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Armybrat

Congratulations to the UK...

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3 hours ago, Armybrat said:

I do support the Scottish independence movement. As long as we are fucking Boris, how about running a no lube train on that dipshit nutcase Corbyn..... just to be fair. Yes on the others too. And let Hawaii vote on independence too while we are at it. 

 

You can be there for Texas secession 

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24 minutes ago, Hate said:

 


Pretty racist.

It was more of an act of xenophobia.

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I wish we still had Hong Kong. But realistically there was no way that could have happened.

 

And to add to the anecdotal snippets in this thread, we have about a dozen and a half close family and friends we've spoken to about brexit. Most supported remain. But there are highly highly educated people - and good people- on both sides.

 

 

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There's already a substantial list of businesses who've left England or announced a future move because of Brexit - Barclays Bank, a Honda plant, and many more MNCs. The shit will hit the fan when/if Airbus moves its operation from Filton, where they manufacturer wings. British pensioners were a major beneficiary of the EU - they could relocate to far less expensive EU countries and up to 2 million people have done so. Many will be able to stay but not so for younger Brits. England profited tremendously by importing cheap labor from especially Poland. England doesn't offer much to the US in terms of potential imports, and there's a huge imbalance in economic power between our 2 countries, they make or grow almost nothing that the US would want, therefore they're not going to fare well in negotiating a trade pact with the US. In short, rah rah english pride and all, but they are going to take a beating of their morale and economically, as well. Even Farage and Johnson know this - that's why they kept economic forecasts secret before the most recent election, and why they resisted having a yes/no vote on Brexit once the terms of Brexit were clear as were the many, many problems their country is going face. Fuck 'em.

Edited by Chopper

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1 hour ago, Chopper said:

There's already a substantial list of businesses who've left England or announced a future move because of Brexit - Barclays Bank, a Honda plant, and many more MNCs. The shit will hit the fan when/if Airbus moves its operation from Filton, where they manufacturer wings. British pensioners were a major beneficiary of the EU - they could relocate to far less expensive EU countries and up to 2 million people have done so. Many will be able to stay but not so for younger Brits. England profited tremendously by importing cheap labor from especially Poland. England doesn't offer much to the US in terms of potential imports, and there's a huge imbalance in economic power between our 2 countries, they make or grow almost nothing that the US would want, therefore they're not going to fare well in negotiating a trade pact with the US. In short, rah rah english pride and all, but they are going to take a beating of their morale and economically, as well. Even Farage and Johnson know this - that's why they kept economic forecasts secret before the most recent election, and why they resisted having a yes/no vote on Brexit once the terms of Brexit were clear as were the many, many problems their country is going face. Fuck 'em.

A lot of people will die.  Hopefully the death toll is less than the bodies in the street from the repeal of net neutrality 

Edited by Johnny Sack

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Nationalists have to be the most unintentionally hilarious people out there.

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1 hour ago, G650 said:

Nationalists have to be the most unintentionally hilarious people out there.

Putin & Farage: "We are british nationalists. Our british values and traditions were co-opted by an evil foreign empire, the European Union, but that will now terminate. Also we want to give a huge thank you to Putin and Russia for their tremendous help in achieving this great Brexit. Thankfully we're not under the EU health and safety regulation any longer. And we will have a trade agreement with the EU very soon to keep our economy flowing. Please, fellow patriots, pay no attention when we accept the very same health and safety regulations that we've been complaining about for they will allow us to continue trade with Europe."

Four years ago the far right thanks to a huge assist from Russia was able to whip up anti-EU sentiment and the torys forced the most simplistic vote possible, a way for the British people to express dissatisfaction with the failings of their own government without actually blaming their own government. The whole purpose of which was to help Russia weaken a cohesive EU. Well done, chaps!

They had a powerful role within the EU, for a variety of cultural and historical reasons, particularly because they were the main political and corporate link between the EU and the US . Now, pffffft. They're nothing, they have little to offer the world, and will be even more irrelevant when Scotland and N. Ireland figure out how to divorce themselves from the so-called empire.

Edited by Chopper

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23 hours ago, G650 said:

Usually you are right, but in this case it is very simple. It's bad. Period.

 

One thing people need to understand it's not just about Brexit. Brexit is merely the culmination of 40 odd years of terrible foreign policy decisions by Great Britain in its relationship with Europe.

It’s never their fault. It’s always someone else. The immigrants and za Germans and that bitch Hilary ... ehem ... sorry Merkel.

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It’s never their fault. It’s always someone else. The immigrants and za Germans and that bitch Hilary ... ehem ... sorry Merkel.


You forgot Russia and Putin.

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10 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

A lot of people will die.  Hopefully the death toll is less than the bodies in the street from the repeal of net neutrality 

The English forests will be filled with dead bodies in trees too.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan

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2 hours ago, Chopper said:

Putin & Farage: "We are british nationalists. Our british values and traditions were co-opted by an evil foreign empire, the European Union, but that will now terminate. Also we want to give a huge thank you to Putin and Russia for their tremendous help in achieving this great Brexit. Thankfully we're not under the EU health and safety regulation any longer. And we will have a trade agreement with the EU very soon to keep our economy flowing. Please, fellow patriots, pay no attention when we accept the very same health and safety regulations that we've been complaining about for they will allow us to continue trade with Europe."

