have no idea what to make of this. 

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4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This... doesn't mean anything. It's as vague and formless as what he's accusing protesters of.

Again, I'd be fascinated to know what this guy is doing.

It sounds like he is suggesting that the protesters back off from the chaos so that the protests can be reframed as a protest against racial injustice. It does seem that the BLM movement has become secondary in Portland.

 

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9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I have no idea what to make of this. 

Well, you are white.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, F250 said:

Well, you are white.

My first reaction was, “how do other Black people feel about this?”  But then I realized there probably isn’t a good sample on the ground in Portland.  

Perhaps the Trump goons snatching people up off the streets changed the dynamics of the protests. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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The Wall of Moms specifically came about because of local BLM leader requests and they are given direction by black leaders, so holding them up as a distraction is just ignorance.

When you have thousands of people who are willing to go get beaten and gassed for two straight months I honestly don't give a shit if they're guilty of theatrics and even tunnel vision. Looking at anonymous federal Gestapo used to brutally defend a broken and corrupt system of exploitation and imprisonment vs some white kids being well-intentioned-but-annoying? Yeah I'm not having a hard time focusing on the real goal here.

If this guy's got the REAL answer, awesome, I'll be excited to see it.

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6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Perhaps the Trump goons snatching people up off the streets changed the dynamics of the protests. 

Yeah, that's what the dude said. Trump is intentionally making this about something other than racial injustice. I believe he used the word deception a couple of times when describing Trump's actions.

I'm not black but I understand what it's like to feel usurped by white voices when it comes to racial inequality. "Hey, we have our own voice, shut the fuck up for a few minutes."

It would probably be a good idea to let the black community move to the forefront in the Portland protests.

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3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The Wall of Moms specifically came about because of local BLM leader requests and they are given direction by black leaders, so holding them up as a distraction is just ignorance.

When you have thousands of people who are willing to go get beaten and gassed for two straight months I honestly don't give a shit if they're guilty of theatrics and even tunnel vision. Looking at anonymous federal Gestapo used to brutally defend a broken and corrupt system of exploitation and imprisonment vs some white kids being well-intentioned-but-annoying? Yeah I'm not having a hard time focusing on the real goal here.

If this guy's got the REAL answer, awesome, I'll be excited to see it.

Who knows, maybe he wants the spotlight and figures he deserves it because of his leadership in the NAACP.

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4 minutes ago, F250 said:

I'm not black but I understand what it's like to feel usurped by white voices when it comes to racial inequality. "Hey, we have our own voice, shut the fuck up for a few minutes."

It would probably be a good idea to let the black community move to the forefront in the Portland protests.

Do we have evidence this isn't happening? Because I see a ton of black speakers at these events (there are livestreams every night). In fact, almost all of the speakers are usually black in what is, again, an almost all-white state.

I would be interested to see what political movements in Oregon have been more inclusive of black voices than this outside of literal all-black organizations like the NAACP.

1 minute ago, F250 said:

Who knows, maybe he wants the spotlight and figures he deserves it because of his leadership in the NAACP.

has he asked to speak at the protests and been told no?

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7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Do we have evidence this isn't happening? Because I see a ton of black speakers at these events (there are livestreams every night). In fact, almost all of the speakers are usually black in what is, again, an almost all-white state.

I would be interested to see what political movements in Oregon have been more inclusive of black voices than this outside of literal all-black organizations like the NAACP.

has he asked to speak at the protests and been told no?

I don't know but for whatever reason he seems to take issue with the current state of the protests. I know that there is occasional infighting between Hispanic organizations, MEChA used to catch flack from other orgs when they did some controversial stuff. "This is not how we do things." Maybe this is similar.

 

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