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2019 Golf Thread of Dominance

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Walked Memorial Park on Tuesday. Love what Doak did bringing this course to life. Use of the barranca, green size and complexes to go with the clearing of unnecessary trees. So much fun for such a flat site. Bravo Houston.

We have great land for courses here in Austin but we refuse to go hire a Doak or Coore because our city leaders suck.

Edited by Goodman

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On 10/24/2019 at 9:12 PM, pops said:

Great week in St George. Green springs, copper rock, sand hollow and a bunch of holes at Bloomington CC. Perfect weather. Fall in the Utah desert is tough to beat. 

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When you have a min, tell us about Sand Hollow. It has a following similar to Sweetens in that part of the country.

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Is this just a tee it up anywhere arrangement ? Sure don't see any tee markers

We were playing the plates (tips) that round. Had to get permission from head pro. We’ve been going out there for the last 15 years so they let us.

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Just finished my fitting at club champion. What a difference shafts make. Ended up with 115g KBS tour V shafts and cobra tec forged heads. We had to adjust my loft 3 degrees because I was peppering my 6 iron out to 210-212. I’m pumped. It was a great session and the guy explained everything very well. Wasn’t going to golf in Cabo in 2 weeks. Now I’m thinking about taking my new weapons. 

@DDD Dad how many guys are you out there with? How do you play that format? Do you choose teams? I’m headed to pinehurst in the spring with a 4some. Might be interesting to switch up our typical stroke play. 

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21 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Just finished my fitting at club champion. What a difference shafts make. Ended up with 115g KBS tour V shafts and cobra tec forged heads. We had to adjust my loft 3 degrees because I was peppering my 6 iron out to 210-212. I’m pumped. It was a great session and the guy explained everything very well. Wasn’t going to golf in Cabo in 2 weeks. Now I’m thinking about taking my new weapons. 

@DDD Dad how many guys are you out there with? How do you play that format? Do you choose teams? I’m headed to pinehurst in the spring with a 4some. Might be interesting to switch up our typical stroke play. 

We’ve done different formats over the years but for the last 7 or 8 it’s been a Ryder Cup format.  Four ball matches over two days (36 holes each day) and then singles over 18 holes the final day. Typically will have two singles matches per player the final day (both players from each team have matches against both of the other team’s players in the foursome).   We also do an individual quota competition on the par 3 course the first day, which followed our round on the tips (which wasn’t part of the team matches).

We have a trophy that gets engraved each year.  Pretty good little tradition.  It’s called the Bandon Shoe and named after a shoe that you can see in the Inn if you’re ever there.

I think I posted the story behind that shoe back on TOS.

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Nice. I need to think of a good 4 man circuit. This year at Erin and whistling we played 3 rounds. Had fourball in each round. winning team took a point. Then we had a point for the low net individual each day. Then another point for the low weekend net. Worked out ok, everyone got to play their ball all weekend. 

Might want to do a quota game next spring since we’re adding a round this year. Also have a par 3 course contest. 

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Nice. I need to think of a good 4 man circuit. This year at Erin and whistling we played 3 rounds. Had fourball in each round. winning team took a point. Then we had a point for the low net individual each day. Then another point for the low weekend net. Worked out ok, everyone got to play their ball all weekend. 
Might want to do a quota game next spring since we’re adding a round this year. Also have a par 3 course contest. 

Forgot to mention. We had 8 this year. Usually we have 12-16.

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Need to start playing again. Just lazy/kid stuff. I havent played in over a year and that's my longest layoff ever. JuCo scholly and can still shoot high 70s but no reason to want to play since my kids love basketball and football so that's all we do. Wish they wanted to play golf. But I do love playing hoops with them, and beating their ass in horse.

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:38 AM, Goodman said:

When you have a min, tell us about Sand Hollow. It has a following similar to Sweetens in that part of the country.

