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2019/2020 Hunting Thread

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It is a 10. The brow tines are there just obscured some.

 

I keep forgetting to post a 10 I saw this weekend. Maybe it is actually an 11??? It has dual brow tines on right side and one on the left. One of the tines looks like a unicorns horn, it goes forward instead of up. I will try and remember to pull it off my laptop later.  

Edited by HOOKEM4

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My family land is in an MLD County, but we are not enrolled in any of the MLD programs because they were a pain in the ass to deal with. Therefore we and the majority of farms around us are only killing doe during the MLD exempt period. For the last decade or longer, that has been the weekend after Thanksgiving ONLY. They finally realized how overrun with doe we are in that region and this year the MLD exempt period is November 2nd-17th. Maybe I should have clarified that when I say MLD has done more harm than good, I mean at least for us. If you’re a big operation that manages wild game and profits from it I’m sure it’s beneficial, but not for a family farm that harvests 20-25 deer a year max.


Franklin county?

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6 hours ago, thestud said:

My family land is in an MLD County, but we are not enrolled in any of the MLD programs because they were a pain in the ass to deal with. Therefore we and the majority of farms around us are only killing doe during the MLD exempt period. For the last decade or longer, that has been the weekend after Thanksgiving ONLY. They finally realized how overrun with doe we are in that region and this year the MLD exempt period is November 2nd-17th. Maybe I should have clarified that when I say MLD has done more harm than good, I mean at least for us. If you’re a big operation that manages wild game and profits from it I’m sure it’s beneficial, but not for a family farm that harvests 20-25 deer a year max.

That sounds like an issue with your county regs, not the MLD programs.  What you are describing sounds like the LAMPS program for doe permits, which is entirely separate from MLD.

I do not even know what you mean by saying your land is in an MLD county or the dates you reference.  MLD programs can be applied to in any county.  And the MLD regs do not limit when you can shoot doe.  You can shoot doe from September to almost March. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, thestud said:

 


Milam

 

Yeah, your general regs are similar to most east texas counties --- no doe outside of first two weeks.  If you are MLD, you can hunt them all season.  Those doe restrictions have nothing to do with other ranches in your county doing MLD programs.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/regs/counties/milam/

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30 minutes ago, thestud said:

I know how MLD works. What I'm saying is it is a pain in the ass to get into the program, then stay in the program at a satisfactory level. If you don't use all of your tags, then they use that against you the next year when it comes time to issue them again. We aren't a game outfit that slays deer by the dozen. We are a family operation centered around beefmaster cattle, coastal hay production, and when the weather provides we yield a decent wheat crop. We can't commit to 80+ doe tags because there's no way we would come close to filling them. Some years maybe, but most years we're just too busy with everything else to commit to chasing tail. But there are some years where if we weren't an MLD county and could use our regular tags during the normal season, we'd put a decent dent in the population.

Every county in Texas is a mld County.  MLD has zero to do with restricting doe seasons.  TPWD does that in counties with lower deer density typically.  MLD and restricted doe seasons aren’t connected in any way.  

I’m in Frio and Zavala counties.  Most big ranches around there are MLD.   As is our place.  There aren’t any doe restrictions like in your county.  The 400 acre place across the road isn’t MLD.  They can kill doe all season long using their regular tags.  

Edited by Johnny Sack

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Father sent me this pic of a nice buck running a doe in NE Texas.  Said he didn't even realize the truck was there until he was about 20 yds from it.  Blurry pic, but a good looking buck...wouldn't mind running across him in the woods.

E9449B5C-DC5A-4258-A2D2-28CE77AE7929_1_201_a.jpeg

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@UTEX90  I hunt in an antler restricted (and doe restricted) county.  We are MLD and we are under 1,000 acres; also, it's a lease.  It has been fantastic for us from a harvest management perspective because it allows us to shoot mature bucks that are less than 13 inches as you describe, plus we don't have to go through the separate process of getting doe tags.  If I were hunting your ranch I can already tell you that the MLD program would be a no brainer.  However, if you are hunting 3,000 acres and not harvesting much, you should start thinking about what your goals for the property are and then decide whether MLD permits will help you achieve that.  

