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Arch Manning: Doing his best JAG impression to fool scouts


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Posted
41 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Arch just doesn't see the field at all, not sure if that can ever change. He's essentially a one read QB three years into the system.

That's the thing that sticks with (as well as perplexes) me the most about him rn. Three years in and he doesn't see the field and his mechanics are terrible. Maybe he puts it together, maybe he doesn't, but it's not looking good. Usually you see flashes if the guy under center has that "it" factor by now. If he were a true freshman or even a RS freshman I'd understand but I expect more out of a QB that has had three years to sit back and learn the system. One thing I will say about him is that he'll stick in there and take a shot to get the ball off, need to be more accurate. 

Posted

Game does need to slow down for Arch.  And I believe in the long run he’ll be fine. He had some great throws yesterday.  On his first int mosely was being held by the db.   The second one we were running out of time and we had to take a risk.  
 

 

so with that being said:

 

 

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

You run the play the way Sark designs it. If the 1st read is a 12-20 yard route, that is the read. You are asking Arch to look to his first read, evade pressure, and hit his 4th read on the backside on the play inside of 3 seconds. It’s a big ask.. 

Arch had his issues, but this game was about blocking and Sark (I said blocking, because RBs didn’t have a great day in pass pro either)

What? No good QB goes through all his progressions on every play. None. That's ridiculous to even say that. Good QBs know the highest probabilities based on the coverage. Then you adjust once you take the snap. You don't have 4 seconds every play to go through reads. As soon as you snap the ball and the coverage starts rolling, you should know where to go with the football. Getting the ball out quick is a huge part of the job. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Arch had his issues, but this game was about blocking and Sark (I said blocking, because RBs didn’t have a great day in pass pro either)

Terrible OL blocking + Sark not adjusting playcalls to pressure.  Pass routes too long developing, and no intermediate routes or checkdowns --  Sark called a terrible game with Arch under so much pressure and no run game.  

Arch has to learn to not take sacks by holding the ball too long. 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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Posted
15 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Game does need to slow down for Arch.  And I believe in the long run he’ll be fine. He had some great throws yesterday.  On his first int mosely was being held by the db.   The second one we were running out of time and we had to take a risk.  
 

 

so with that being said:

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.c32d845c16fd666666fb60f4d54403f5.png

serious question, why do you believe in the long run he will be fine? 

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

What? No good QB goes through all his progressions on every play. None. That's ridiculous to even say that. Good QBs know the highest probabilities based on the coverage. Then you adjust once you take the snap. You don't have 4 seconds every play to go through reads. As soon as you snap the ball and the coverage starts rolling, you should know where to go with the football. Getting the ball out quick is a huge part of the job. 

Just stop. You would have showed a clip of the deep route open for a TD, if Arch simply went straight to his check down. You are the guy on the couch that yells hit the check dow, when the blitz hits home. Yells “Charlie Checkdown, hit the deep play the blitz was picked up”

Posted
13 minutes ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

serious question, why do you believe in the long run he will be fine? 

Seen a ton of flashes from Arch. I actually feel better about him after this game. He showed play making. Babers had him at 150 yards of offense on plays from Arch scrambling. Arch showed he is tough. He took shot after shot. He didn’t turtle or look straight to his check down. Toughest I have seen a QB play at Texas, since Elhinger 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Again, count one thousands. If you can get to three there was plenty of time. All last season we had this same shit going on from the exact same position but it was the QB's fault. Has to recognize you guys said. Now all the sudden the QB has no time? Come on Codaxx. Not only does he not get it out the first time, but he steps past the pass rush and still doesn't see it. 

We absolutely did not have this level oline play other than basically one game.

Posted
33 minutes ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

serious question, why do you believe in the long run he will be fine? 

I think it's part of our collective "hope" because so and so had a bad season ans then the next year they exploded onto the scene. It's not really his fault, we all do this. The 2018 Joe Burrow to 2019 Joe Burrow comparisons get tossed around and it's a feeding frenzy for hope. 
 

My hope is the recruits don't bail. We need Derek Cooper in the worst way, and that D-line haul, especially if we can back into a Dre Quinn commitment. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, William Bludworth said:

I think it's part of our collective "hope" because so and so had a bad season ans then the next year they exploded onto the scene. It's not really his fault, we all do this. The 2018 Joe Burrow to 2019 Joe Burrow comparisons get tossed around and it's a feeding frenzy for hope. 
 

My hope is the recruits don't bail. We need Derek Cooper in the worst way, and that D-line haul, especially if we can back into a Dre Quinn commitment. 

