Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

[Dropout 355]

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Calihorn said:

Fiscal conservatism is dead, get used to it.

Sure I will as soon as Bernie divulges the costs for his free for all plans.. Let's stay focussed here....  If the concept was dead he'd have no problem telling everyone what it will cost.

[Dropout 355]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Sure I will as soon as Bernie divulges the costs for his free for all plans.. Let's stay focussed here....  If the concept was dead he'd have no problem telling everyone what it will cost.

It is dead. So we don’t give a fuck about your shit framing. Your way of thinking is done. Adapt or don’t idgaf.

[Zonahorn 8072]

1 minute ago, Dropout said:

It is dead. So we don’t give a fuck about your shit framing. Your way of thinking is done. Adapt or don’t idgaf.

Este, we can find barrels of money for whatever the military needs, god help us if we try to help poor people though.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Dropout said:

It is dead. So we don’t give a fuck about your shit framing. Your way of thinking is done. Adapt or don’t idgaf.

We don't ?  Well Bernie must feel a lot of people do or he wouldn't worry about divulging the costs of his programs. You can say not doesn't matter all you want, his lack of comment on the topic says otherwise.  but hey you keep fingers in your ears.

[Dropout 355]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

We don't ?  Well Bernie must feel a lot of people do or he wouldn't worry about divulging the costs of his programs. You can say not doesn't matter all you want, his lack of comment on the topic says otherwise.  but hey you keep fingers in your ears.

A good leader adequately silences critics with actual thought. I know it’s been awhile for you. Not a lack of comment guy.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/

 

[Kermit 3126]

“How much is this shit gonna cost?” That’s a question I haven’t heard in a long time. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Dropout said:

A good leader adequately silences critics with actual thought. I know it’s been awhile for you. Not a lack of comment guy.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/

 

His comments yesterday contradict that report. He flat out would not say what the costs would be. Flat out refused. He can't, we don't have that kind of money.

[Dropout 355]

3 minutes ago, Kermit said:

“How much is this shit gonna cost?” That’s a question I haven’t heard in a long time. 

 

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

His comments yesterday contradict that report. He flat out would not say what the costs would be. Flat out refused. He can't, we don't have that kind of money.

Followed with a we don’t have that kind of money. Ok boomer.

[406W30th 1111]

How much is Medicare For All going to cost? $2,000,000,000,000 less than the clusterfuck that is our current health care system, according to right-wing think tank Mercatus Center.

BuT i NeEd An ExAcT fIgUrE!!!

 

[Tom 2959]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Bernie can't even tell anyone how much all his programs for free healthcare, free college, fee housing, min. wage hikes, etc.  will cost....interdasting. But but but but Trump.

 

Bernie, a well meaning, crazy, old man.

 

1 hour ago, EuroHorn said:

But he’s got a plan to cover the cost, whatever that might be.  It’s on the internet.  He’s going to tax  the stock market until that doesn’t exist.  Then it’s on to ball bearings...

 

Conservatives crying about costs is rich. In my nearly four decades on Earth I've experienced the following:

Republican administrations in my lifetime where the deficit increased: all of them

Democrat administrations in my lifetime where the deficit decreased: all of them.

Funny how your people only start worrying about debt every time a person with a blue dot next to their name is about to lead the country.  Nobody know exactly what all these things will cost.  There are numerous estimates on the web.  What's not funny is that you don't seem to care that we already pay more in taxes per capita than any country in the world for health care, yet still have to pay an arm and leg for insurance and then pay again every time you want to use it, with millions of people that don't have access.

We have fallen behind most of the industrialized world in health care and education.  As others have said, nobody gives a shit about your cost concerns.  Nobody is buying the tea party bullshit this time around.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Tom

[gmr548 16427]

Bernie should have a better answer on cost for M4A. It's also true that we already spend ungodly sums on our current healthcare system given its shortcomings. He should also be driving home that it's significantly more cost effective over the long run instead of brushing off a legitimate question.

Anyone who ever voted for Reagan, Bush 2, or Trump should shut the fuck up about costs. Conservatives don't care about deficits unless we're talking about foundational expansion of them.

Both are true.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

What is the thing on the stock market? I don't understand what he means. Is there a calculator on who this will affect the average schmo who has a lot of stocks in their IRAs pr 401Ks? Or is this on a more macro level? 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

23 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

What is the thing on the stock market? I don't understand what he means. Is there a calculator on who this will affect the average schmo who has a lot of stocks in their IRAs pr 401Ks? Or is this on a more macro level? 