Not sure what county you are in or the particulars of your ranch, but let's say you have 100 deer per 1,000 acres and your buck-doe ratio is actually 1:1.  You can probably expect to end up with 21 doe permits and 21 buck permits per year (on average).  Now, you don't HAVE to harvest that amount, but you should be pretty close to your tag allotment each year...I don't have actual experience with TPWD being punitive for a ranch not using all of their MLD permits, but it's something everyone thinks about for sure (including us), so maybe it does happen?  From what it sounds like y'all harvest today, the MLD process could be a real shift in mentality for your family.  But the paper work isn't bad at all (in my experience) and the survey stuff are things we would be doing every year on our own anyway.  

To your other points, as mentioned above, you can't materially influence genetics by harvesting bucks. "Trophy" bucks produce "trash" buck offspring and vise versa.  But the MLD program will dang sure allow you to fill your freezer with mature bucks who are not ever going to meet your ranch's criteria of a "trophy."  With respect to the deer with antlers on only 1 side, if I were convinced this was genetic and they hadn't broken them off, I would shoot those every day.  I would also shoot the 1.5 year old with an injury because the coyotes would likely get him on the place we hunt.  I would shoot these deer because if I have to harvest 21 bucks, these are easy one's to add to the harvest list.

Shameless plug for your friends and potentially the Surly kingdom:  If you decide to go MLD and need help harvesting, you won't have a problem putting together a group to hunt, whether it be by lease or invitation.   

        

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53 minutes ago, 3shot said:

If you decide to go MLD and need help harvesting, you won't have a problem putting together a group to hunt, whether it be by lease or invitation.

This is what I was thinking.  I’d help you with some of those tags if you need.  Steaks and whiskey on me, too. 

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5 hours ago, 3shot said:

If you are hunting 3,000 acres and not harvesting much, you should start thinking about what your goals for the property are and then decide whether MLD permits will help you achieve that. 

I think I would only to get MLD on 1500 acres which is the most populated deer section and can be easily segregated from the rest of the ranch that is primarily used for grazing cattle.  Over the last eight years there have been only 4 deer killed all by my son or myself.   Everyone else just pretty much deer watches and I am the only one in my family that really hunts.  I am concerned about the harvest strategy that goes with MLD.  I assume the penalty for failure to fill tags is fewer tags the next year or a loss of MLD status.  I would love to transition to MLD but I have to get the rest of my non hunting family on board. 

How many tags do you get for your less than 1000 acres?  Just curious how many deer we may have to harvest.

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On 11/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, thestud said:

My family land is in an MLD County, but we are not enrolled in any of the MLD programs because they were a pain in the ass to deal with. Therefore we and the majority of farms around us are only killing doe during the MLD exempt period. For the last decade or longer, that has been the weekend after Thanksgiving ONLY. They finally realized how overrun with doe we are in that region and this year the MLD exempt period is November 2nd-17th. Maybe I should have clarified that when I say MLD has done more harm than good, I mean at least for us. If you’re a big operation that manages wild game and profits from it I’m sure it’s beneficial, but not for a family farm that harvests 20-25 deer a year max.

This has been my hesitancy to move forward.

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38 minutes ago, UTEX90 said:

I think I would only to get MLD on 1500 acres which is the most populated deer section and can be easily segregated from the rest of the ranch that is primarily used for grazing cattle.  Over the last eight years there have been only 4 deer killed all by my son or myself.   Everyone else just pretty much deer watches and I am the only one in my family that really hunts.  I am concerned about the harvest strategy that goes with MLD.  I assume the penalty for failure to fill tags is fewer tags the next year or a loss of MLD status.  I would love to transition to MLD but I have to get the rest of my non hunting family on board. 

How many tags do you get for your less than 1000 acres?  Just curious how many deer we may have to harvest.

We usually get between 12 and 16 and they are split relatively evenly between bucks and does, but again, it's going to depend on your area and deer density per acre.  If you haven't already, look into the Harvest Option MLD program.  The one that requires deer surveys and more information and input is the Conversation Option.  It sounds like the Harvest Option may be exactly what you need because there's no input required from TPWD and I bet the number of tags they give you will be a lot less than what it would otherwise be.  All of this stuff is on TPWD's website and if you have questions, you can call them; once you get to the right person, I have found them to be very helpful.    

