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Vaping Sickness "epidemic"

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14 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You can't just put nicotine in a product without disclosing it. I guess they could sell spliffs as well as marijuana-only joints. 

Well, totally replacing regular smokes with weed smokes isn't going to ever happen, but in the way more cool world we're talking about, why wouldn't they disclose any added nicotine?  The packs would have all the warnings that they've already got and all that. 

Hell, everything also gets that...what Prop 65 (?) California thing about causing cancer anyway.

 

E:

Quote

dumb question amnesty:  Do the tobacco companies own the mainstream vape companies?

At least some are.  I don't think the Juul company is one of them, but there's one called Blue or Blu or something like that that is owned by..RJ Reynolds? Imperial Brands, for example.

Edited by MadBurgerMaker

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

 

My point is I think pot sells fine on its own. They dont need to "add" anything. More teens/young adults smoke weed than cigarettes these days. 

Gotcha, carry on.

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45 minutes ago, MadBurgerMaker said:

Well, totally replacing regular smokes with weed smokes isn't going to ever happen, but in the way more cool world we're talking about, why wouldn't they disclose any added nicotine?  The packs would have all the warnings that they've already got and all that. 

Hell, everything also gets that...what Prop 65 (?) California thing about causing cancer anyway.

 

E:

At least some are.  I don't think the Juul company is one of them, but there's one called Blue or Blu or something like that that is owned by..RJ Reynolds? Imperial Brands, for example.

I don't understand what you're saying. If the consumer wants a marijuana only cigarette, without tobacco/nicotine, then that is what the consumer is going to get. Whether big tobacco wants to sell that product or not is up to them I guess. If they can find a market for blended marijuana/tobacco cigarettes then I'm sure they will sell those as well. 

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

I don't understand what you're saying. If the consumer wants a marijuana only cigarette, without tobacco/nicotine, then that is what the consumer is going to get. Whether big tobacco wants to sell that product or not is up to them I guess. If they can find a market for blended marijuana/tobacco cigarettes then I'm sure they will sell those as well. 

See posts 35 and 37.  You quoted 37 initially.

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Here's another one.  Sadly the school my wife works at isn't doing shit about this.  They've caught multiple people vaping this year and have either brushed it off or given a slap on the wrist penalty.  Supposed to be suspended 3 days and you lose 25% of the regular season of whatever sport or activity you're involved with.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/healthy-teen-spent-10-days-on-a-ventilator-after-his-lungs-failed-doctors-believe-vaping-habit-behind-it/

 

How much do you have to vape to do this to yourself, shit.

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6 hours ago, SHOOTER12 said:

 

The new millennium version of the dreaded........ paraquat poisoning.

I'd forgotten all about that shit. It didn't deter anyone I knew from toking up but I'm pretty sure too that we all smoked it at some point without knowing. I don't even recall ever hearing of anyone who suffered side effects that were known to be from the stuff. Now "wet" weed, that was another story. Knew a guy in high school who got slipped a wet joint and he was never really the same. Seriously fucked him up.

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13 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I'd forgotten all about that shit. It didn't deter anyone I knew from toking up but I'm pretty sure too that we all smoked it at some point without knowing. I don't even recall ever hearing of anyone who suffered side effects that were known to be from the stuff. Now "wet" weed, that was another story. Knew a guy in high school who got slipped a wet joint and he was never really the same. Seriously fucked him up.

Had an Ortho Paraquat hat. It was stolen...  fuckers.....

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35 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Had an Ortho Paraquat hat. It was stolen...  fuckers.....

I had a NORML sticker on my 72 Maverick. Pretty sure most just thought it was a silly teen play on words. If I had a Paraquat hat I`d rock the shit out of that

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3 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I had a NORML sticker on my 72 Maverick. Pretty sure most just thought it was a silly teen play on words. If I had a Paraquat hat I`d rock the shit out of that

I did.  It was a great hat.

