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smwhorn

Cheating at Chess with a cellphone?

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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2845458-chess-grandmaster-igors-rausis-caught-cheating-with-cellphone-found-in-toilet?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

I know the rules on how to play, but in a professional tournament, I suppose you're allowed to get up during the game to use the restroom?  And how would you cheat?  Call someone?  Google your next move?  

Yeah, I know.  Who cares about chess.  But I just see how one would cheat other than calling someone.

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2 hours ago, smwhorn said:

Yeah, but how do you cheat?  Does your phone tell you potential next moves?

In one of the news articles, they had a picture of the actual board (with pieces) and a picture of the virtual board on his phone. They matched. He had a game/software on his phone that was predicting the best move.

Nigalidze_1.jpg

 

https://en.chessbase.com/post/58-year-old-gm-igors-rausis-caught-cheating-at-the-strasbourg-open

Edited by retread

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Probably less helpful when you don’t tell the phone that there’s a Bishop next to the white queen, and the black pawn it’s suggesting to take isn’t really there. 

Actually there’s several pieces that don’t match. Looks like one pic is about 5 moves behind the other. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto

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I'm all for cheating at cards for a poke ala Augustus McCrae, but I don't know about cheating at chess.  

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I think they were already suspicious about him. He had played a lot of lower ranked players recently and his rating had gone up pretty quick.

It seems like the earpiece would be the way to go if you were dead set on cheating. 

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8 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Probably calling other grandmasters for ideas. Like grandmaster flash. 

But he's in the bathroom...so you mean Grandmaster Flush?

And also, have we recognized chess as a sport? I know that chess boxing is definitely a sport, but chess alone?

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4 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

So are hidden cameras in the mens room a thing at chess tourneys?

that’s kind of a big deal in the states isn’t it?  legally.  guess toilet cams are ok in france. 

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5 hours ago, retread said:

It seems like the earpiece would be the way to go if you were dead set on cheating. 

Players have been caught trying all sorts of cheating methods.

One Italian player was caught blinking in Morse code and using a receiver hidden. in a pendant to send and receive moves from an accomplice: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34184940

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On 7/14/2019 at 12:05 PM, smwhorn said:

Yeah, but how do you cheat?  Does your phone tell you potential next moves?

Late to this thread as I didn't see it initially.  I play a lot of chess online and follow the professionals some.  To answer your question, the chess software has gotten so good that even running an app on a cell phone is much stronger than the worlds top players.  To give some scale, beginners start out with a rating anywhere from 500-1000, novices from 1000-1500, intermediate players from 1500-1800, strong players from 1800-2100, entry master level play from 2100-2300, FIDE master is achieved around 2400, international master up to 2500, and grand master is generally 2500 and up. There are only several hundred players in the world that are grand masters.  This is more or less the equivalent off being NFL level at football.  The worlds top 3-5 players are around 2800.  There are only a handful of players in history of chess who have achieved a rating over 2800.  I think Kasparov was the first.  But the top chess software running on modern computers?  They are over 3300.  I don't know for sure, but even running them on cell phones, they are probably 3000 or better.  

So as to how one cheats, what they do is memorize the board at certain critical points on the game, go to the bathroom and input the position into a chess app, get the best move for their side, and check how to answer the next few potential counter moves.  Memorizing all of this is not difficult for professional players.  Then they come back to the board and bash out superhuman moves.  It's despicable.  This players started to improve very late in his career, which is pretty  much unheard of because all professionals peak in their 20s and 30s.  So everyone knew he was cheating, but most chess tournaments don't have airport level security, so it was hard to catch him.  

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19 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Late to this thread as I didn't see it initially.  I play a lot of chess online and follow the professionals some.  To answer your question, the chess software has gotten so good that even running an app on a cell phone is much stronger than the worlds top players.  To give some scale, beginners start out with a rating anywhere from 500-1000, novices from 1000-1500, intermediate players from 1500-1800, strong players from 1800-2100, entry master level play from 2100-2300, FIDE master is achieved around 2400, international master up to 2500, and grand master is generally 2500 and up. There are only several hundred players in the world that are grand masters.  This is more or less the equivalent off being NFL level at football.  The worlds top 3-5 players are around 2800.  There are only a handful of players in history of chess who have achieved a rating over 2800.  I think Kasparov was the first.  But the top chess software running on modern computers?  They are over 3300.  I don't know for sure, but even running them on cell phones, they are probably 3000 or better.  

So as to how one cheats, what they do is memorize the board at certain critical points on the game, go to the bathroom and input the position into a chess app, get the best move for their side, and check how to answer the next few potential counter moves.  Memorizing all of this is not difficult for professional players.  Then they come back to the board and bash out superhuman moves.  It's despicable.  This players started to improve very late in his career, which is pretty  much unheard of because all professionals peak in their 20s and 30s.  So everyone knew he was cheating, but most chess tournaments don't have airport level security, so it was hard to catch him.  

why would the computation need to be performed on the cell phone itself?  he got internet dont he?

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39 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

why would the computation need to be performed on the cell phone itself?  he got internet dont he?

The cell phone computational power with modern software is enough to beat any human, so you don't even need internet connection.   

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I think it was posted upthread, but he was also playing somewhat average players (by his standards or by his software's standards) in order to game the system and bump up his rating. I think they had had their eye on him for awhile.

