Jump to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

Surly Horns

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.
Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business & Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Advertise... Tailgate Donations

Featured Replies

3 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Good reason for people to move from the more populated states to the less populated. 

North Dakota needs every advantage it can get.

I wonder if California bitched this much about having 2 senators back when they had a whole 92,000 people.

  • Replies 23.3k
  • Views 1.4m
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Most Popular Posts

  • Huckleberry
    Huckleberry

    No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

  • henrygandorf
    henrygandorf

    i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

  • Bill Clinton
    Bill Clinton

    3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

Posted Images

it's been a week and a half. I'm not going to start crying yet, but if this trend continues I'm going to have to abandon hope (again) and just be a jolly court jester as the nation continues to sink

 

But, Beto O'Dork did parkour in a Starbucks!  Isn't that good for a bounce?  

/warrenSNL 

It’s early. Too early to worry.

Was really cool of Biden to launch his campaign during the same time the public was looking at the Mueller Report.  “Way to go Joe!  Way to give the worst news of Trump’s presidency the perfect distraction.  Your old dumbass.”

sooo... things going well for Joe Biden? 🤨

I'm curious why Hickenlooper doesn't make y'alls' lists of candidates, especially since moderates are in short supply.

Because his fucking name is Hickenlooper.

Blacks generally aren't inclined to vote for atheist Jews (Bernie), old white women (Warren), gays (Mayor Pete) or whatever the fuck Beto is.  Biden's support among blacks will only increase when Harris and Booker inevitably drop out.  

Moderate whites want a moderate white who they perceive has the best chance to beat Trump.  That's Biden.

It's a tough spot for the candidates other than Bernie.  They aren't going to "out-progressive" the OG progressive in Bernie or make many inroads with blacks (assuming that Harris is not considered a viable candidate).  Good luck clamoring back to the right to pick up the moderates who just want to depose Trump.

Joe "I hate Millennials" Biden at the head of the pack

Democratic Party withholding support from primary challengers

I am shocked, SHOCKED, that young Democrats are pissed.

Quote

Sixty-eight chapters of the College Democrats are urging voters not to donate to the party’s congressional-campaign arm after it instituted a new policy to protect incumbents from primary challenges. The protesting students say that the change will deter young candidates and people from historically marginalized communities from running for office. Their outrage isn’t just noteworthy because they represent younger voters in the electorate—these young people are also some of the party’s key organizers and activists.

...

Another potential problem the students have expressed is keeping young people engaged. “The next generation of grassroots activists and organizers are really not happy with the way the Democratic Party is conducting itself,” Pearce says. If the party makes it harder to challenge incumbents, they’ll also make it harder for young people looking for change to feel excited about a candidate. “When we have younger voices and voices that better represent young people, they’re more likely to vote,” says Georgie Swan, who will serve as president of the Mississippi State College Democrats in the fall.

 

Beto has to dramatically improve his numbers in IA and NH because he is going to get pummeled in SC.  Beto's numbers in NH have been weak (3%) since the Butt boost and he has hovered around 5% in Iowa for months.    

Biden senility is also a possible opening.  I have no idea who would be best positioned to move into the breach.


Because his fucking name is Hickenlooper.


And he admitted to watching porn with his MOM.

Look, there is a significant portion of liberals that will not fall in line with Biden as the nominee. People can bitch about it all they want, but going from a "totally shitty" POTUS to a "kinda shitty" alternative will not inspire people to go to the polls, especially the younger generation. 

At some point there will be a serious push back to Biden. It just pisses me off that we're basing all Joe's momentum on questionable polling numbers this far out when I literally haven't met one person that seriously supports him. 

 

 

Can't wait to choose between a quixotic geriatric that's further left than like 90% of the population and the most status quo, beltway cynic person possible, who is also a geriatric and further right than the majority of people born after 1970.

 

Great work Dems. Either will probably beat Trump but still terrible.