 It is fully paid for by a modest tax on Wall Street speculation

This sounds great. But as I've said before, the devil is in the details. If it's raising tax rates on the sale of stocks, yes it will effect us average schmos with stocks or Mutual Funds in IRA/401K's. 

 

[GSU&UT 1798]

1 hour ago, Calihorn said:

Its cute fiscal conservative think they still matter

I could maybe entertain arguments from Aqua Buddha Even though he's on record saying he won't vote for Bernie, but when OnBoard and EuroHorn are only in here because Bernie's the front runner, yeah we can rightfully make fun of them.

[bad_teammate 13115]

If you have an IRA or 401k, you're not an average schmo.

Also, your IRAs and 401k plans do not participate in high-frequency trading, so it won't really matter that much.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If you have an IRA or 401k, you're not an average schmo.

When the boomers die off with their pensions, most people will rely on IRA/401K's for retirement. Anyone who is a teacher/fed employee is likely in a retirement fund that is affected by the markets.

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Also, your IRAs and 401k plans do not participate in high-frequency trading, so it won't really matter that much.

Wrong. Let's look at a simple Fidelity Freedom Fund (2040): Turnover rate is 26%. 

[burntorangebongos 10681]

I am too an average schmo, an older one whobwas able to put away a percentage of my income in mutual funds and 401k. 

But I did look Wall Street speculation and it is " the practice of engaging in risky financial transactions in an attempt to profit from short term fluctuations in the market value of a tradable financial instrument, rather than attempting to profit from the underlying financial attributes embodied in the instrument,  such as caital gains." 

So does this mean you can't buy or short a security without paying a tax? Is this bad for the market? What is the effect on it? I don't buy shorts because I'm not brave enough but some people do real well on this activity. So I guess they will have to pay a vig(the tax)? 

As long as it isn't on the buy and sell to realize cap gains, this doesn't seem so bad but he didn't say and I'd really like to know. 

[bad_teammate 13115]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

When the boomers die off with their pensions, most people will rely on IRA/401K's for retirement. Anyone who is a teacher/fed employee is likely in a retirement fund that is affected by the markets.

Yes, and that's a problem we should be working to correct because it shifts even more oligarchic power to the billionaire class.

Quote

Wrong. Let's look at a simple Fidelity Freedom Fund (2040): Turnover rate is 26%. 

The average turnover rate in a mutual fund is like 60%.

All this will do is change investing strategies. And trying to moan about that against the needs of poor people just reveals how badly all of us here need to be guillotined.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

All this will do is change investing strategies. 

What? This is dumb and you should be embarrassed to post it. "Buy a bunch of stocks and don't trade them because of the implication of taxes" is a stupid strategy and will result in LESS wealth for the middle class and MORE wealth for people with a shitload of money who can absorb the tax costs.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33779]

13 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

Just put this on repeat until November,

 

"This is a scientific poll."  awesome

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

What? This is dumb and you should be embarrassed to post it. "Buy a bunch of stocks and don't trade them because of the implication of taxes" is a stupid strategy and will result in LESS wealth for the middle class and MORE wealth for people with a shitload of money who can absorb the tax costs.

I'm really confused about where your ideology lies. You seem to be supporting Sanders but then I guess you don't really like many of his policy proposals?

As someone who has a Roth IRA as my retirement vehicle, if I have to take less in retirement to actually improve the overall economy by wiping out student debt then that's fine.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/25/782070151/forgiving-student-debt-would-boost-economy

[GSU&UT 1798]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

"This is a scientific poll."  awesome

Cuomo's face is AMAZING, he wants no part of it haha.

[David Dennison 18487]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

His comments yesterday contradict that report. He flat out would not say what the costs would be. Flat out refused. He can't, we don't have that kind of money.

That hasn't stopped us yet.

[bad_teammate 13115]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

"Buy a bunch of stocks and don't trade them because of the implication of taxes" is a stupid strategy and will result in LESS wealth for the middle class and MORE wealth for people with a shitload of money who can absorb the tax costs.

Obviously some funds use a strategy that involves less trading. You just posted one whose turnover is 26%, which is less than half the average. The idea that high-frequency trading is the only successful strategy is absurd.