4 deer killed over 8 years on 1,500 acres?  16 bucks observed on opening day, all but 1 under 13 inches wide?  You need to thin that herd!  Get some kids out there pronto and have some fun :).      

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Had a great weekend last weekend.  Arrived in Mertzon around 6PM on Friday night, up at 5 the next morning and got this one around 9 AM as we were about to head back to camp:

spacer.png

 

Cleaned and quartered it at camp and hung out with FIL until about 4PM and went back out to a different blind and got a doe:

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Cleaned and quartered her at camp and was back in Houston at 3PM on Sunday.  FIL took both deer back and processed them in to 50/60 pounds of ground venison and backstrap:

sA5O3sm.jpg

Fun was had.  Good weekend.

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On 11/12/2019 at 9:05 AM, 3shot said:

.I don't have actual experience with TPWD being punitive for a ranch not using all of their MLD permits, but it's something everyone thinks about for sure (including us), so maybe it does happen?

My TPWD biologist buddy used to pick me up at the end of February and we’d go to the King Ranch and shoot every doe we saw. I think it’s a pretty big deal if you don’t use all of the permits. 

Edited by Lat22

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On 11/12/2019 at 9:05 AM, 3shot said:

@UTEX90  I hunt in an antler restricted (and doe restricted) county.  We are MLD and we are under 1,000 acres; also, it's a lease.  It has been fantastic for us from a harvest management perspective because it allows us to shoot mature bucks that are less than 13 inches as you describe, plus we don't have to go through the separate process of getting doe tags.  If I were hunting your ranch I can already tell you that the MLD program would be a no brainer.  However, if you are hunting 3,000 acres and not harvesting much, you should start thinking about what your goals for the property are and then decide whether MLD permits will help you achieve that.  

Not sure what county you are in or the particulars of your ranch, but let's say you have 100 deer per 1,000 acres and your buck-doe ratio is actually 1:1.  You can probably expect to end up with 21 doe permits and 21 buck permits per year (on average).  Now, you don't HAVE to harvest that amount, but you should be pretty close to your tag allotment each year...I don't have actual experience with TPWD being punitive for a ranch not using all of their MLD permits, but it's something everyone thinks about for sure (including us), so maybe it does happen?  From what it sounds like y'all harvest today, the MLD process could be a real shift in mentality for your family.  But the paper work isn't bad at all (in my experience) and the survey stuff are things we would be doing every year on our own anyway.  

To your other points, as mentioned above, you can't materially influence genetics by harvesting bucks. "Trophy" bucks produce "trash" buck offspring and vise versa.  But the MLD program will dang sure allow you to fill your freezer with mature bucks who are not ever going to meet your ranch's criteria of a "trophy."  With respect to the deer with antlers on only 1 side, if I were convinced this was genetic and they hadn't broken them off, I would shoot those every day.  I would also shoot the 1.5 year old with an injury because the coyotes would likely get him on the place we hunt.  I would shoot these deer because if I have to harvest 21 bucks, these are easy one's to add to the harvest list.

Shameless plug for your friends and potentially the Surly kingdom:  If you decide to go MLD and need help harvesting, you won't have a problem putting together a group to hunt, whether it be by lease or invitation.   

        

I know we have materially influenced genetics at our place.  Probably more has to do with getting deer density and ratios right plus supplementing nutrition with food plots and protein.  But we high fenced 30 years ago.   And we cull bucks based on taking the inferior deer from each class.  You need people who can age deer on the hoof.

But whatever it is, we have far superior bucks than we did 30 years ago.  I mean it is not even close.  We went from our best deer being in the 150s to now being 190s to 200.  The first 5 years we had the place we never cracked 155.

The only toying we have done with genetics is netting a nice buck and netting 20 doe or so.  We put them in a 100 acre trap with plenty of cover during the breeding season.  Then turn leave gates open and let them go.  That and one year we fucked up our survey and thought we had a lot more doe than we actually did.  So we killed way too many.  We brought in 40 or so doe netted off another really good ranch down the road.

 

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36 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I know we have materially influenced genetics at our place.  Probably more has to do with getting deer density and ratios right plus supplementing nutrition with food plots and protein.  But we high fenced 30 years ago.   And we cull bucks based on taking the inferior deer from each class.  You need people who can age deer on the hoof.