 

 

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Can't wait to choose between a quixotic geriatric that's further left than like 90% of the population and the most status quo, beltway cynic person possible, who is also a geriatric and further right than the majority of people born after 1970.

 

Great work Dems. Either will probably beat Trump but still terrible.

All because Hillary was such a shitty candidate...amirite? 

Bernie is not left of 90% of the country. He's a New Deal Democrat.

The government is much further right than the voters.

4 minutes ago, troph said:


That’s just not true. Public sentiment and voter sentiment are not the same. Not sure your age but there are millions of older voters even democrats that don’t support Bernie’s and Warren’s positions - and the proof of that is Bernie not winning the Dem primary last time and HRC losing as well.

The last democratic poll crosstabs showed that 70+ percent of Democratic primary voters want either Obama-era left-right alignment, or more right. It was 17% (I think) that wanted left of Obama.

So 17% of Democrats = somewhere between 6 and 10 percent of the population. And that's assuming "left of Obama" means "Bernie", which I'd guess there are some that fall in between those two. Me, for example.

So yeah, it's about 90% that he's left of. We often forget that Surly and the internet communities are not even remotely representative of the general population of voters.

Edited by BradInATX

Hillary lost because people didn't like her. Had nothing to do with policy IMO. 

 

 

 

Hillary lost because Trump was an awesome candidate that lied and cheated his way to victory. 

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Hillary lost because people didn't like her. Had nothing to do with policy IMO. 

 

 

 

Correct. I didn't even respond to it because he already knows that.

Doubling down on a mistake by putting up the guy who lost to her, or basically the male version of her, is, well, exactly what you'd expect Democrats to do, because it's the worst thing possible.

Edited by BradInATX

2 minutes ago, troph said:

That’s just not true. Public sentiment and voter sentiment are not the same. Not sure your age but there are millions of older voters even democrats that don’t support Bernie’s and Warren’s positions -

He said "further left than like 90% of the population", which is absurd.

Medicare for All and Free College are broadly popular positions.

Quote

...and the proof of that is Bernie not winning the Dem primary last time and HRC losing as well.

Bernie was an absolute nobody whose "I'm running" press conference was attended by 4 reporters and some squirrels in a nearby tree. He ended up getting 43% of the Democratic primary voters and 13.2M votes. He polled higher against Trump than Clinton all the way up to the convention (when they stopped polling him v Trump).

He didn't win those with his youth, magnetic personality, charm, good looks, parkour skills, or talent show trophies. He was/is a hectoring old white man waggling his finger and repeating basically the same speeches and ideas he's been rambling on about for 800 years.

Sanders won votes ENTIRELY because of his positions. Positions that every single candidate running against him, with perhaps the exception of Klobuchar and Biden, copy/pasted for their 2020 platforms.

If he was left of 90% of the population, none of this would have happened.

It's a flat-out idiotic thing to say.

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Sanders won votes ENTIRELY because of his positions.

That's bullshit. 

1) He was seen as the most viable not-Clinton candidate

2) He's likeable and amusing

3) He provided strong thematic appeal to people's anger/issues

...

 

 

 

 

1000) Specific Positions

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's bullshit. 
1) He was seen as the most viable not-Clinton candidate

Late into 2015, sure, but why did that come about? Accident?

Quote

2) He's likeable and amusing

lol no

Quote

3) He provided strong thematic appeal to people's anger/issues

So his... positions.

lol

Bernie was appealing because he was an outsider.  It’s still his most competitive advantage.

No. Themes are not positions. Helping the working class is a theme. Punishing wall street is a theme.  Positions are detailed specifics. People in general care a great deal about the former and not much about the latter.

If you polled 100 Sanders supporters and asked them his policy proposal on prescription drug pricing, how many could tell you beyond a general idea of his desire to make them more affordable? 

Also - you don't think he's likable and amusing? That seems like a core part of his appeal.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bernie was appealing because he was an outsider.  It’s still his most competitive advantage.