Mostnworried about Dia Bell

Posted
2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

@David Dennison said it best yesterday, Sark ain’t benching his name brand hand picked QB. 

I can see why the elegant articulation caught your eye. It's not the kind of phrase one ever sees outside of an English literature class.

Sadly, it has no bearing on what I wrote.

Posted

Arch really, really needs to work on touch and spin, as well as distance to the intended receiver. 

Wingo needs to use the JUGS machine until he can't feel his hands every single day for a minimum of an hour. That's how you get better. Do the little things. Everything. Even on your day off. Same for RB's. I'll try and find the video of Julio Jones/Odell Beckham Jr doing it upside down (not comparing the two, just saying there's a difference in those who want it and use strong work erhic- Jeremiah Smith/Ryan Williams and those who show up to practice - Wingo). 

Sorry, I looked and for the videos but can't find them. I remember the Jones one vividly, but can't find it. But looking him up his strong work ethic and "want it" are off the charts. Same with ODJ/Hopkins/Justin Jefferson. 

11 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Mostnworried about Dia Bell

Nah, man. I think he's locked in for good. No worries there on my part. 

Posted
50 minutes ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

serious question, why do you believe in the long run he will be fine? 

I think he’s improving at least. One series vs Georgia last year, Ohio state and Florida are the only teams he’s played with defenses worth a shit. Don’t get me wrong, Saturday wasn’t great but it was better than the previous two. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Should be noted this game plan from Sark was up there with the @ Ok State game plan where Sark had Quinn throwing deep in high winds to the tune of something like 19-44 

I'm not a great analyst of things such as game plan. I do feel like we have many plays that would work well with a competent throw or, gasp, reception that led the receiver rather than require breaking stride to grab at a poorly place pass.

To me, that indicates that the plan (at least on those plays) was sound. Execution did not require a high level of skill, but execution is the point of failure. I've felt that way for two seasons now. Ewers could not hit a set up long pass (low percentage, admittedly) but was reliable in the shorter game to release quickly and accurately. That and an ol that could block for runners who could exploit openings was success.

None of the execution works this year, it seems. I don't think that's a failure of offensive game plan so much as adequate coaching/recruiting to ensure success.

Posted
Just now, scramblyn said:

I think he’s improving at least. One series vs Georgia last year, Ohio state and Florida are the only teams he’s played with defenses worth a shit. Don’t get me wrong, Saturday wasn’t great but it was better than the previous two. 

He has to stop throwing into triple coverage. We don't have the WR's that have the work ethic to get stronger hands to bully the DBs and take it away from them. Wingo may look the part, but his hands are soft af. He'll make two catches on the ground, but if thrown deep into coverage he's either lost or he bumbles the ball. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, William Bludworth said:

He has to stop throwing into triple coverage. We don't have the WR's that have the work ethic to get stronger hands to bully the DBs and take it away from them. Wingo may look the part, but his hands are soft af. He'll make two catches on the ground, but if thrown deep into coverage he's either lost or he bumbles the ball. 

Wingo for another thread, arch needs to do a lot of things but in the limited sample set I mentioned he is improving.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm not a great analyst of things such as game plan. I do feel like we have many plays that would work well with a competent throw or, gasp, reception that led the receiver rather than require breaking stride to grab at a poorly place pass.

To me, that indicates that the plan (at least on those plays) was sound. Execution did not require a high level of skill, but execution is the point of failure. I've felt that way for two seasons now. Ewers could not hit a set up long pass (low percentage, admittedly) but was reliable in the shorter game to release quickly and accurately. That and an ol that could block for runners who could exploit openings was success.

None of the execution works this year, it seems. I don't think that's a failure of offensive game plan so much as adequate coaching/recruiting to ensure success.

I would counter that by around mid-2Q change in the game plan was in order. You couldn’t run the ball or hold up in pass pro. That was time to look to more of the short game. Having guys open on deeper routes sounds awesome, but you need to have a pocket to complete them 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
1 minute ago, William Bludworth said:

Cool. We'll agree then. 

At this point we we gotta hope arch is like Colt McCoy and is going to be great his junior and senior year. And thank god for the nil hopefully sark will go get some god damned OLs.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I would counter that by around mid-2Q change in the game plan was in order. You couldn’t run the ball or hold up in pass pro. That was time to look to more of the short game. Having guys open on deeper routes sounds awesome, but you need to have a pocket to complete them 

I guess that I felt there were short receivers available, but maybe you are speaking of an overall shift in strategy. I agree that a concentration on the short game would be best. I still wonder about our execution of it from the current QB.