But whatever it is, we have far superior bucks than we did 30 years ago.  I mean it is not even close.  We went from our best deer being in the 150s to now being 190s to 200.  The first 5 years we had the place we never cracked 155.

The only toying we have done with genetics is netting a nice buck and netting 20 doe or so.  We put them in a 100 acre trap with plenty of cover during the breeding season.  Then turn leave gates open and let them go.  That and one year we fucked up our survey and thought we had a lot more doe than we actually did.  So we killed way too many.  We brought in 40 or so doe netted off another really good ranch down the road.

 

I am no expert on the subject by any means, but it never made sense to me that you could influence the genetics of a deer herd by harvesting bucks since that is only 1/2 of the genetic makeup of a deer, especially on a low fence place.  Still, we basically do what everyone else does with respect to shooting bucks we think will not reach our "trophy" criteria.  I personally look at it as managing the number of mouths that are competing for nutrition, rather than influencing genetics, but this is just my opinion and few seem to share it, including my fellow lease members.  It does make for a nice discussion over the campfire every now and then though.

There is a recent paper that was published on this topic that you should take a look at, if you haven't before.  I cannot find an electronic copy of the paper at the moment, but the findings are summarized here: https://www.qdma.com/qdm-works-culling-doesnt/   

Your ranch sounds awesome, by the way.  Must feel great to see y'alls patience and hard work payoff over the years.    

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Acquaintance of mine had a place down in Freer that they bought pretty much shot out. They high fenced it and brought in a bunch of deer.  Over a decade or so, it became pretty apparent the does they had brought in (off a deer farm) were giving them as much, if not better results than their breeder bucks. There is more than just the buck in the equation.     
 

They did not run their operation legitimately (or legally) and one year, TPW came in and shot everything that moved. Well over a dozen 200” deer and several more in 250” range.  But they were way outside the rules.  They did away with the breeding program (forced to, likely) and brought in a shitload more.   Oilfield millionaires without a care in the world. Place is gone now, completely shot out before it was sold, I’m sure. 

Edited by fattyflattie

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13 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Acquaintance of mine had a place down in Freer that they bought pretty much shot out. They high fenced it and brought in a bunch of deer.  Over a decade or so, it became pretty apparent the does they had brought in (off a deer farm) were giving them as much, if not better results than their breeder bucks. There is more than just the buck in the equation.     
 

They did not run their operation legitimately (or legally) and one year, TPW came in and shot everything that moved. Well over a dozen 200” deer and several more in 250” range.  But they were way outside the rules.  They did away with the breeding program (forced to, likely) and brought in a shitload more.   Oilfield millionaires without a care in the world. Place is gone now, completely shot out before it was sold, I’m sure. 

Going to a friend's place in Freer tomorrow morning to hunt this weekend.  They shot all their natives and high fenced (it was already high fenced by neighbors except for the highway border).  They did breeder bucks and bred doe.  They have massive deer.  They are at least wild as they turn them out young.

He needs help shooting culls.  Which are the ones under 180.  I am going mainly to hang out with good friends.  Planning on just shooting pigs with my new Creedmor and a turkey or two (they are covered up with Turkey).  Just cannot get into shooting a breeder buck.  Not my thing.

 

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Meh.  This place was very dense and decent sized. Deer were as wild (acting) as anywhere else I’ve been.  Probably worse, as they had to worry about being shot at any time with those outlaws.  Their long time breeder was a ~215 slick 10.  It was finally shot as a 195” with a broken 2 or 3 (can’t recall).  I doubt it was as wild as the others. 
 

That sounds like an amazing trip, even if you aren’t into the deer, particularly. Culling <180. Man.   The place I was talking didn’t have shit for turkey or hogs.  Just wt, an occasional axis, and shitloads of bobcats.   I really love that area, but man the poaching and just general hunted out atmosphere really brings it down, if you aren’t on a very big, or high fenced place.  Good luck...to your liver. 

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4 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Meh.  This place was very dense and decent sized. Deer were as wild (acting) as anywhere else I’ve been.  Probably worse, as they had to worry about being shot at any time with those outlaws.  Their long time breeder was a ~215 slick 10.  It was finally shot as a 195” with a broken 2 or 3 (can’t recall).  I doubt it was as wild as the others. 
 