And he's an outsider because of ...

wait for it...

his positions.

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

No. Themes are not positions. Helping the working class is a theme. Punishing wall street is a theme.  Positions are detailed specifics. People in general care a great deal about the former and not much about the latter.

Medicare for All, free college, and$15/hr minimum wage are broadly popular positions that Bernie spoke/speaks about incessantly.

Absolute garbage punditry.

Quote

If you polled 100 Sanders supporters and asked them his policy proposal on prescription drug pricing, how many could tell you beyond a general idea of his desire to make them more affordable? 

Basically all of them, given that Medicare for All is the #1 issue for Sanders people.

bozo is right in that I doubt many of his supporters could articulate details of his plan. For example what percentage of them know that his M4A plan includes a multi-trillion dollar handout to corporate America (Relax b_t, I'm messing with you).

But that's probably true of every candidate, Except for Liz Warren and her 3% of smart, informed voters. I think Bernie voters just generally see him as sticking up for the everyman, and to some lesser extent, giving them stuff. I don't think it's fair to say that his supporters are charisma-driven. I'd say he's less so than most others (Beto, for example).

Just now, BradInATX said:

I think Bernie voters just generally see him as sticking up for the everyman...

Why do they see him that way?

 

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

And he's an outsider because of ...

wait for it...

his positions.

I hate the Trump/Bernie comparisons but as far as the “outsider/disruptor” appeal, it fits.  Trump had policy positions too that weren’t really popular or well articulated but they appealed to the anger of the electorate with our broken system.  You have to concede Bernie has an “I alone can fix it” schtick.  The details aren’t exactly fleshed out for most people to easily understand.

Some people call this demagoguery 

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Why do they see him that way?

 

You and bozo aren't arguing the same thing, though. He's saying that most Bernie voters can't articulate the finer details of his policy (more than likely true), and you're saying that his voters grasp the general spirit and direction of his policies  (also true).

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate the Trump/Bernie comparisons but as far as the “outsider/disruptor” appeal, it fits.  Trump had policy positions too that weren’t really popular or well articulated but they appealed to the anger of the electorate with our broken system.  You have to concede Bernie has an “I alone can fix it” schtick.  The details aren’t exactly fleshed out for most people to easily understand.

Some people call this demagoguery 

The details are there, if you really want to know them.

But it's almost like "it's all right there on my web site!" isn't a strong way to get your message across.

Edited by BradInATX

Biden's numbers w/ black voters is crazy to me. Then again Hillary, who employed mostly black slave labor while in the Arkansas' governor mansion, cruised to victory due to minority support throughout the south.

 

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate the Trump/Bernie comparisons but as far as the “outsider/disruptor” appeal, it fits.  Trump had policy positions too that weren’t really popular or well articulated but they appealed to the anger of the electorate with our broken system.  You have to concede Bernie has an “I alone can fix it” schtick.  

Absolutely not.

His entire schtick is the need for a larger political revolution. When his campaign stopped in 2016 he started Our Revolution specifically to promote the policies he believes in and find younger candidates to promote those policies.

The "Trump = Bernie" crap is just exhaustingly stupid.

Quote

The details aren’t exactly fleshed out for most people to easily understand.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Sanders has filed legislation for this stuff already with co-sponsors and committee hearings.

You do not know what you are talking about.

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

He's saying that most Bernie voters can't articulate the finer details of his policy (more than likely true)

What does "finer details" even mean? Or matter? What voting base anywhere in the history of humankind has consisted of policy wonks who read all the legislation? I would wager that Bernie's voting base is far more conversant in policy than basically any voting base in the 2020 Dem primary.

Dem nominee for 2020 is a tough call, its a little touch and Joe at this point.

Edited by jdhorn92

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

The details are there, if you really want to know them.

But it's almost like "it's all right there on my web site!" isn't a strong way to get your message across.