Interesting that you say that.  Sweeten's is kind of weird/cool old school design mecca right now.  Sand Hollow is fun, and the 9 hole links course is really fun, but I don't know that it has that kind of cult following down there.  That being said, if you are planning a golf trip in that part of the country I would say it is a must hit.  It is good desert golf and better than most in St. George.  But I also think Wolf Creek is a dumb course that was built for no purpose other than saying they built it, so what do I know?

Side note, entrada just approved a huge redesign by McKlay-Kidd.  Which is great because Miller built a stupid course on one of the best pieces of land in the desert southwest.  Also, a new course is going in next to entrada to be designed by Weiskopf.  good things happening down there.  I'm headed down this weekend for my last golf of the year.  

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Was able to get out for 9 with my new clubs.  Was a little worried about yardage spacing because I hadn't played them yet.  Shot a 42 with 13 putts and 2 double bogeys.  I'm hitting the ball a lot longer, but the wedges are a game changer.  Solid grooves and confidence.  I had a nice 185 yard 7-iron out of some rough.  I got after that one a little but I also hit is off the inside of the club face. The forgiveness on these forged clubs is like nothing I've experienced, and when you hit it pure it just feels so amazing.

Going to get the driver lessons going so I can round out my game and my bag for 2020.

Aside from that, I've got myself scheduled to spend the first 2 weeks of February in Scottsdale.  I'm thinking about snagging a troon card and playing 7-10 rounds while I'm out there.  Anyone have any experience with that?

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Finally getting to posting these photos from earlier in the fall. 
 

The old course at Bedford springs. Original design in 1895. Redesigned by Tillinghast as his first course design in the US after spending time with old Tom Morris at St. Andrews. Redesigned again by Donald Ross. Current layout has 7 holes from Tillinghast, 7 holes from Donald Ross, and 4 of the original holes. 
 

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This mound is about 3 feet tall. Pulled a 3 wood left on a second shot on a long par 5 and thankfully came up short of it. 
 

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This was Tillinghast’s first of what he came to call a Tiny Tim hole. In his words: 

Previously we discussed the long one shotters of our courses...  Now let's turn to the other extreme and regard the very short ones -- the Tiny Tims as I choose to call them.  How short may these be?  ...I would say that from115 to 125 yards the short pitch hole would be satisfactory -- provided it was guarded impressively.  And this provision is of utmost importance. Unless such a green stands forth impressively, despite its Lilliputian proportions, it is utterly wasted.  It should be a little David challenging the Goliaths of golf.



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His sketch for the the hole in his book where he wrote that quote. 
 

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closeup of his “alps” left of the green. 
 

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Merry Christmas to me. Bought these used in like new condition. Box had been opened but all 8 irons were still in there original packaging. 

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2 hours ago, heso said:

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Merry Christmas to me. Bought these used in like new condition. Box had been opened but all 8 irons were still in there original packaging. 

In my unqualified opinion, the 718 AP 1/2/3 are significantly better clubs than the T100/200/300’s. 

I played the both the 718 AP2 and AP3’s. But I always had the AP1 4 and 5 iron in the bag. Those hollow bodies are like hitting rocket launchers.

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I got my youngest fitted for a set of irons as his graduation gift last month, and the TaylorMade M6 blew the Titleists away. So at least for him they were a better option.

Sorry@longhorn10

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The Srixons are a great set. I haven’t played a TM club since the original burner bubble driver. I’m sure they make awesome irons but they’ve never fit my eye for some reason.

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they still make a great driver and damn solid fairway wood, matching up the right shaft is everything here

i really just want to try something different, itll probably be the srxions with the nippon steel shafts 

Edited by tx 3 putt

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alright fellow golf nuts, Club Champion is offering up some good deals on club fittings.   50% off full bag fittings and 33% off others.  I just booked one in Austin for an iron fitting.  