That sounds like an amazing trip, even if you aren’t into the deer, particularly. Culling <180. Man.   The place I was talking didn’t have shit for turkey or hogs.  Just wt, an occasional axis, and shitloads of bobcats.   I really love that area, but man the poaching and just general hunted out atmosphere really brings it down, if you aren’t on a very big, or high fenced place.  Good luck...to your liver. 

I’ll probably let my ten year old bust a cull.  I’d love for him to get a big 150 inch 8 point.  I just love how those look. 

My buddies place doesn’t have a bunch of crazy ass 30 point types.  They are more typical looking.  Just really big.  

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14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

love for him to get a big 150 inch 8 point.

I do too. Elite sized 8’s are really cool.  Hope y’all see some. 

15 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

My buddies place doesn’t have a bunch of crazy ass 30 point types.  They are more typical looking.  Just really big.

That place was mostly the same. Their breeder for years was a slick 10. Then another but with a drop.  Nothing with palmation or anything.  

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13 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I do too. Elite sized 8’s are really cool.  Hope y’all see some. 

That place was mostly the same. Their breeder for years was a slick 10. Then another but with a drop.  Nothing with palmation or anything.  

I prefer the typical kinds.  Kind of.  My ideal deer is a ten point frame with mule deer type forked g2s

i passed up a monster one almost 20 years ago.  Thought he needed a year.  He avoided me for years.  Found him dead 4 years later.  He had gone downhill and still went 175.  

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16 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’ll probably let my ten year old bust a cull.  I’d love for him to get a big 150 inch 8 point.  I just love how those look. 

My buddies place doesn’t have a bunch of crazy ass 30 point types.  They are more typical looking.  Just really big.  

Ruined.  Forever.

@ 10yrs old I was happy to punch a jack-rabbit with my single-shot 22lr. or catch a dove slipping with my H&R .410

Sounds like a blast!  

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24 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Ruined.  Forever.

@ 10yrs old I was happy to punch a jack-rabbit with my single-shot 22lr. or catch a dove slipping with my H&R .410

Sounds like a blast!  

I apparently can’t rep today, but I was thinking the same thing. Then I remembered they have the ranches and MLD and deer hunt a ton, so the kid will kill ALOT before it’s said and done.  Hell I was 30 yo before I killed a 150.  Good luck to Sack Jr.  I have seen buddies kids who kill a huge buck early then once it doesn’t continue, get frustrated. I doubt that would be the situation here, tho. 
 

Conversating with a vendor yesterday about their place and Los Cazadores came up. I went back to look for my last trip to Muy but they don’t archive back that far :(  Note: do not peruse the Cazadores and Muy sites if you currently don’t have a place to hunt.  There are some beautiful deer coming in this year. 

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5 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I apparently can’t rep today, but I was thinking the same thing. Then I remembered they have the ranches and MLD and deer hunt a ton, so the kid will kill ALOT before it’s said and done.  Hell I was 30 yo before I killed a 150.  Good luck to Sack Jr.  I have seen buddies kids who kill a huge buck early then once it doesn’t continue, get frustrated. I doubt that would be the situation here, tho. 
 

Conversating with a vendor yesterday about their place and Los Cazadores came up. I went back to look for my last trip to Muy but they don’t archive back that far :(  Note: do not peruse the Cazadores and Muy sites if you currently don’t have a place to hunt.  There are some beautiful deer coming in this year. 

I’ve killed so many culls in my day.  Pretty much all I do.  The trophies hanging on my wall aren’t that impressive.  I do have a bunch of really nice 8s though.  And i love those.  

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My companies owners took the day off to go to the company lease in South Texas. Guess who finished his work and got to his ranch in time to hop in a blind.

Now if I can get this stupid bee to leave my whiskey alone I will be set.

Good luck this weekend gents!

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1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’ve killed so many culls in my day.  Pretty much all I do.  The trophies hanging on my wall aren’t that impressive.  I do have a bunch of really nice 8s though.  And i love those.  

For me, it's culls or my own Holy Grail -- a drop tine buck.  I have no other interest in horn hunting now.

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On 11/14/2019 at 12:49 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Just cannot get into shooting a breeder buck.  Not my thing.

 

Totally agree.  When they have a tag or a chip, it's just like shooting a cow in a pasture.  Hunting ought to be different than a feedlot slaughterhouse.  I am not a fan of high fences.