Four years ago the far right thanks to a huge assist from Russia was able to whip up anti-EU sentiment and the torys forced the most simplistic vote possible, a way for the British people to express dissatisfaction with the failings of their own government without actually blaming their own government. The whole purpose of which was to help Russia weaken a cohesive EU. Well done, chaps!

They had a powerful role within the EU, for a variety of cultural and historical reasons, particularly because they were the main political and corporate link between the EU and the US . Now, pffffft. They're nothing, they have little to offer the world, and will be even more irrelevant when Scotland and N. Ireland figure out how to divorce themselves from the so-called empire.

This seems contradictory. If you are worried about Russia and believe that Brexit will prove disastrous for the UK, then you would support the UK - not take the attitude “Fuck ‘em.” A weakened UK helps Russia, harms the United States. On the one hand you express concern for Russian interference in Western democracy. On the other you appear to advocate for a policy approach that would benefit Russia (the UK made their bed now let them sleep in it).

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1 minute ago, Bruno Sardine said:

This seems contradictory. If you are worried about Russia and believe that Brexit will prove disastrous for the UK, then you would support the UK - not take the attitude “Fuck ‘em.” A weakened UK helps Russia, harms the United States. On the one hand you express concern for Russian interference in Western democracy. On the other you appear to advocate for a policy approach that would benefit Russia (the UK made their bed now let them sleep in it).

What exactly would you have me do about the UK? The people who collaborated with Russia WON. They are in charge. Sure the Labour party was unbelievably stupid and nominated a moron. I could do nothing about that either. It's really an unbelievable circumstance. However, they've made their bed and fucked themselves. Good luck to 'em. They'll need it. 

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2 minutes ago, Chopper said:

What exactly would you have me do about the UK? The people who collaborated with Russia WON. They are in charge. Sure the Labour party was unbelievably stupid and nominated a moron. I could do nothing about that either. It's really an unbelievable circumstance. However, they've made their bed and fucked themselves. Good luck to 'em. They'll need it. 

That's a really short-term perspective. I would have you take a longer-term perspective. Who's to say the Labour party won't win again someday? If you have an affinity for the Labour party, assume this will happen. Then craft your foreign and trade policy accordingly, with an eye towards the day the UK becomes a country you admire again. 

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21 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

That's a really short-term perspective. I would have you take a longer-term perspective. Who's to say the Labour party won't win again someday? If you have an affinity for the Labour party, assume this will happen. Then craft your foreign and trade policy accordingly, with an eye towards the day the UK becomes a country you admire again. 

I'm an American. I care much more about western democracy getting its ass kicked over and over by Russia than about the Labour party. Perhaps in ten years the English government will regain its sanity. I care nothing whether England is abandoned by Scotland and/or N. Ireland. Perhaps the Labour party will one day soon find themselves a competent, sane leader. But there is no way brexit turns out to be an economic plus for England. Perhaps it will, in the long run, benefit Scotland or N Ireland if they step away from the UK, I don't know. I guess unless the US went out of its way to provide them massive subsidies but I wouldn't support that and neither would most Americans. They are going to pay a severe economic price. They're likely whither on the vine until they figure out a plan. They have no plan right now. 

Edited by Chopper

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Where is the proof that Russia is interfering, and the proof the people who weren't gonna vote Brexit does after seeing a Russian add?

Edited by workswithseed

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14 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Where is the proof that Russia is interfering, and the proof the people who weren't gonna vote Brexit does after seeing a Russian add?

I'm pretty sure you could use the google to learn about it. The US Senate, led by Republicans by the way, even investigated and did a report, as understated as it was. Boris Johnson's party did an investigation and then buried the report. Even if you believe Russia's financial aid to certain brits and their poliitical organizations was of no benefit, you might want to wonder why the british government insisted on hiding their own economic assessments of the Brexit impact, and why they withstood holding another vote that would lay out the specifics of how Brexit was to proceed. The actual terms of Brexit ended up being far, far different than what they had promised in the only Brexit referendum, held in 2016.

Edited by Chopper

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13 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Where is the proof that Russia is interfering, and the proof the people who weren't gonna vote Brexit does after seeing a Russian add?

Duh, they saw it on Facebook and then voted accordingly. Don't you realize that nobody has any preconceived notion about how they will vote until they've seen all of the ads on Facebook.  

Edited by Hate

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Advertisements, bribes, blackmail and propaganda do not work. Duh. That's why nobody does it.

Edited by Chopper

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3 minutes ago, Hate said:

Duh, they saw it on Facebook and then voted accordingly. Don't you realize that nobody has any preconceived notion about how they will vote until they've seen all of the ads on Facebook.  

That's my thinking, I've been hearing this for years, and no one answered how many changed thier minds after seeing a Russian ad.

 

1 minute ago, Chopper said:

Advertisements, bribes, blackmail and propaganda do not work. Duh. That's why nobody does it.