As for the concentration of wealth, well... we need to address that, too.

1) We need all major corporations to be worker-controlled (20% minimum) which will spread the market out across all Americans
2) We need massive wealth taxes to force the wealthy to liquidate their holdings (there should actually be a cap)

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

I'm really confused about where your ideology lies. You seem to be supporting Sanders but then I guess you don't really like many of his policy proposals?

I think he's the best of an average bunch, to be fair. I like a few of his proposals, but not all of them.

[bad_teammate 13115]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

You think Mike Bloomberg is worried about an account that caps his contributions at 19,000 per year (and much less than that in prior years)?

No. I also don't think the world is divided into the two categories of "billionaire" and "average people".

Less than half of American households have these investments. Therefore, by definition and math, the average person doesn't have these things.

Why isn't it enough for us to be this privileged? Why do we ALSO need to be told we're the yeoman class?

[GSU&UT 1798]

10 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I think he's the best of an average bunch, to be fair. I like a few of his proposals, but not all of them.

That's totally fair, I respect that a lot honestly because you seem actually grounded in reality versus so many other posters on here who have completely convinced themselves in mid February that Trump will 100% be re-elected.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

I spent all these years saving so I would be able to care for myself so I wouldn't be a burden and all I want is to be able to live my life with some of my usual comforts. Now, the rich are going to get mad at this and pull on their wealth to some unknown safe haven  and take their money and mine too while they are at it. I'm gonna be poor and you are going to have to support me where I might have been able to support myself. That sucks. Cuz if you dont think they won't fuck us again like they did in 2007, then you are wrong. None of them even went to jail. I don't have the time to rebuild my savings if it happens again. 

[GRHorn 105]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

That's totally fair, I respect that a lot honestly because you seem actually grounded in reality versus so many other posters on here who have completely convinced themselves in mid February that Trump will 100% be re-elected.

I only pop in and out, but I didn’t realize that was the sentiment here. 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

4 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

That's totally fair, I respect that a lot honestly because you seem actually grounded in reality versus so many other posters on here who have completely convinced themselves in mid February that Trump will 100% be re-elected.

Elections are in November, not February and a million things will happen between now and then.

I think Sanders is the most honest candidate in this race and that's huge for me. He believes everything he says. Joe Biden/Warren/Pete believe what think will get them elected. 

I just want Sanders to be pragmatic. Raising taxes on the wealthy is good. Addressing student loans, climate change, healthcare costs is perfect. But HOW we do those things is what is important. Tanking the stock market hurts the middle class and those in retirement. Forgiving student loans doesn't address the problem of education costs.

[GSU&UT 1798]

1 minute ago, burntorangebongos said:

I spent all these years saving so I would be able to care for myself so I wouldn't be a burden and all I want is to be able to live my life with some of my usual comforts. Now, the rich are going to get mad at this and pull on their wealth to some unknown safe haven  and take their money and mine too while they are at it. I'm gonna be poor and you are going to have to support me where I might have been able to support myself. That sucks. Cuz if you dont think they won't fuck us again like they did in 2007, then you are wrong. None of them even went to jail. I don't have the time to rebuild my savings if it happens again. 

I've got news for you, this is already happening and will happen if we get any Democratic president that tries to implement even a modest tax increase to help offset the enormous amount of inequality that keeps growing in this country. It is unsustainable and at some point something will give either through political action or something more violent. Like B_T pointed out that over half the people in this country basically don't have any savings for retirement and we know that Social Security may not be fully solvent later when massive amounts of Boomers start to retire.

[GRHorn 105]

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Obviously some funds use a strategy that involves less trading. You just posted one whose turnover is 26%, which is less than half the average. The idea that high-frequency trading is the only successful strategy is absurd.

As for the concentration of wealth, well... we need to address that, too.

1) We need all major corporations to be worker-controlled (20% minimum) which will spread the market out across all Americans
2) We need massive wealth taxes to force the wealthy to liquidate their holdings (there should actually be a cap)

How much of the wealthy’s holdings do you think should be subject to forced liquidations?

Also, which holdings? Equities? Real estate? Ownership shares of private companies?

