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Posted
40 minutes ago, WineGuy69 said:

The best plan is to eradicate our enemies. People like you are why Europe is failing as mass migration breaks the economy. Progressivism has broken the system and the reactive wave is going to change things. Glad you got a decade of transgender rights though!

Well, wait, I thought eradicating enemies, like Russia, cost money that we don't want to spend, and foreign entanglements and all that.

Or is it only brown enemies, or Islamic ones?  What about the Jews, when do they get their time in the barrel?

And what the blue fuck does this have to do with immigration?

 

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Posted
10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, wait, I thought eradicating enemies, like Russia, cost money that we don't want to spend, and foreign entanglements and all that.

Or is it only brown enemies, or Islamic ones?  What about the Jews, when do they get their time in the barrel?

And what the blue fuck does this have to do with immigration?

 

Referencing myself and answering my own question.  

In keeping with populist nationalists everywhere, you have been deluded into believing that immigration -- replacement theory -- is the actual problem.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, wait, I thought eradicating enemies, like Russia, cost money that we don't want to spend, and foreign entanglements and all that.

Or is it only brown enemies, or Islamic ones?  What about the Jews, when do they get their time in the barrel?

And what the blue fuck does this have to do with immigration?

 

I said the BEST plan. Carrying it out is a different discussion and threats shouldn't just be to one side of the isle I mean true threats to Western Democracy and ways of life.

Yes jihadists that fundamentally want to eradicate all other people they deem as idolators are a pretty big threat. I dont really care what color they are. Sorry there aren't a lot of radicals in Europe that I deem as threats. 

We could start a whole other thread about the Jews, from their meddling in America politics through things like AIPAC, bombing of the USS Liberty to get false flags, Netanyahu and his teetering on dictatorship, false Israeli intel to get us to destabilized Iraq, etc etc.

Progressivism is what a ton of people on this board are. Progressivism has people literally making excuses for Iran. Progressivism is what convinced Europe to open its borders for migrants to then live off the welfare system, not assimilate, and put massive stress on things like housing and the economy. 

I'll get negged. Not the end of the world. I just don't think like everyone here and that is apparently a massive offense.

Oh to the idiot that says because I think differently I must not have a family or father that love. That is really sad that's how you handle or justifying someone having a different opinion. I am so sorry I have different thoughts than you. Father's Day is Sunday. I live in the same city as my father. I am taking out steaks and wine to his house tonight. I hope you have a great Fathers Day as well. @Hank_Hill

Edited by WineGuy69
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Posted
6 minutes ago, WineGuy69 said:

I said the BEST plan. Carrying it out is a different discussion and threats shouldn't just be to one side of the isle I mean true threats to Western Democracy and ways of life.

So you’ll be participating in one of the No Kings protests today?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, WineGuy69 said:

I said the BEST plan. Carrying it out is a different discussion.

Yes jihadists that fundamentally want to eradicate all other people they deem as idolators are a pretty big threat. I dont really care what color they are. Sorry there aren't a lot of radicals in Europe that I deem as threats. 

We could start a whole other thread about the Jews, from their meddling in America politics through things like AIPAC, bombing of the USS Liberty to get false flags, Netanyahu and his teetering on dictatorship, false Israeli intel to get us to destabilized Iraq, etc etc.

Progressivism is what a ton of people on this board are. Progressivism has people literally making excuses for Iran. Progressivism is what convinced Europe to open its borders for migrants to then live off the welfare system, not assimilate, and put massive stress on things like housing and the economy. 

I'll get negged. Not the end of the world. I just don't think like everyone here and that is apparently a massive offense.

Oh to the idiot that says because think differently I must not have a family or father that love. That is really sad that's how you handle or justifying someone having a different opinion. I am so sorry I have different thoughts than you. Father's Day is Sunday. I live in the same city as my father. I am taking out steaks and wine to his house tonight. I hope you have a great Fathers Day as well. @Hank_Hill

No one here is making excuses for Iran.

We're debating how best to curtail the nuclear ambitions of a rogue state.

The options seem to be a) do nothing until b) military strike at significant risk of regional/global destabilization or c) come to some sort of agreement, however imperfect, that attempts to put some kind of limits on them, with penalties.

All options may end in b), but c) certainly seems to be preferable to a).

And, if we're gonna talk about Bibi "teetering on dictatorship," what about Trump?  

I am far from a progressive, historically.  I voted GOP for 35 years, with increasing hesitancy and discomfort as the culture war bullshit heated up.  I cannot stand Trump, "personally," and his policies and administration are complete horseshit.  He fucked up the Iran deal by not at least pursuing a dialog because he's a petty cunt.

