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Luka Doncic


Goo Punch

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First, he did just get hurt again, but it looks like that he's going to be ok despite taking a pretty fucking bad fall. He's back in the locker room, and he may be concussed, but ultimately it looks like he'll be ok.

Now then, let's talk about him as a player- dude is unbelievable. He's the best young player since LeBron and it's not close. He's like a Magic/Larry hybrid. He could be the face of the league within a few years if he can stay healthy. What a player.

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18 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

Doncic is on a different level this year but I don’t think he’ll ever be on Dirk level

In skill level or fan love? Not sure what this means but Luka is showing out again in his second year. Young and progressing. Legit asking what won't he do that Dirk did? 

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5 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

In skill level or fan love? Not sure what this means but Luka is showing out again in his second year. Young and progressing. Legit asking what won't he do that Dirk did? 

Fan love is growing for Luka but he doesn’t have a street named after him. Also considering dirk was able to put up 7 blocks against the nuggets in 2006 when many players were at their peak in talent shows how much of a defensive presence he was and I just don’t see Luka being as capable as two-way player as Dirk was year in and year out.

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15 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

Fan love is growing for Luka but he doesn’t have a street named after him. Also considering dirk was able to put up 7 blocks against the nuggets in 2006 when many players were at their peak in talent shows how much of a defensive presence he was and I just don’t see Luka being as capable as two-way player as Dirk was year in and year out.

Interesting that Kentucky’s OC posts on surly.

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He's already better than Dirk at nearly everything. I know that's hard for a lot of people to swallow for some reason, but it's true. He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

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1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

He's already better than Dirk at nearly everything. I know that's hard for a lot of people to swallow for some reason, but it's true. He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

Terrible take. Go to bed. 

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4 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

He's already better than Dirk at nearly everything. I know that's hard for a lot of people to swallow for some reason, but it's true. He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

 

6 minutes ago, ramblin’ man said:

Terrible take. Go to bed. 

By saying he is already better than dirk I assume championships mean nothing to you?

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25 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

Fan love is growing for Luka but he doesn’t have a street named after him. Also considering dirk was able to put up 7 blocks against the nuggets in 2006 when many players were at their peak in talent shows how much of a defensive presence he was and I just don’t see Luka being as capable as two-way player as Dirk was year in and year out.

Yes I do believe he won't get 7 blocks ever but the dude is a baller and still growing. He hasn't shown any sophomore slump and had made the team better. No way the Mavs should be where they are this season record but he is solely responsible. Gonna keep breaking records as well

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18 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

 

By saying he is already better than dirk I assume championships mean nothing to you?

when talking about whether or not one player has more skills than another player? no, they don't mean anything to me at all. Dirk is currently the greatest European player ever, and probably a top 20-ish all time guy. hats off to him. Luka is still a better basketball player.

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8 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

Obviously one game doesn’t define a career but Luka being a better player than a  21 year veteran and a 14x all star based off of 1 1/2 seasons is blasphemous 

what do Dirk's career accomplishments have to do with anything here? by your logic Terry Bradshaw is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino, Pat Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, etc... we're talking about the ability to play basketball, not career accomplishments. 

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11 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

when talking about whether or not one player has more skills than another player? no, they don't mean anything to me at all. Dirk is currently the greatest European player ever, and probably a top 20-ish all time guy. hats off to him. Luka is still a better basketball player.

My meaning by “Dirk level” is the ability for Dirk to constantly lead his team to the playoffs year in and year out no matter who was around him. I’m not arguing won’t reach that level I just haven’t seen it yet since individual stats don’t reflect playoff success 

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12 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

what do Dirk's career accomplishments have to do with anything here? by your logic Terry Bradshaw is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino, Pat Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, etc... we're talking about the ability to play basketball, not career accomplishments. 

A different sport leads to a different discussion.