If the details are good, he would sell those.  If his plans and ideas are awesome he would flaunt them and let them speak for themself.  Maybe he’s waiting to do that, I don’t know but running around promising free college and healthcare for all comes off as shit someone says to get elected.  

 The Democrats got in line to back carry in 2004 just like they got in line to support Hillary Clinton despite Bernie Sanders in 2016.    Just like so many campaigns before  

The only time the Democrats veered off script was to support Obama over Hillary in  2008 .     And they only did that because Hillary who was actually born and raised in Chicago   Forgot to address the Democratic machine in Chicago that controls national democratic politics    Something Obama paid very careful attention to despite having only lived there for a few years. 

 

 So I have no doubt you will all put aside your bullshit and back Joe Biden like you are fucking told .   You want independent thought? the GOP in the Democratic Party are not for you

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Basically all of them, given that Medicare for All is the #1 issue for Sanders people.

But that's NOT his position on prescription drug pricing. His major proposal on pricing is the prescription drub price relief act, a peg to the average of five other western countries. Thanks for making my point, though. Bring your shinebox along next time and you can work while we chat. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

On 5/6/2019 at 10:05 AM, Pancho Negro said:

I really like Harris, and she's at or near the top of my list.  But her lack of Black endorsements is concerning. 

How much of this is due to her being a former prosecutor? Just curious if the fact that she thrived off of an unjust justice system turns off the black vote.

I can't speak for the black community but personally I don't like cops and I fucking hate prosecutors. So I really dislike Harris. Curious if others feel the same way.

12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Absolutely not.

His entire schtick is the need for a larger political revolution. When his campaign stopped in 2016 he started Our Revolution specifically to promote the policies he believes in and find younger candidates to promote those policies.

The "Trump = Bernie" crap is just exhaustingly stupid.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Sanders has filed legislation for this stuff already with co-sponsors and committee hearings.

You do not know what you are talking about.

What does "finer details" even mean? Or matter? What voting base anywhere in the history of humankind has consisted of policy wonks who read all the legislation? I would wager that Bernie's voting base is far more conversant in policy than basically any voting base in the 2020 Dem primary.

You’re right that I’m not super informed on the finer points of Bernie’s ideology or strategy.  My perception of his movement is only what he is showing me. It’s not me reading all his books and legislation.  

I’m giving an opinion from the position of what I think most other voters are seeing.  Bernie wants to be president and the way he’s trying to do it is through an emotionally charged/appeal to the people that are fed up with the system.  He might have very altruistic reasons for running that kind of campaign but he’s not selling those reasons as well as he probably could/should.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

29 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

He's saying that most Bernie voters can't articulate the finer details of his policy (more than likely true), and you're saying that his voters grasp the general spirit and direction of his policies  (also true).

I'm saying that about most voters, across all candidates and parties, but I'm not sure that they do grasp the direction of the policies. I think they are more likely to project that onto candidates based on their perception of the major thematic elements of the campaign. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova



I would wager that Bernie's voting base is far more conversant in policy than basically any voting base in the 2020 Dem primary.


You would lose a lot of money.
5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

His major proposal on pricing is the prescription drub price relief act, a peg to the average of five other western countries.

I think the Medicare for All bill he filed is quite a bit more "major" than a reformist bill.

His position as a presidential candidate is to regulate prescription drug prices through the single-payer system.

The legislation you're referring to is simply reform aimed at fixing an individual part of the problem from his position as Senator.

He's running for president, however, and his position as a presidential candidate is to not simply pass the single reform; it's the entire M4A package.

Shinebox, indeed.

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bernie wants to be president and the way he’s trying to do it is through an emotionally charged/appeal to the people that are fed up with the system.

So Bernie just wants to be president and is using a politically expedient facade of policy and populist emotion to achieve that?

Do you honestly think that's believable?

It's a 50+ year long-game?

Astonishing.

Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business & Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Advertise... Tailgate Donations

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.