With respect to immigration, he deliberately, again because he's a petty cunt, torpedoed the most significant reform in nearly a half century.

The vast majority of the CR, the "leftist cabal," more resembles me than "progressives."

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
2 minutes ago, royiv said:

So you’ll be participating in one of the No Kings protests today?

 

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No one here is making excuses for Iran.

We're debating how best to curtail the nuclear ambitions of a rogue state.

The options seem to be a) do nothing until b) military strike at significant risk of regional/global destabilization or c) come to some sort of agreement, however imperfect, that attempts to put some kind of limits on them, with penalties.

All options may end in b), but c) certainly seems to be preferable to a).

And, if we're gonna talk about Bibi "teetering on dictatorship," what about Trump?

I am souring and have been on Israel. The govt of course. But if they want to take out Iranian leadership and nuclear scientists, fucking let em. This world needs less Jihadists and these ones run an entire country and sponsor proxies all over the world.

 

We're 6 month in to his second presidency. I know you don't like him. I am not arguing that you should. We know were just going to go down a rabbit-hole that wont solve anything. He is not a king. I'll wait before I start protesting til I hear rhetoric, legitimate rhetoric, that he is going to try to change or seek a third term. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

We're debating how best to curtail the nuclear ambitions of a rogue state.

 

Curtail is an interesting word choice: Are we talking 5yrs, 10yrs, 25yrs? 35 years later we seem to be at the end game from the late 1980s, when Iran initiated its first secret uranium enrichment program (with support from Pakistan, China, and Russia). 

 

https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/weapon-program-background-report/history-irans-nuclear-program

 

Key Iranian Nuclear Facilities:

Natanz:

This is Iran's largest uranium enrichment facility, containing both above-ground and underground facilities. The Fuel Enrichment Plant (FEP) is located underground, and the Pilot Fuel Enrichment Plant (PFEP) is above ground. 

Fordo:

Located near Qom, Fordo is a heavily fortified, underground facility designed to withstand attacks. It houses Iran's most advanced centrifuges and is considered crucial for enriching uranium to near weapons-grade. 

Bushehr:

This is Iran's only operational nuclear power plant, built with Russian assistance. It uses Russian-produced fuel and is monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). 

Other potential sites:

Iran has also been reported to be developing other nuclear-related facilities, including underground tunnels near Natanz. There are also reports of a new enrichment facility being developed according to AP News. 

 

Concerns and International Oversight:

Non-compliance:

Iran has been accused of failing to uphold its obligations under its safeguards agreement with the IAEA, specifically regarding undeclared nuclear material and activities. 

Uranium Enrichment:

Iran has been enriching uranium to higher levels, including 60% purity, which is close to weapons-grade. 

IAEA Monitoring:

The IAEA monitors Iran's nuclear program to ensure that it is used for peaceful purposes, but Iran's lack of full cooperation and transparency raises concerns. 

Potential for Weaponization:

The combination of advanced enrichment capabilities, underground facilities, and lack of full transparency raises concerns that Iran may be developing nuclear weapons. 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Curtail is an interesting word choice: Are we talking 5yrs, 10yrs, 25yrs? 35 years later we seem to be at the end game from the late 1980s, when Iran initiated its first secret uranium enrichment program (with support from Pakistan, China, and Russia). 

 

https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/weapon-program-background-report/history-irans-nuclear-program

 

Key Iranian Nuclear Facilities:

Natanz:

This is Iran's largest uranium enrichment facility, containing both above-ground and underground facilities. The Fuel Enrichment Plant (FEP) is located underground, and the Pilot Fuel Enrichment Plant (PFEP) is above ground. 

Fordo:

Located near Qom, Fordo is a heavily fortified, underground facility designed to withstand attacks. It houses Iran's most advanced centrifuges and is considered crucial for enriching uranium to near weapons-grade. 

Bushehr:

This is Iran's only operational nuclear power plant, built with Russian assistance. It uses Russian-produced fuel and is monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). 

Other potential sites:

Iran has also been reported to be developing other nuclear-related facilities, including underground tunnels near Natanz. There are also reports of a new enrichment facility being developed according to AP News. 

 

Concerns and International Oversight:

Non-compliance:

Iran has been accused of failing to uphold its obligations under its safeguards agreement with the IAEA, specifically regarding undeclared nuclear material and activities. 

Uranium Enrichment:

Iran has been enriching uranium to higher levels, including 60% purity, which is close to weapons-grade. 