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On 8/10/2019 at 4:40 PM, retread said:

I think it was posted upthread, but he was also playing somewhat average players (by his standards or by his software's standards) in order to game the system and bump up his rating. I think they had had their eye on him for awhile.

He was a GM playing other GMs near his own rating around 2500, and then managed to climb up about 200 points to just under 2700, which moved his ranking to number 53 in the world.  He made this rankings climb in his late 50s, while throughout his peak years he was around 2500.  This would be like a wide receiver running a 4.6 second 40 throughout his 20s, then at the age of 39 he drops it down to a 4.4 and starts playing the best football of his career.  It just doesn't happen naturally.   But he wasn't playing against average players; he was playing other GMs.  But compared to modern chess software, all humans are below average players.

 

On 8/10/2019 at 6:58 PM, Zavala said:

carlsen-manic-laugh.jpg

 

Blitz or bust sissies

I prefer blitz.  It's pretty much all I play.  

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You follow this much more closely than I do. I thought it was really interesting how his rating had climbed so fast.

This was the article that I remembered reading.

Quote

Over the last six years, Rausis increased his rating steadily as he mostly limited himself to playing lower-rated opponents against whom he continued scoring perfectly or almost perfectly. For instance, in the July 2019 rating calculations, he scored 24.5/25 against almost only players rated more than 400 points below his own rating.

This way, Rausis has been profiting from the "400-points rule" as specified in paragraph 8.54 of the FIDE Rating Regulations: "A difference in rating of more than 400 points shall be counted for rating purposes as though it were a difference of 400 points." A player still wins 0.8 rating points even if his opponent is rated more than 400 points below him.

To increase one's rating like Rausis did requires almost perfect play over a long period of time, which is not easy even against very low opposition.

https://www.chess.com/news/view/igors-rausis-58-under-investigation-of-cheating

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14 minutes ago, retread said:

You follow this much more closely than I do. I thought it was really interesting how his rating had climbed so fast.

This was the article that I remembered reading.

https://www.chess.com/news/view/igors-rausis-58-under-investigation-of-cheating

Interesting.  I did not know he was doing this as well.  Looks like he was both gaming the system and outright cheating with cell phones.  Glad they caught him and dealt with him properly.  Cheating is a big problem with chess these days.  Sometimes you can be playing an equal or lower rating player online, you beat them a few times in a row, then they transition into simply untouchable for a few games (often combined with major shit talking to match their miraculous hot streak).  This is frustrating for me and I have nothing on the line except loss of wasted intense focus (which is becoming an increasingly rare commodity for me these days); I can't imagine losing a 5 hour professional game against a cheater in this way.  

Edited by Axiom of Choice

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On 8/9/2019 at 9:24 PM, Axiom of Choice said:

So as to how one cheats, what they do is memorize the board at certain critical points on the game, go to the bathroom and input the position into a chess app, get the best move for their side, and check how to answer the next few potential counter moves.  Memorizing all of this is not difficult for professional players.  Then they come back to the board and bash out superhuman moves.  It's despicable.  This players started to improve very late in his career, which is pretty  much unheard of because all professionals peak in their 20s and 30s.  So everyone knew he was cheating, but most chess tournaments don't have airport level security, so it was hard to catch him.  

Keep in mind that many of the small tournaments simply don't have the resources to set up sophisticated anti-cheating methods.

I've played in the Dutch Open once before, several years back. In the C group where the cheater was playing, you'll typically see a lot of older seniors who honestly just forget to switch their phone off sometimes. They're there to have fun and relax, so the prevailing mentality isn't "catch any and all rule-breakers!" which lets guys like this take advantage. It's sad, but what are you gong to do.

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1 hour ago, smuggs said:

Can a player exit an online match before the loss? If so will they be assessed a loss or a DQ?

If you leave an online rated game after the first move for any reason, it is scored as a loss.  Some websites have algorithms that catch cheaters and refund your lost points if you lost a game to a cheater, but they aren't perfect and don't catch many of them.  

 

56 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Keep in mind that many of the small tournaments simply don't have the resources to set up sophisticated anti-cheating methods.

I've played in the Dutch Open once before, several years back. In the C group where the cheater was playing, you'll typically see a lot of older seniors who honestly just forget to switch their phone off sometimes. They're there to have fun and relax, so the prevailing mentality isn't "catch any and all rule-breakers!" which lets guys like this take advantage. It's sad, but what are you gong to do.

How well did you do in the tournament?  Do you sill play much?  I play blitz on lichess if you ever want to play a few games.  

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36 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

If you leave an online rated game after the first move for any reason, it is scored as a loss.  Some websites have algorithms that catch cheaters and refund your lost points if you lost a game to a cheater, but they aren't perfect and don't catch many of them.  

 

How well did you do in the tournament?  Do you sill play much?  I play blitz on lichess if you ever want to play a few games.  

Couldn't tell you, it's been ages. I save my score sheets, so they're probably in a box somewhere.

Nowadays I mostly play online w/ chess.com. But I've heard good things about lichess.

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On 8/12/2019 at 12:28 PM, Axiom of Choice said:

He made this rankings climb in his late 50s, while throughout his peak years he was around 2500.  This would be like a wide receiver running a 4.6 second 40 throughout his 20s, then at the age of 39 he drops it down to a 4.4 and starts playing the best football of his career. 

Barry Bonds says hi. 

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