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Posted
1 minute ago, scramblyn said:

At this point we we gotta hope arch is like Colt McCoy and is going to be great his junior and senior year. And thank god for the nil hopefully sark will go get some god damned OLs.

Man, we gotta stop with these 3* dudes that Flood "evaluates" and do better at getting 4-5* kids. He's lazy af, and he's so bad. Even if we had a line-up of all 5* linemen, somehow, some way he would fail at his job. We have to replace him. He has to go. We can get all of the top linemen we want and Flood will just Flood it up. 

We were supposed to have a Moore award group last year, and we saw what happened against UGA twice, even though the second game went to OT. 

But I am absolutely in agreement that we need to allocate more funds for better OL. Because what we have on the roster is horrendous. Just go take a gander. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Have you seen the average depth of Target? Did you see the game plan? You would have thought by mid 2Q, Sark would have went to a quick passing game. He did not. I would expect him to be higher in this game. That whole avoiding rushers tends to make the ball come out slower 

Hard to make offensive adjustments when you’re coaching the entire team

Posted
33 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

We absolutely did not have this level oline play other than basically one game.

We looked like this vs Ohio State, and both Georgia games last year. This is the first time we haven't been able to pass pro this year. 

Posted
1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

I guess that I felt there were short receivers available, but maybe you are speaking of an overall shift in strategy. I agree that a concentration on the short game would be best. I still wonder about our execution of it from the current QB.

Arch has his issues. He looks like a year 1 guy. He is very up and down. Big issue is a poor OL. Pass pro is sketchy and run game is weak. That doesn’t help a QB. Sark is going to have to get the screen game (hoping to see more with Mosley back) or short passing game going. Calling deeper plays and having an outlet isn’t the same. You have to go through your progressions. That first read takes longer. Need to have more 1st reads being in the short game (I.e. slant) 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, B00M said:

Hard to make offensive adjustments when you’re coaching the entire team

It been an issue for a while. Sark is usually pretty good at making a game plan. His ability to make adjustments does not match his offensive reputation 

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Posted

This has seemed obvious for weeks, yet we lead P4 in air yards per attempt?!

Give him the QE offense and let’s see what he does.

It’s the same fucking offense (without the RPO stuff that Arch can’t do yet). The difference is that Quinn would pass off on the first and second reads if they didn’t look ideal…quickly. In fact, a big critical of him was that he was “panicking” but just ripping all the way to a “give up” check down play way too quickly and way too often. I think that critique was somewhat valid at times. It’s just now we have the opposite of that/
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Posted
7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

We looked like this vs Ohio State, and both Georgia games last year. This is the first time we haven't been able to pass pro this year. 

We gave up 28 pressures to Georgia last year. We gave up 7 more than that yesterday. We have had issues with pass pro all year other than game 1. What are you talking about?

Posted
39 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Mostnworried about Dia Bell

 

I wouldn’t expect much from Dia Bell unless he sticks around in college for awhile.

Kid will enter college having not played much ball since his sophomore year of high school.

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, PplDontForget said:

 

I wouldn’t expect much from Dia Bell unless he sticks around in college for awhile.

Kid will enter college having not played much ball since his sophomore year of high school.

 

Yea.  Don’t want to be Debbie Downer but this.   I guess it’ll be Lacey for two years

Posted

And frankly the last few national championship games have been littered with guys (Penix, Howard, Leonard)  who played somewhere else first, took the knocks, got experience and then stepped into teams flush with talent and took them to the end.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FOXHOUND said:

That's the thing that sticks with (as well as perplexes) me the most about him rn. Three years in and he doesn't see the field and his mechanics are terrible. Maybe he puts it together, maybe he doesn't, but it's not looking good. Usually you see flashes if the guy under center has that "it" factor by now. If he were a true freshman or even a RS freshman I'd understand but I expect more out of a QB that has had three years to sit back and learn the system. One thing I will say about him is that he'll stick in there and take a shot to get the ball off, need to be more accurate. 

He showed it last year against similar competition that he faced in the 3 scrimmage games, but maybe the position of QB1 is just too much for him to handle. That's part of the problem though, film shows wide open WRs running across his face but he refuses to throw the ball waiting for the deep ball. He's really struggling reading defenses and Sarkisian's scheme is too hard for QBs that can't read defenses or see the field.

Edited by HtownHorn
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Arch has his issues. He looks like a year 1 guy. He is very up and down. Big issue is a poor OL. Pass pro is sketchy and run game is weak. That doesn’t help a QB. Sark is going to have to get the screen game (hoping to see more with Mosley back) or short passing game going. Calling deeper plays and having an outlet isn’t the same. You have to go through your progressions. That first read takes longer. Need to have more 1st reads being in the short game (I.e. slant) 

Yeah, he's not ready to put the whole offense on his shoulders (not sure if he ever will be) and isn't getting any help from the OL running game to set him up ahead of the chains. I am guessing next Saturday is going to be game that is won or lost by how well the defense plays, because this offense against that OU front 7 is the biggest mismatch of the game.