IAEA Monitoring:

The IAEA monitors Iran's nuclear program to ensure that it is used for peaceful purposes, but Iran's lack of full cooperation and transparency raises concerns. 

Potential for Weaponization:

The combination of advanced enrichment capabilities, underground facilities, and lack of full transparency raises concerns that Iran may be developing nuclear weapons. 

Hence my acknowledgement that all options may end in b).

I suppose ordinarily kicking the can down the road to postpone b) is undesirable.

But, there is and has always been hope for regime change or moderation in Iran.

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Posted
18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hence my acknowledgement that all options may end in b).

I suppose ordinarily kicking the can down the road to postpone b) is undesirable.

But, there is and has always been hope for regime change or moderation in Iran.

I agree. I dont want to completely destabilize the region...AGAIN. It will result in more refugees and more problems for the West. 

But targeted strikes against the Iranian leadership that does not result in invading or targeting civilians could weaken the top enough to allow for a internal revolution/regime change.

I have a friend from Iran and she posted on Instagram that her family and friends are taking to the streets in Iran hoping for an opportunity to create change.

Hopefully a huge opportunity. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

How many times has tyranny lost in a revolution?

  • American Revolution (1765-1783):
    .Opens in new tab
    This revolution saw the American colonies overthrow British rule, establishing the United States of America and its republican government. 
     
  • French Revolution (1789-1799):
    .Opens in new tab
    This revolution resulted in the overthrow of the French monarchy and the establishment of the First French Republic, though it was later followed by other forms of government. 
     
  • Haitian Revolution (1791-1804):
    .Opens in new tab
    A successful slave revolt against French colonial rule, leading to the establishment of the independent nation of Haiti. 
     
  • .Opens in new tab
    This revolution resulted in the end of the Tsarist autocracy and the establishment of the Soviet Union, though it also involved a period of civil war and the rise of communist rule. 
     
  • .Opens in new tab
    In China, this revolution led to the end of the Qing dynasty and the establishment of the Republic of China. 
     
  • .Opens in new tab
    The Roman Revolution (510-509 BC) overthrew the Roman monarchy and established the Republic. The Athenian Revolution (508-507 BC) deposed the tyrant Hippias and established democracy in Athens. The Eighty Years' War (1566-1648), also known as the Dutch revolution, resulted in the independence of the Netherlands from Spanish rule. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions

Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 6:29 PM, Brian Fantana said:

They had 24/7 access to all of their facilities and there was extremely invasive surveillance and monitoring equipment in place that was closely monitored 24/7. 

 

In the facilities they declared, not all the facilities. There was always a hidden and secret program beyond that acknowledged and covered by the deal, as is coming out now that the bombing started. To think and argue otherwise, is extremely naive, and undermines any credibility or poster. Why enrich uranium to anything above 5%, if not for weapons production?

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Posted
1 hour ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

In the facilities they declared, not all the facilities. There was always a hidden and secret program beyond that acknowledged and covered by the deal, as is coming out now that the bombing started. To think and argue otherwise, is extremely naive, and undermines any credibility or poster. Why enrich uranium to anything above 5%, if not for weapons production?

9xierk.jpg.a05d5078c0144779d82435bb922b5500.jpg

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Posted
1 hour ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

In the facilities they declared, not all the facilities. There was always a hidden and secret program beyond that acknowledged and covered by the deal, as is coming out now that the bombing started. To think and argue otherwise, is extremely naive, and undermines any credibility or poster. Why enrich uranium to anything above 5%, if not for weapons production?

Stop fucking pinging me and trying to engage with me, dumb fuck. I very clearly don't give a shit what you have to say on any subject, and my lack of response to the other dozens of times you've tried to ping me or quote me should have clued you in. If you are this desperate to find someone who gives a shit about your pudding brained hallucinations, I suggest TexAgs.

This is the first and last time I will respond to you. You have no fucking idea what you are talking about and I have zero desire to have a conversation with you. Fuck off and harass someone else.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Stop fucking pinging me and trying to engage with me, dumb fuck. I very clearly don't give a shit what you have to say on any subject, and my lack of response to the other dozens of times you've tried to ping me or quote me should have clued you in. If you are this desperate to find someone who gives a shit about your pudding brained hallucinations, I suggest TexAgs.

This is the first and last time I will respond to you. You have no fucking idea what you are talking about and I have zero desire to have a conversation with you. Fuck off and harass someone else.