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2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I took my son out of school as a surprise at 10 am.  Sitting in a stand near Freer.   Life is good fellas.  

Kudos to you. I loved it every time my dad did that. I’ll pass it on to my son when he’s ready.

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I was out of town last weekend for the duck opener and took kids out the Saturday before that for the youth weekend, so I haven't pulled a trigger on anything yet.
Decided to head to my place last night so I could get in some deer hunting today before some guys come to hunt ducks with me tomorrow.
I knew I had some good horns roaming around but with the rut going on I wasn't sure what might show up.
I get out this morning and choose to sit in the tree stand, rather than the platform blind. Just had a feeling the bucks were going to be closer to the woods over there.
I get all set and 7:30 rolls around, feeder goes off (which I don't know why that always scares the piss out of me even though I know its coming) and still no deer. Now, being that there is not a large deer population here in the Trinity River Bottoms they don't come running to the dinner bell like other places.
Slowly some does hit the food plot and start making their way to the feeder. They were very wary and slide off into the woods where there was a young buck that started chasing them. Well this happened off and on all morning with younger bucks trying to get some.
Then around 10:30 as there were 2 does at the feeder, this buck comes crashing in from the tall grass, grunting twice. I knew he was a mature deer with a good rack but there wasn't going to be anytime to check him out. He has his head down, neck out like a turtle and the does took off so he was about to follow them. Luckily, I had my gun sitting across my lap.
I got him in the cross hairs. He momentarily stopped and I popped him. He hunched over and started running off on 3 legs. I could see I had a fatal shot right behind the shoulder but I didn't want him going far so I put another round into him. He fell in his tracks.
Not the biggest body or width I've taken off my place but he has some characteristics. He is all broken up or he would have had 15 points but instead only has 12.
I checked his teeth, which he had none except the back two molars.
Now, going to stack up some mallards tomorrow morning as I went by the wetlands and about 75 of them lifted off from there. d8e288d74e21b6fa0f5b031a06df3a6f.jpg37c54e4959f5ebd40c1d2f51c9e63c14.jpg9b72d210504e63250f263f4080cba690.jpg

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14 hours ago, HOOKEM4 said:

My companies owners took the day off to go to the company lease in South Texas. Guess who finished his work and got to his ranch in time to hop in a blind.

Now if I can get this stupid bee to leave my whiskey alone I will be set.

Good luck this weekend gents!

Drink your whisky, dummy. 

Good luck this weekend.  

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33 degrees, no clouds, stars and moon out, sun rising and in #9.  Coffee in hand, .270 at the ready, poop already out.   

Enjoy your hunts this weekend, lads. 

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12 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Totally agree.  When they have a tag or a chip, it's just like shooting a cow in a pasture.  Hunting ought to be different than a feedlot slaughterhouse.  I am not a fan of high fences.

The chase is the same high fenced or low fenced so long as the place is big enough.  High fences just stop the neighbor with 30 acres from putting out 8 stands and feeders and shooting everything that’s brown.  People like that really hate high fences.  

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So we keep heaters and butane in all our blinds at my place.  So I don’t have one at the house.  I go to academy when they open yesterday to pick one up.  Open it up this morning and all that’s in it is the stand.  Not the heater.  Damnit.  Cold blind this morning.  I have gotten used to the heaters.  

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3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

The chase is the same high fenced or low fenced so long as the place is big enough.  High fences just stop the neighbor with 30 acres from putting out 8 stands and feeders and shooting everything that’s brown.  People like that really hate high fences.  

I have a friend (that posts here) with some family land up in Limestone county. They do the best they can to manage and shoot deer of age.  Their neighbors, lol.  As of last week, a neighbor with a postage stamp they talked to has taken 5 deer between 3 hunters.   A deer for every few acres. 

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3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

The chase is the same high fenced or low fenced so long as the place is big enough.  High fences just stop the neighbor with 30 acres from putting out 8 stands and feeders and shooting everything that’s brown.  People like that really hate high fences.  

Your point is well-taken.  There are so many 200-300 acre (or less) high-fenced places in Central Texas and the hill country.  That's what I'm not crazy about.  High fencing totally makes sense as a defensive strategy on big ranches.

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