That's a lot of voters to do that to in America.

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2 minutes ago, Chopper said:
Just now, workswithseed said:

That's my thinking, I've been hearing this for years, and no one answered how many changed thier minds after seeing a Russian ad.

 

That's a lot of voters to do that to in America.

 

It worked on armybrat

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19 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I'm an American. I care much more about western democracy getting its ass kicked over and over by Russia than about the Labour party. Perhaps in ten years the English government will regain its sanity. I care nothing whether England is abandoned by Scotland and/or N. Ireland. Perhaps the Labour party will one day soon find themselves a competent, sane leader. But there is no way brexit turns out to be an economic plus for them. I guess unless the US went out of its way to provide them massive subsidies but I wouldn't support that and neither would most Americans. They are going to pay a severe economic price. They're likely whither on the vine until they figure out a plan. They have no plan right now. 

Fair enough. I agree with you about Scotland and Northern Ireland. Could care less. Also agree with your opposition to massive subsidies. 

President Obama stated that not only would the UK not receive preferential treatment in the event of Brexit, but that they would go to the “back of the queue.” I disagree with this approach. I don’t think it behooves the US to rub salt in the UK’s wounds, regardless of one’s feelings about Brexit. If you are correct in your predictions, then it is in our best long-term interest to take a benevolent as opposed to a punitive approach in our dealings with the UK. 
 

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2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

He was most likely gonna vote conservative, what would the ad do?

Have him to vote for a non conservative?

Edited by Michael Knight

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6 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

If you are correct in your predictions, then it is in our best long-term interest to take a benevolent as opposed to a punitive approach in our dealings with the UK. 

 

They don't have many goods the US import market, or any country really, would have interest in. They're even a small piece of the EU's overall imports. Their main value was they were a natural location for US companies who wanted to reach European markets, and for European countries who wanted to reach Western markets. Unless something extremely dramatic and unexpected happens with the trade negotiations between the EU and England, they will no longer have that.

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I'm surprised that the English haven't consulted with Surly on Brexit. The confident prognostication on here is amazing. 

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4 hours ago, G650 said:

Nationalists have to be the most unintentionally hilarious people out there.

What about CNNists?

 

Edited by clapclapclap
Be of good cheer, Punxsutawney Phil just predicted 6 more weeks of impeachment

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48 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

President Obama stated that not only would the UK not receive preferential treatment in the event of Brexit, but that they would go to the “back of the queue.” I disagree with this approach.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the main point of what he was saying was that trade agreements take time. Working out a trade deal with the EU would be England's first priority post-Brexit, as well as dealing with N Ireland and Scotland. And the US has its own trade priorities. Trade deals take time, usually years, to work out and England in particular are going to be especially busy.

22 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Is there a Brit version of Fox news? Because im thinking the idiots in that country may suffer the same propaganda ours do.

Murdoch owned Sky News but I understand he sold it about a year ago to Comcast, right about the same time he sold most of the rest of his company to Disney. However unlike the US English society is still very much about newspapers and he still owns several of the largest british newspapers/tabloids. Also their newspapers seem to be largely controlled by Murdoch and 1 or 2 other billionaires. As opposed to our news, which is controlled by a few multi national corporations.

Edited by Chopper

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Enough of this bullshit about Brexit being a Russian con job. Listen to what Farage said in his videos. Britain signed up to a part of the European common market. That is what he and everyone else pro-Brexit wants. The EU bureaucratic monster keeps getting worse and, as he mentioned, they want to have a standing fucking army. How ridiculous was it that they can’t even have their national flags at the EU parliament. The globalists in Brussels didn’t even care to consider how the free flow of people, one of the pillars of the EU monster, would impact countries both economically and with respect to social cohesion. They let in significantly poorer countries like Greece, Poland, etc into the club which created a pool of cheap labor to come to the U.K. If I was a Brit, regaining full control of the country’s immigration policy would be worth doing Brexit alone.

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1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

How ridiculous was it that they can’t even have their national flags at the EU parliament.

Horrible. I'm misting up at how horrible that must have been. Heading to a rage room. Back later.

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2 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

And stupid. I was born here.

Anchor baby.

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2 hours ago, Chopper said:

Perhaps it will, in the long run, benefit Scotland or N Ireland if they step away from the UK, I don't know. I guess unless the US went out of its way to provide them massive subsidies but I wouldn't support that and neither would most Americans.

Northern Ireland will not need assistance if they join the Republic of Ireland. However if they did need assistance the U.S. would provide whatever help they needed. The Irish-American lobby has a shit ton of influence in both political parties.

The Scots on the other hand...

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1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Yeah but can anchor babies really be Americans?

Nope. Need at least 100 years of family history in the U.S. to qualify as a true blue American.

Everyone knows immigrants and their anchors babies don't count.

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3 hours ago, Bruno Sardine said:

Who's to say the Labour party won't win again someday?

God I fucking hope not.

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1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Glad Brits weren’t feckless cucks for the EU.   They will be fine.  Don will cut a deal with them ASAP 

Okay you got me. Was that parody or projection?

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