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1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

I'd forgotten all about that shit. It didn't deter anyone I knew from toking up but I'm pretty sure too that we all smoked it at some point without knowing. I don't even recall ever hearing of anyone who suffered side effects that were known to be from the stuff. Now "wet" weed, that was another story. Knew a guy in high school who got slipped a wet joint and he was never really the same. Seriously fucked him up.

You talking about eboming fluid?

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1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

I'd forgotten all about that shit. It didn't deter anyone I knew from toking up but I'm pretty sure too that we all smoked it at some point without knowing. I don't even recall ever hearing of anyone who suffered side effects that were known to be from the stuff. Now "wet" weed, that was another story. Knew a guy in high school who got slipped a wet joint and he was never really the same. Seriously fucked him up.

Yes, same here. Never knew of anyone who really suffered side effects, but had a blast goofing about it. There would be several of us getting high at "Stone Bull" on the NW side of San Antonio, when one of us would fake cramping claw hands and spasms while screaming "paraaaaquuuaàt I'm dying".

Good times had by all....I still wonder about these weird spasms I've had for 40 years though.

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5 minutes ago, Yarbr said:

You talking about eboming fluid?

No, PCP. Kids my son's age were doing the embalming shit 20 years ago.

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I had a friend smoke a wet joint once. He completely flipped out and the only way I got him to calm down was giving him a piece of turkey saying it was a human ear. In his fucked up narrative this made absolute sense and he chilled out for a bit. 

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33 minutes ago, Yarbr said:

I had a friend smoke a wet joint once. He completely flipped out and the only way I got him to calm down was giving him a piece of turkey saying it was a human ear. In his fucked up narrative this made absolute sense and he chilled out for a bit. 

What made you think of that?  Was he demanding human flesh or did you just randomly think a human ear might do the trick? 

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6 minutes ago, XYZ said:

What’s a wet joint?

Laced with heroin? or formaldehyde ...

 

Ok, admittedly I have no idea what a wet joint is.

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1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Obviously 

OK not obviously, but when it's called a wet joint it ain't cause somebody has been bogartin' it.

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1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

OK not obviously, but when it's called a wet joint it ain't cause somebody has been bogartin' it.

Exactly what I was thinking

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1 hour ago, Yarbr said:

I had a friend smoke a wet joint once. He completely flipped out and the only way I got him to calm down was giving him a piece of turkey saying it was a human ear. In his fucked up narrative this made absolute sense and he chilled out for a bit. 

They gave him the shenanigans 

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2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

What made you think of that?  Was he demanding human flesh or did you just randomly think a human ear might do the trick? 

I dont remember exactly, it was 25 years ago. I do remeber he was fighting everything and beating himself to death on my buddies parent's pool table. There was also a lot of growling.

I think hot cigs are going wayside by the time my 12 year old hits high school, unless the govt has something to say about it. My generation will be the last to smoke tobacco regularly.

 

Edited by Yarbr

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Classically, a wet joint has been soaked in a PCP solution.

7 hours ago, BlueGreySky said:

Here's another one.  Sadly the school my wife works at isn't doing shit about this.  They've caught multiple people vaping this year and have either brushed it off or given a slap on the wrist penalty.  Supposed to be suspended 3 days and you lose 25% of the regular season of whatever sport or activity you're involved with.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/healthy-teen-spent-10-days-on-a-ventilator-after-his-lungs-failed-doctors-believe-vaping-habit-behind-it/

 

How much do you have to vape to do this to yourself, shit.

Apparently, you have to vape some kind of bootleg pot shit whipped up by some stoned maniac.

Even the biggest knucklehead in a vape shop can't fuck up regular vape juice.  It's like making kool aid, or chocolate milk.

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On 9/4/2019 at 11:13 PM, Yarbr said:

I dont remember exactly, it was 25 years ago. I do remeber he was fighting everything and beating himself to death on my buddies parent's pool table. There was also a lot of growling.

I think hot cigs are going wayside by the time my 12 year old hits high school, unless the govt has something to say about it. My generation will be the last to smoke tobacco regularly.

 

Smoke tobacco? Probably. Be addicted to it? Not by a long shot.