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Effective 1/1/2020 the USGA will adopt the World Handicap System.  A net double bogey will be the max score for handicap purposes.  So single digit handicaps now will be able to take a 7 on some par 4's or perhaps an 8 on a very difficult par 5.  Middle teen handicaps will not be able to take a 7 on any par 3 and may be limited to a 5 depending on the hole, and they may be limited to a 6 on some par 4's, but they can take an 8 (versus a 7 now) on a difficult par 5.  And the best 8 of your last 20 rounds will be used to compute your index.  I'm an 11 index and it likely will lower my handicap a point or two.

edit:  here's a link: https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping.html

Edited by HouTex

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So if you're keeping track of your index, which I'd never do, are you playing by the actual rules? If you hit it OB, are you going back to the tee to hit your third shot? 

Everyone I play with treats OB or lost balls like hitting it into a water hazard. Drop and play three from there. 

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I don’t like it. It seems that the only purpose is to make a very low percentage of golfers (mid handicappers that actually keep a legit handicap) feel better about their handicap number without actually getting any better at golf. It’s very easy for a 15 handicap to make triple bogey. Turning those triples or quads into doubles isn’t going to make a difference in pace of play. They are already picking up their 6 footer for +3 and they are still going to play the hole to that point regardless of what it means for their score. 

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So if you're keeping track of your index, which I'd never do, are you playing by the actual rules? If you hit it OB, are you going back to the tee to hit your third shot? 

 

Everyone I play with treats OB or lost balls like hitting it into a water hazard. Drop and play three from there. 

 

You should never be going back to the tee. When in doubt, you should be hitting provisionals off the tee (they’re free if you don’t need them).

 

If you’re not playing by the rules, there’s no reason to keep your handicap, as it’s illegitimate and you’re cheating if you use it in a tourney

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1 hour ago, StruggleBus said:

So if you're keeping track of your index, which I'd never do, are you playing by the actual rules? If you hit it OB, are you going back to the tee to hit your third shot? 

Everyone I play with treats OB or lost balls like hitting it into a water hazard. Drop and play three from there. 

You could play a provisional before leaving the box, so as not to have to go back to the tee if you end up incurring a stroke+distance penalty. Or you could play it under the new rule where you take a drop in the fairway adjacent to where it went OB, and then play your fourth from there (thus approximating a provisional that reached the fairway).

If you're going to count your strokes, much less post a score for your handicap, then one should play by the "actual rules."

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It seems that the only purpose is to make a very low percentage of golfers (mid handicappers that actually keep a legit handicap) feel better about their handicap number without actually getting any better at golf.


That’s obviously not the purpose. It makes the game MORE difficult for them when they play in tourneys vs better players.

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Or you could play it under the new rule where you take a drop in the fairway adjacent to where it went OB, and then play your fourth from there (thus approximating a provisional that reached the fairway).



I believe this is a local rule rather than a universal one, fwiw

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1 hour ago, heso said:

I don’t like it. It seems that the only purpose is to make a very low percentage of golfers (mid handicappers that actually keep a legit handicap) feel better about their handicap number without actually getting any better at golf. It’s very easy for a 15 handicap to make triple bogey. Turning those triples or quads into doubles isn’t going to make a difference in pace of play. They are already picking up their 6 footer for +3 and they are still going to play the hole to that point regardless of what it means for their score. 

You're not supposed to actually pick the ball up when you're out on the course. The "max score" is just for handicapping purposes. If you're a 12 and I am a 6, and we want to play a round for a dollar a stroke, you're going to get 6 shots. At that point, the handicapping rules are no longer relevant. You're going to have to hole out on every hole. None of this "just give me a double" shenanigans. On Tuesday I shot 81, but since I had two triples, the ESC score I posted was a 79. I'm not walking around saying I broke 80.

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7 hours ago, Lurch said:

 

You should never be going back to the tee. When in doubt, you should be hitting provisionals off the tee (they’re free if you don’t need them).

 

If you’re not playing by the rules, there’s no reason to keep your handicap, as it’s illegitimate and you’re cheating if you use it in a tourney

While technically true, if you aren’t playing stroke and distance on OB or lost balls, you are giving yourself a lower handicap than what you should, so I wouldn’t view that as cheating in a tourney. It’s a vanity handicap, the exact opposite of sandbagging. 
 