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5 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

My meaning by “Dirk level” is the ability for Dirk to constantly lead his team to the playoffs year in and year out no matter who was around him. I’m not arguing won’t reach that level I just haven’t seen it yet since individual stats don’t reflect playoff success 

He’s only ever missed the nba playoffs once in his entire career. 

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13 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

A different sport leads to a different discussion.

not here. it's 100% analogous. we're supposed to be talking about which player has better basketball skills, yet you guys all keep countering with arguments about career accomplishments because you can't argue that Luka isn't a better basketball player than Dirk. it's the exact same thing as comparing Mahomes to Bradshaw. One is *clearly* a better football player than the other, and career accomplishments have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. 

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3 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

not here. it's 100% analogous. we're supposed to be talking about which player has better basketball skills, yet you guys all keep countering with arguments about career accomplishments because you can't argue that Luka isn't a better basketball player than Dirk. it's the exact same thing as comparing Mahomes to Bradshaw. One is *clearly* a better football player than the other, and career accomplishments have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. 

I bet you’re fun at dinner parties. 

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5 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

not here. it's 100% analogous. we're supposed to be talking about which player has better basketball skills, yet you guys all keep countering with arguments about career accomplishments because you can't argue that Luka isn't a better basketball player than Dirk. it's the exact same thing as comparing Mahomes to Bradshaw. One is *clearly* a better football player than the other, and career accomplishments have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. 

Once again the meaning of “Dirk level” is not purely based off skill but based off of overall career goals and legacy which Luka has not matched.

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14 minutes ago, Eddie Gran said:

Once again the meaning of “Dirk level” is not purely based off skill but based off of overall career goals and legacy which Luka has not matched.

dude, you quoted me. we are not talking about your "dirk level" statement. we never have been. we are talking about which one is a better basketball player. i'm not entertaining this anymore tonight. jesus. it's basic reading comprehension.

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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

He's already better than Dirk at nearly everything. I know that's hard for a lot of people to swallow for some reason, but it's true. He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

ok thats just dumb

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At this very moment Luka would better than Dirk at playing basketball. I don't know what that tells us, but it's a technically true.

correct mood GIF

Seriously though, top 10 discussion is a bit much. To see that theory drawn out WAY further that it should be, we must revive the All-Time Fantasy Draft

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9 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

He’s only ever missed the nba playoffs once in his entire career. 

Are you talking about Dirk? Because he has definitely missed the playoffs more than once. They missed his last 3 years. And then in 2013. And early in his career. If you are talking about someone else, carry on.

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You want a counter argument to your opinion that a second year player is better than an all time great? 

Here it is: He's not. He mostly definitely might be when all is said and done. What if he turns out like Derrick Rose instead? 

Maybe give it a few years or ten before stating premature opinions as unquestionable facts. 

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This is a weird argument, Derka. There are dozens--shit, hundreds--of players throughout NBA history who are technically more skilled as basketball players than Shaq...who gives a shit? Apart from a dozen or so all-time greats, no one would argue that they are better basketball players. "Better" isn't a vacuum; accomplishments, dominance, and postseason reputation have to matter.

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I don't think it's preposterous to say Luka's skill set at this point in time is better than Dirk's was at any point of his career. Obviously a player's greatness takes more than that in to consideration which is why no one is saying luka is greater than Dirk right now. But in terms of shooting, rebounding, scoring, assists... I think Luka is better. Can he take an entire team on his shoulders and will his way to a championship? Can he sustain that level over 2 decades? Remains to be seen.

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23 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

You want a counter argument to your opinion that a second year player is better than an all time great? 

Here it is: He's not. He mostly definitely might be when all is said and done. What if he turns out like Derrick Rose instead? 

Maybe give it a few years or ten before stating premature opinions as unquestionable facts. 

is this a bit, or do you seriously not understand what the hell we're actually talking about here?

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This sort of reminds me of when Grant Hill first came into the league. At the time, there were many people wanting to make the argument that Grant Hill was a better all-around basketball player than Michael Jordan. Even if their argument did technically have some merit, again, who cares? And how do you quantify MJ's force of will, competitiveness, and dependability in the biggest moments? Let's let a play out a bit.