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On 9/5/2019 at 9:27 PM, mchookem said:

yikes. this is alarming. 

On Wednesday, Oregon health authorities said a middle-aged adult who died in late July of a severe respiratory illness had used an e-cigarette containing marijuana oil purchased from a legal dispensary. It’s the second death linked to vaping nationwide and the first to be linked to a product bought at a store. 

That's a great spin. Use one time and dies.

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I can't believe a product that can only be ingested into one of your most important organs via an electrical charge, may not be totally safe.  

Same shit with cigarettes---if the first step in orally consuming a product is to light it on fire, maybe it could possibly have side effects.  

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On September 2, 2019 at 9:12 AM, TwiceHorn said:

On a serious note, I vaped nicotine to quit dipping.  It worked.

I'm kind of following this because it's an interesting and sort of paradigmatic regulation story.  I think big tobacco is pulling a lot of strings behind the scenes, and we've got the American shibboleth "who will think of the children" in heavy rotation, second only to "tough on crime" for justifying all kinds of legislative and regulatory nonsense to the stupid American electorate.

It's going to make quite a case study.

For the record, nicotine vape largely consists of polyethylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine USP, and a flavor.  The PG and VG turn to water vapor when heated and seem to be fairly harmless.  The water vapor carries the nicotine and flavor into the mouth and lungs.  There seems to be some potential for nastiness in the flavorings, but they are in small amounts.  The "industry," such as it is, seems to be responsive in removing questionable flavorings from products.

While it may not be completely harmless, it is so many orders of magnitude less harmful than inhaling combustion products, anyone who looks at it without an agenda (NHS) has to consider it a positive.

Vaping hasn't been around long enough for you to know whether it's more or less harmful long term than smoking cigarettes or chewing tobacco. What's the longest study done on the subject? Has a study been performed by anyone other than the manufacturers of this the latest nicotine delivery system?

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13 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Vaping hasn't been around long enough for you to know whether it's more or less harmful long term than smoking cigarettes or chewing tobacco. What's the longest study done on the subject? Has a study been performed by anyone other than the manufacturers of this the latest nicotine delivery system?

The only studies have been done by health authorities.  The head of the CDC Office of Smoking and Health said that very thing, based on the simplicity of the ingredients and the different mechanisms involved, but he said it before the subject became rife with politics.

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Here's what I don't understand. I've vaped THC oil with friends on just a few occasions. It was effective, and the exhaust was a vapor -- invisible. It was my understanding that that was the whole point of vaping technology. I knew people who used them in theaters and bars because they're smokeless. I assumed the same was true of "vaping" with nicotine. 

But all the videos I see on TV about vaping show people blowing big clouds of smoke. Usually young people. When the technology first came out I figured it wouldn't appeal to young people because if there's no smoke then you don't look cool doing it. I think it's probably safe to assume that the manufacturers knew that too and took steps to ensure that there was a visible exhaust. How they did it I can't say. 

Want to stop kids from vaping nicotine? Pass a law that forces all vape exhaust to be invisible. Get rid of the smoke and it's not cool anymore. Problem solved. 

Edited by WhatTheBuck

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10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The only studies have been done by health authorities.  The head of the CDC Office of Smoking and Health said that very thing, based on the simplicity of the ingredients and the different mechanisms involved, but he said it before the subject became rife with politics.

Has anyone managed a 20 year study? 10?

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2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Here's what I don't understand. I've vaped THC oil with friends on just a few occasions. It was effective, and the exhaust was a vapor -- invisible. It was my understanding that that was the whole point of vaping technology. I knew people who used them in theaters and bars because they're smokeless. I assumed the same was true of "vaping" with nicotine. 

But all the videos I see on TV about vaping show people blowing big clouds of smoke. Usually young people. When the technology first came out I figured it wouldn't appeal to young people because if there's no smoke then you don't look cool doing it. I think it's probably safe to assume that the manufacturers knew that too and took steps to ensure that there was a visible exhaust. How they did it I can't say. 