Edited by HtownHorn
Posted
46 minutes ago, William Bludworth said:

He has to stop throwing into triple coverage. We don't have the WR's that have the work ethic to get stronger hands to bully the DBs and take it away from them. Wingo may look the part, but his hands are soft af. He'll make two catches on the ground, but if thrown deep into coverage he's either lost or he bumbles the ball. 

lulz.  So he needs to be incredible AND avoid the stupid failures of his teammates?  How about we blame his teammates for not being able to catch the fucking football?  Good  lord.

Posted
6 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Yeah, he's not ready to put the whole offense on his shoulders (not sure if he ever will be) and isn't getting any help from the OL running game to set him up ahead of the chains. I am guessing next Saturday is going to be game that is won or lost by how well the defense plays, because this offense against that OU front 7 is the biggest mismatch of the game.

It’s a shame because based on how many times per game he loosens those shoulders up, I think he can handle it. 

Posted
34 minutes ago, scottsins said:


It’s the same fucking offense (without the RPO stuff that Arch can’t do yet). The difference is that Quinn would pass off on the first and second reads if they didn’t look ideal…quickly. In fact, a big critical of him was that he was “panicking” but just ripping all the way to a “give up” check down play way too quickly and way too often. I think that critique was somewhat valid at times. It’s just now we have the opposite of that/

Exactly. Its not rocket science. 

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

lulz.  So he needs to be incredible AND avoid the stupid failures of his teammates?  How about we blame his teammates for not being able to catch the fucking football?  Good  lord.

Agreed. I've said it at least 3-4 times that Wingo/Moore/Lockett/Ffrench/McCutcheon/Livingstone/Washington/Winstlon/Endries needs to use the JUGS machine every day for at least an hour to build their hand strength so he can bully the DBs and take it from them just like Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams, who use it daily. He doesn't put in the work they do, which is why they're hit or miss. Their hands are soft af. They have to do this on their days off. 

RBs need to be out there with Arch learning the plays by not just looking at thr sheet, but memorizing them by going through the plays over and over again on their days off and after class. 

All three of those groups need to do this every single day. After school/homework, days off, whatever. They all need to be linear instead of independent. 

This isn't all Arch. All of these guys get paid, and if they're getting paid they need to work as hard as Julio Jojes/ODJ/Hopkins/Justin Jefferson to maximize their talent and skill. 

Just like the RBs need to do the same like Bijan/Saquon/Jean try.Henry to get better footwork, cutting ability, speed, etc. 

This isn't rocket science. It's obvious they aren't working together unless it's at practice. 

Edited by William Bludworth
Posted
3 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Arch just doesn't see the field at all, not sure if that can ever change. He's essentially a one read QB three years into the system.

But…..You have to admit he was a great 7on7 Qb with everyone in shorts.

Posted
3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

You know you are my boy Hobbes but come on. You are one of the smarter guys on the board. We went from being last in air yards to first. So common sense would say the guy throwing the short routes isn't going to see as much pressure and the guy holding the ball. However, since all the back and forth between all of us is he said/he said, lets take a look at the video. 

2nd and 6 here. As a QB it is your responsibility to see the blitz and adjust accordingly. Florida brings 5 so you have to understand that the ball has to come out. Your TE releases and has a good step on the LB. If you put in on him he has a good chance of picking up the first or at least getting you to a 3rd and 1 or 2. However, you hold the ball for 3 one thousand. Then when you take off you draw the defender closest to the LB. If you dump it off he runs for 20+. 

 

 

 

2nd and 10 here. Florida dials up a simulated pressure where they drop out the Boundary DE and bring the field side OLB. That should cue Arch that the RB in the flat is an attractive target. If he lets it go the back gets 5 yards, or more if he can make the DB miss. Instead Arch holds it and takes an unecessary hit delivering it to the TE crosser, who gets folded as soon as he catches it. 

 

 

 

 

 

I tried to copy this last clip. That should go into the OL thread. We have some bad pass protections (schematically). Florida out-coached Flood bad on this play. They get a DE on Wisner 1 on 1. Best part is there are 2 OL blocking nobody and trying to look busy by putting their arms out. Go find some work. Keep 6 in to block 4 and Florida gets a DE on a RB 1 on 1, that should not happen 

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