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21 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

I don't think it's preposterous to say Luka's skill set at this point in time is better than Dirk's was at any point of his career. Obviously a player's greatness takes more than that in to consideration which is why no one is saying luka is greater than Dirk right now. But in terms of shooting, rebounding, scoring, assists... I think Luka is better. Can he take an entire team on his shoulders and will his way to a championship? Can he sustain that level over 2 decades? Remains to be seen.

I don’t think it’s preposterous at all. I would say it’s pretty obvious. There hasn’t been a 20 year old player in the league this good since Lebron was 20. Straight up.

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7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

This sort of reminds me of when Grant Hill first came into the league. At the time, there were many people wanting to make the argument that Grant Hill was a better all-around basketball player than Michael Jordan. Even if their argument did technically have some merit, again, who cares? And how do you quantify MJ's force of will, competitiveness, and dependability in the biggest moments? Let's let a play out a bit.

I agreee

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yeah well that was Jordan. This is Dirk. talk about apples and oranges. for as much as he meant to Dallas and as much as he accomplished in his career, he was never any sort of transcendent talent. Luka Doncic is. and again, literally nobody has made the case that Luka is a greater player than Dirk, yet many, many people keep ignoring that and replying as if they have. Neither point should be contended by anybody, and yet here we are.

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19 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

yeah well that was Jordan. This is Dirk. talk about apples and oranges. for as much as he meant to Dallas and as much as he accomplished in his career, he was never any sort of transcendent talent. Luka Doncic is. and again, literally nobody has made the case that Luka is a greater player than Dirk, yet many, many people keep ignoring that and replying as if they have. Neither point should be contended by anybody, and yet here we are.

 

he completely changed how front court players play the game.  #6 in scoring all time.  carried two teams to the championships, one of which beat wade/lebron/bosh and another which should have beat shaq and peak wade.   

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To simplify this--and because I understand what Derka is ultimately getting it--if Game 7 of the NBA Finals was tomorrow and I had to pick between Luka today and Dirk at his peak...I'd pick Dirk everyday of the week, and twice on Sundays. To me, that makes him a better basketball player, despite the larger skillset that Luka posseses.

Ask me in a couple of years and my answer might be [probably will be] different.

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2 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

I don't think it's preposterous to say Luka's skill set at this point in time is better than Dirk's was at any point of his career. Obviously a player's greatness takes more than that in to consideration which is why no one is saying luka is greater than Dirk right now. But in terms of shooting, rebounding, scoring, assists... I think Luka is better. Can he take an entire team on his shoulders and will his way to a championship? Can he sustain that level over 2 decades? Remains to be seen.

Agree with this, and I think that's what Derka was getting at.

I'm as big a Dirk fan (and unapologetic Dirk homer) as there is, and I don't have any issue with the OP.  As a Mavs fan it's actually a pretty fucking good thing to hear if you think about it.

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2 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

yeah well that was Jordan. This is Dirk. talk about apples and oranges. for as much as he meant to Dallas and as much as he accomplished in his career, he was never any sort of transcendent talent. Luka Doncic is. and again, literally nobody has made the case that Luka is a greater player than Dirk, yet many, many people keep ignoring that and replying as if they have. Neither point should be contended by anybody, and yet here we are.

Yea gotta take issue here. Dirk was absolutely a transcendent talent. He completely invented a player type that has never existed in NBA history. His teams were also early adopters of the space and pace that we see today and much of that was dependent on Dirks ability to stretch the floor.

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1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

To simplify this--and because I understand what Derka is ultimately getting it--if Game 7 of the NBA Finals was tomorrow and I had to pick between Luka today and Dirk at his peak...I'd pick Dirk everyday of the week, and twice on Sundays. To me, that makes him a better basketball player, despite the larger skillset that Luka posseses.

Ask me in a couple of years and my answer might be [probably will be] different.

This 100%.

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