Also, when I’m playing with friends and I have a lost ball or an OB that I didn’t hit a provisional for (due to a miscalculation of where the ball went), I’m certainly not headed back to the tee to re-tee (unless big money involved and my ball may count). 

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I never knew this thread existed, or even this hobbies board, until searching tonight.

I’m not sure if this should go here or “Can you help me...”

I’ve been playing with i3 blades for the past 12 years and am ready to upgrade. I’m eyeballing some Ping G700 hollows.

Any recs our wisdom to impart On that model or hollows in general before I pull the trigger? I’m not 100% stuck on Ping, but I’ve played them for a long time and really like them.

Thanks!

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I never knew this thread existed, or even this hobbies board, until searching tonight.
I’m not sure if this should go here or “Can you help me...”
I’ve been playing with i3 blades for the past 12 years and am ready to upgrade. I’m eyeballing some Ping G700 hollows.
Any recs our wisdom to impart On that model or hollows in general before I pull the trigger? I’m not 100% stuck on Ping, but I’ve played them for a long time and really like them.
Thanks!

Get fitted.

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1 hour ago, Orange&White said:

 

Any recs our wisdom to impart On that model or hollows in general before I pull the trigger? I’m not 100% stuck on Ping, but I’ve played them for a long time and really like them.

Thanks!

Get something with a hotter face 

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Get fitted.


1000x this. Club Champion while they’re discounted. Find out what performs best for your particular swing. And, it’s fun.

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1 hour ago, Lurch said:

 


1000x this. Club Champion while they’re discounted. Find out what performs best for your particular swing. And, it’s fun.

 

As noted above, I got my youngest (22) fitted for a set of irons recently, his first real set of clubs (not hand-me-downs).  He's a bogey + golfer still learning to play, but the fitting revealed some big surprises.  Ultimately he picked up at least 15-20 yards per club and considerable improvement on consistency, ball flight, etc., by virtue of trying out several different club makers and styles.

Taylormade M6 worked best for him over all of the new Titleists, Pings, and Mizunos.

We were fortunate to have the fitting be complimentary at my club, but it's worth paying for if that's not an option.

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23 hours ago, Lurch said:

 


I believe this is a local rule rather than a universal one, fwiw

 

Correct, the rule change allowed clubs to adopt a local rule for non-tournament play.  I suspect pretty much all clubs adopted the local rule.  My club adopted it.  It does save time by essentially giving the player a pretty good provisional hitting their 4th shot from the fairway.

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23 hours ago, Lurch said:

 


That’s obviously not the purpose. It makes the game MORE difficult for them when they play in tourneys vs better players.

 

This.  My understanding is that the USGA determined that middle teen handicaps were winning a disproportionate number of net play events against single digit handicaps.  That's generally been true in my experience, but not because of the sandbagger effect (with a couple of exceptions), but because of vanity handicaps.  I know many guys who simply don't turn in their high scores or will take a lower score than allowed on a given hole to keep their handicap down so they can play with their buds or they don't like the flight make-up of the higher handicaps in flighted events.  They don't mind losing a little money in their regular weekend game.  They get killed in net events and many of them know they don't have a chance so they don't even compete.  I've been amazed at how many guys are in this category.

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51 minutes ago, HouTex said:

This.  My understanding is that the USGA determined that middle teen handicaps were winning a disproportionate number of net play events against single digit handicaps.  That's generally been true in my experience, but not because of the sandbagger effect (with a couple of exceptions), but because of vanity handicaps.  I know many guys who simply don't turn in their high scores or will take a lower score than allowed on a given hole to keep their handicap down so they can play with their buds or they don't like the flight make-up of the higher handicaps in flighted events.  They don't mind losing a little money in their regular weekend game.  They get killed in net events and many of them know they don't have a chance so they don't even compete.  I've been amazed at how many guys are in this category.

There definitely are vanity handicappers out there, but there are other reasons why middle teen handicappers can have an advantage in net events (I'm a single digit).  My experience with single digit handicappers is that they are generally pretty consistent, that is their handicap doesn't usually vary much from month to month, and their games also generally are more consistent.  Middle teen handicappers (again generalizing) often will have a big delta in their games.  That is to say, they can score a big number on a hole, but then they also will have the ability to make a birdie as often as a triple bogey.  Also, they can tend to have larger swings in their indexes over the course of the year.