 

crying-baby.gif

 

God you are a little bitch, I'm sorry your butt-hole sweats for terrorists. If you don't want to get "pinged", then stop posting dumb fucking takes, and stay in the cloak room where your apologia will be better received. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

There is some irony using that image in light of what came out regarding Iraq's non-existent WMDs.

For fucks sake, Baghdad Bob was talking infidels committing suicide by the thousands and shit like that.  GTFOH

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

For fucks sake, Baghdad Bob was talking infidels committing suicide by the thousands and shit like that.  GTFOH

I just found the irony in this context mildly amusing. I wasn't making any grander statement. Just an odd choice of image given the circumstances. 

Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 6:29 PM, Brian Fantana said:

They had 24/7 access to all of their facilities and there was extremely invasive surveillance and monitoring equipment in place that was closely monitored 24/7. 

 

12 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

In the facilities they declared, not all the facilities. There was always a hidden and secret program beyond that acknowledged and covered by the deal, as is coming out now that the bombing started. To think and argue otherwise, is extremely naive, and undermines any credibility or poster. Why enrich uranium to anything above 5%, if not for weapons production?

 

https://archive.is/mkHnl#selection-2155.0-2167.160

 

Quote
Adding to the risks is that Fordow is not the only ultra-secure facility that Iran can fall back on. Tehran has recently been building an even deeper and better protected facility into Kūh-e Kolang Gaz Lā, also known as Pickaxe mountain, a few kilometres south of Natanz. 
While Fordow is thought to have two tunnel entrances, Pickaxe has at least four, making it harder to seal off entrances by bombing. Its underground halls also have more floorspace.
Some fear the facility, which Iran has so far barred the IAEA from inspecting, could even be used to assemble a nuclear weapon while Iran was under attack.
“A key question is whether Iran will, or maybe already has, secreted fissile material into Pickaxe, or some other unknown facility,” said the FDD’s Ben Taleblu.

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I just found the irony in this context mildly amusing. I wasn't making any grander statement. Just an odd choice of image given the circumstances. 

The circumstances are someone being full of shit. Baghdad Bob is the standard bearer with Fantana closing hard.  No irony employed 

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Posted

It is somewhat interesting to me that Iran, by most accounts a pretty backward place due to the current and long-standing regime, can competently build facilities like these and carry out fairly sophisticated nuclear engineering.

I always wonder what if any coercion the scientists engaged in the work are coerced, true believers, or what and am somewhat compuncted by their assassination.

We were afraid that Iraq was doing similar things with Chem/Bio weapons, but were wrong (tying this back to the above).

Posted
25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is somewhat interesting to me that Iran, by most accounts a pretty backward place due to the current and long-standing regime, can competently build facilities like these and carry out fairly sophisticated nuclear engineering.

I always wonder what if any coercion the scientists engaged in the work are coerced, true believers, or what and am somewhat compuncted by their assassination.

We were afraid that Iraq was doing similar things with Chem/Bio weapons, but were wrong (tying this back to the above).

 

 

With Russian, Chinese, and Pakistani help anything is possible. Shit, even Cuba can have nukes. 

Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is somewhat interesting to me that Iran, by most accounts a pretty backward place due to the current and long-standing regime, can competently build facilities like these and carry out fairly sophisticated nuclear engineering.

I always wonder what if any coercion the scientists engaged in the work are coerced, true believers, or what and am somewhat compuncted by their assassination.

We were afraid that Iraq was doing similar things with Chem/Bio weapons, but were wrong (tying this back to the above).

North Korea has nukes. National sophistication is not a requirement. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

 

With Russian, Chinese, and Pakistani help anything is possible. Shit, even Cuba can have nukes. 

And, if I recall correctly, France has been highly complicit with Iran and other rogue states with nuclear ambitions.

Posted
28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, if I recall correctly, France has been highly complicit with Iran and other rogue states with nuclear ambitions.

It makes for an interesting question, if the Ayatollah's regime finally falls and the Western world (namely us, because you know that's how it's going to be) facilitates a transition to a new government, do we still consider Iran a rogue state? I know that the more reactionary types in this thread will still say yes because Mooslems are too scary and brown, but if the mullahs are gone I can't see a good reason to keep them under the heavy sanctions (including the near total economic embargo) currently imposed.

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Posted

I think it's naive to think that the only intel we (or the rest of the west) have on Iran's nuclear programs is the official published monitoring under the agreements. It would seem we have other intel that gives us comfort. Of course I'm learning that I've long overestimated the actual strength of the U.S. in general so maybe it has been a bunch of slapdick bullshit the whole time. 

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