Want to stop kids from vaping? Pass a law that forces all vape exhaust to be invisible. Get rid of the smoke and it's not cool anymore. Problem solved. 

Vaping produces water vapor.  It's not smoke, it's steam.  The ingredients are vegetable glycerin, polyethylene glycol, nicotine solution, and a flavor.  Both PG and VG break down when heated to produce water.

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Vaping produces water vapor.  It's not smoke, it's steam.  The ingredients are vegetable glycerin, polyethylene glycol, nicotine solution, and a flavor.  Both PG and VG break down when heated to produce water.

Why has the exhaust from every THC vape I've ever seen been invisible?

I'm glad you gave up dipping. That's disgusting. Do you think you'll ever try to break your addiction to nicotine or do you plan to tell yourself vaping is perfectly safe and you'll be fine using it as your nicotine delivery system of choice for the rest of your life?

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15 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Why has the exhaust from every THC vape I've ever seen been invisible?

I'm glad you gave up dipping. That's disgusting. Do you think you'll ever try to break your addiction to nicotine or do you plan to tell yourself vaping is perfectly safe and you'll be fine using it as your nicotine delivery system of choice for the rest of your life?

I don't vape anymore either.  I turned the nicotine levels down to nothing and stopped. Note that I didn't say "perfectly safe."  First off, nicotine has health risks, no matter how you "take it."  

I don't use any marijuana products, but as far as I know vaping of MJ is the vaporization of resin, so it's still a chemical vapor, but it isn't steam.

"Smoke" comes from combustion of matter, usually solids, like tobacco, marijuana, leaves, wood, what-have-you.  It's a more complex chemical by-product than steam.  It's the things in tobacco smoke that are carcinogenic.  Burning shit tends to produce carcinogens and that includes grilled meats.

Vaping is not intended to produce combustion (fast and self-sustaining exothermic oxidation/reduction reaction), but merely to heat the components until they boil, essentially.  The vaping process occurs well below the combustion points of any of the ingredients.  The risks seem to be potential side reactions that create aldehydes and alcohols and metals that come from the heating coils.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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In fact, it was the lack of combustion that the CDC head of smoking and health relied upon when he made the statement that vaping is most likely orders of magnitude less dangerous than smoking.  He said the smoke, even upon rudimentary analysis, contains dozens of  carcinogens and other harmful materials in obvious quantities.  Similar rudimentary analysis of vaping by-products shows no such thing.

It may prove to be a problem. 

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34 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Why has the exhaust from every THC vape I've ever seen been invisible?

I'm glad you gave up dipping. That's disgusting. Do you think you'll ever try to break your addiction to nicotine or do you plan to tell yourself vaping is perfectly safe and you'll be fine using it as your nicotine delivery system of choice for the rest of your life?

If you like nicotine that much, chew the gum.

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Just now, housious said:

If you like nicotine that much, chew the gum.

The gum is expensive and tastes like shit.  But so does Copenhagen.  

I wanted to get a different delivery mechanism involved, at some risk of becoming addicted to that, also, but it worked out.

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I'm not absolutely going to the mat in defense of vaping.  But however the science plays out, I think it represents a harm-reduction strategy.

I am mostly interested in how the whole regulatory mess plays out.  It's clear to me that it is being manipulated by big tobacco and by politicians, "encouraged" by big tobacco, who are anxious to create a pro-regulatory environment by invoking the "who will think of the children" mantra.

I think this is legislative priority about eleventy billion, but our congress cunts can't deal with the real problems of the nation, so let's make one up.

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57 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Why has the exhaust from every THC vape I've ever seen been invisible?

I'm glad you gave up dipping. That's disgusting. Do you think you'll ever try to break your addiction to nicotine or do you plan to tell yourself vaping is perfectly safe and you'll be fine using it as your nicotine delivery system of choice for the rest of your life?

I've never vaped nicotine, only THC.  None that I've ever tried had invisible exhale.  Now, it isn't as heavy as I've seen from nicotine vapes but it's definitely there. 

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