Until now, single digit handicappers typically will max out at double bogey, which will tend to keep them as single digits; whereas teen handicappers can take up to a 7 on a par 3.  I think the new rules will help address both of these points (inasmuch as single digit handicappers will be able to take a triple on as many as 9 holes (if they're a 9)), presumably raising their indexes, while teen handicappers likely won't see an opportunity to post a higher score as often (if they previously could take a 7 it reduces what they can post on an easy par 3, e.g.).  

In my usual weekend game this might end up slowing play; currently most players pick up if they can't make bogey (for ESC double is max for most in my games), so it could add an additional stroke attempt several times per round.  However, because most of the time we play a quota game (no points for double or worse) it might just cause people's handicaps to stay artificially low if they continue to pick up.

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This.  My understanding is that the USGA determined that middle teen handicaps were winning a disproportionate number of net play events against single digit handicaps.  That's generally been true in my experience, but not because of the sandbagger effect (with a couple of exceptions), but because of vanity handicaps.  I know many guys who simply don't turn in their high scores or will take a lower score than allowed on a given hole to keep their handicap down so they can play with their buds or they don't like the flight make-up of the higher handicaps in flighted events.  They don't mind losing a little money in their regular weekend game.  They get killed in net events and many of them know they don't have a chance so they don't even compete.  I've been amazed at how many guys are in this category.


I did not know this was the case.

There definitely are vanity handicappers out there, but there are other reasons why middle teen handicappers can have an advantage in net events (I'm a single digit).  My experience with single digit handicappers is that they are generally pretty consistent, that is their handicap doesn't usually vary much from month to month, and their games also generally are more consistent.  Middle teen handicappers (again generalizing) often will have a big delta in their games.  That is to say, they can score a big number on a hole, but then they also will have the ability to make a birdie as often as a triple bogey.  Also, they can tend to have larger swings in their indexes over the course of the year.



That would seem to be at least somewhat accurate in regards to my game. I finished last season as a 16.

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Not as likely to make birdie as triple, but I miss a lot of birdie putts on par 5s.

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There definitely are vanity handicappers out there, but there are other reasons why middle teen handicappers can have an advantage in net events (I'm a single digit).  My experience with single digit handicappers is that they are generally pretty consistent, that is their handicap doesn't usually vary much from month to month, and their games also generally are more consistent.  Middle teen handicappers (again generalizing) often will have a big delta in their games.  That is to say, they can score a big number on a hole, but then they also will have the ability to make a birdie as often as a triple bogey.  Also, they can tend to have larger swings in their indexes over the course of the year.
Until now, single digit handicappers typically will max out at double bogey, which will tend to keep them as single digits; whereas teen handicappers can take up to a 7 on a par 3.  I think the new rules will help address both of these points (inasmuch as single digit handicappers will be able to take a triple on as many as 9 holes (if they're a 9)), presumably raising their indexes, while teen handicappers likely won't see an opportunity to post a higher score as often (if they previously could take a 7 it reduces what they can post on an easy par 3, e.g.).  
In my usual weekend game this might end up slowing play; currently most players pick up if they can't make bogey (for ESC double is max for most in my games), so it could add an additional stroke attempt several times per round.  However, because most of the time we play a quota game (no points for double or worse) it might just cause people's handicaps to stay artificially low if they continue to pick up.

I agree with you. I’m an 11 index and down from a 15 index from a few years ago. I have a high beta but it’s getting better. I have done very well in net match play events. I’ll lose a few holes badly but I’m competitive in most holes.

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14 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Who wants to start the 2020 thread?

I thought about it, but didn’t think my handicap gave me enough cred. 

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2 minutes ago, heso said:

I thought about it, but didn’t think my handicap gave me enough cred. 

Sir, this is Surly Horns.  There is no such thing as enough cred for any of us.

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