Edited February 25, 2020 by GRHorn

[bad_teammate 13115]

4 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

I spent all these years saving so I would be able to care for myself so I wouldn't be a burden and all I want is to be able to live my life with some of my usual comforts. Now, the rich are going to get mad at this and pull on their wealth to some unknown safe haven  and take their money and mine too while they are at it. I'm gonna be poor and you are going to have to support me where I might have been able to support myself. That sucks. Cuz if you dont think they won't fuck us again like they did in 2007, then you are wrong. None of them even went to jail. I don't have the time to rebuild my savings if it happens again. 

Is this parody or is this real?

[Dbeasy 14931]

I'm really confused about where your ideology lies. You seem to be supporting Sanders but then I guess you don't really like many of his policy proposals?
As someone who has a Roth IRA as my retirement vehicle, if I have to take less in retirement to actually improve the overall economy by wiping out student debt then that's fine.
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/25/782070151/forgiving-student-debt-would-boost-economy

Great. How much less?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

 

Great. How much less?

 

However much it fucking takes, some of us understand the landscape of people under 40 in this country and have seen what grotesque inequality has created.

[bad_teammate 13115]

9 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Enlighten us.  It seems awfully complicated to come up with this new ownership scheme that isn’t based on actually owning something.

Don't say "us", buddy. Not everyone here is a bad-faith libertarian crying troll. You speak for yourself and no one else.

But as to the larger question of how that equity would be distributed, it's a benefit like any other negotiated within a union contract. That's the entire purpose of workplace democracy.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Hyberbole. It is the fear I heard on the phone from the folks  I talked to relying on their retirement income to make it. I got some of the fear too to be honest because I only know this is gonna affect me but not by how much and what it means to my ability to care for myself and not be a burden to anyone.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

you're already a burden to everyone on this board.

[bad_teammate 13115]

Just now, longhornmatt said:

So, no answer.  Thanks.

The answer, libertarian troll, would vary from one union-negotiated contract to another in a co-determination process between company executives and workers' representatives.

Would you prefer a system in which the federal government owns all of it and then comes up with a centralized plan?

1 minute ago, burntorangebongos said:

Hyberbole.

Yes. But you should think about the purpose and goal of that hyperbole, because it looks like, "LEAVE MY MONEY ALONE YOU POOR SCUM!"

If that's your intended message, then you nailed it.

If that's not your intended message, then you might need to think it through.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Is it really true ?  Did Bernie actually praise Field Castro on the Sunday news shows ?

[Dirk X West 772]

“We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but you know, it’s unfair to simply say everything is bad..."

Outrageous!

[workswithseed 2028]

2 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

I could maybe entertain arguments from Aqua Buddha Even though he's on record saying he won't vote for Bernie, but when OnBoard and EuroHorn are only in here because Bernie's the front runner, yeah we can rightfully make fun of them.

This makes no sense. Is Bernie only to be questioned by Aqua?

 

[bad_teammate 13115]

Everyone can question Bernie. Everyone can be dunked on if they say something stupid.

I love this nation.

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Is it really true ?  Did Bernie actually praise Field Castro on the Sunday news shows ?

Hell yes he did. Said Castro had a mean curveball and cooked the most fragrant paella imaginable.

[Zonahorn 8072]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Is it really true ?  Did Bernie actually praise Field Castro on the Sunday news shows ?

Nope, he praised certain aspects of his regime such as raising his countries literacy rates to American levels, but dismissed him as an authoritarian thug overall.

[bad_teammate 13115]

when he was a kid, Bernie would write "Bernie Castro" over and over in his composition notebook and draw little hearts all around it

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Well if his policies redisributes the wealth from the middle class to the poor scum, I might be ok then. 

 

[bad_teammate 13115]

1 minute ago, burntorangebongos said:

Well if his policies redisributes the wealth from the middle class to the poor scum, I might be ok then.

If you look at how he proposes to pay for it, he's not going to do that.

[Dropout 355]

15 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

“We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but you know, it’s unfair to simply say everything is bad..."

Outrageous!

Contradict this with Bloomberg refusing to call Xi a dictator in the largest openly Communist regime in the world. Or Trump sucking Uns balls. And we are supposed to give a fuck about Bernie's comments on Castro?

Take the hypocritical double standard comments and blow em out the ass.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Dropout
Your sarcasm was noted. Not a shot at you.

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If you look at how he proposes to pay for it, he's not going to do that.

How much of the wealthy’s holdings do you think should be subject to forced liquidations?

Also, which holdings? Equities? Real estate? Ownership shares of private companies?