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Evangelical Christians

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4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

One of the things that seems to characterize the modern "evangelical" Christian is that the churches are "non-denominational."  Even the denominations associated with "evangelicals," Southern Baptist and Church of Christ, are highly congregational, meaning the minister, appointed by the congregation, is the "last word" or the last human word, on almost everything.

So, that tends to create a greater echo chamber effect than often exists in more traditional hierarchical churches with regional and national, and international governing bodies.  I find that these governing bodies frequently bring a broader perspective to local congregations and provide better thought leadership in matters both religious and secular.

Strangely, Jewish temples are extremely congregational, yet, outside of Hasidic and ultra-conservative sects, don't seem to suffer quite the same echo chamber effect as congregational Christian churches.  On the other hand, Muslim groups suffer from the congregational problem significantly and it seems that the lack of established churches with hierarchies, the equivalent of Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. causes them huge problems.

Bolded for emphasis.

3 hours ago, NWBuck said:

Exactly! And, given that evangelicalism is very individualistic (my understanding of scripture, my relationship with Jesus, etc.), there's not the ability to recognize systemic problems or consider perspectives that challenge the preconceived interpretations/understandings.

Two EXCELLENT posts in a row.  There's a great thread that runs through this topic (faith) and our greater topic (society) -- sacrificing/losing community/society in favor of individualism.  We gain so much perspective, wisdom, and moderation by living in community; we have to listen to others' viewpoints, be considerate of others' needs, etc.  That starts at the family level and moves on up to the national and even global level.  We are BETTER for living in community.  Not everyone gets exactly what they want, but we all end up better in the long run.  And most importantly, we LEARN.  We are exposed to other viewpoints and perspectives by being in a larger group.

For example, folks from America's largest, most diverse cities are less likely to be racist.  Because we know and work and break bread with folks of multiple colors, faiths, etc.  Folks in BFE are more likely to hate mooslems because they've never met a muslim in their life.

3 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Lot of broad brushes in here. I can’t stand Trump. I don’t know one of my buddies that doesn’t think he’s a total assclown. The ones that voted for him all held their nose. I’d never vote for him. Anyway, we are all evangelicals, that also hate Jeffress. 

Posrep for this.  Seriously, it heartens me to hear a self-proclaimed evangelical disavow that SOB.  He truly is so evil that it takes my breath away -- to claim to be a man of God, and to say and stand for the shit that he does....if you have any moral compass, and any Christian faith, it's like nails on a chalkboard.  So, thank you for sharing that.

2 hours ago, Fozzz said:

Funny thing about evangelicals is how they are driving people away from Christianity.  

https://psmag.com/news/is-the-christian-right-driving-americans-away-from-religion

My wife's ministry is one that deals with the "nones and dones."  It's the fastest growing "faith" demographic out there.  And they are generally unambiguous about their reasoning -- conspicuous "people of faith" are cruel dicks.

But the hopeful thing is that many of these same folks actually want to walk and live in "the way" of Christianity.  Which is, you know, the whole damned point.

We the American people may have lost our churches.  But we haven't quite lost our hearts and souls.  And in the end, maybe our hearts and souls will be BETTER for losing what the faith has become, and for living the faith as it was meant to be.  But, how to tie that back into community -- that's the great challenge.  For folks who believe, finding that path is the task before us.

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10 minutes ago, sidis said:

lol at an evagelical christian identity politics thread being what draws out rex kramer into cloak room posting...when his entire schtick here is trying to personify the low-character, frat douche piece of shit self-aggrandizer.

Low character because I won’t vote Dems because we have an awful POTUS?  Because I don’t buy every one of Pancho’s “woe is the 22 yo black man at prom” videos?  I’m okay with that. 

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2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Low character because I won’t vote Dems because we have an awful POTUS?  Because I don’t buy every one of Pancho’s “woe is the 22 yo black man at prom” videos?  I’m okay with that. 

umm, no you plane-dipping douche.  but your above post does illuminate something about your defense of your fellow sae's indefensible actions at ou. 

it's more your illustrious and unending bragging about wealth and severe disdain for the poor...a trail of evidence that you have left that is long and distinguished...

HXSk.gif

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2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Fucking heretics. 

LOL, no. My criticism is that they have no framework to ground any of their ideas. The SBC doesn't have a doctrine and are really nothing more than a loosely affiliated confederation of congregations. As a result their views tend to bounce around with the wind without any consistency. Which is partially why their politics shapes their faith.

 

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2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

Well, we almost made it to 3 pages without some dickeater ruining the discussion. New record, guys!

An acquaintance from high school joined the army right out of school and spent quite a bit of time in Iraq. In high school, he was an evangelical Christian.  After his deployments, he turned into an atheist. The interesting thing is that while his conclusions were drastically different, he still maintained his same fundamentalist thought process. If you can't see the same fundamentalist thinking in declaring a majority of evangelicals evil because Trump (who admittedly is terrible), that's your problem. Just because the enemy (who has been declared "evil") is different, doesn't mean the thinking is any different than the most obnoxious Baptist preacher. You have your enemies based on shallow understanding and a fundamentalist ideology, they have theirs. I fail to see much of a difference.

Sincerely, 

Some Dickeater

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One of Cardinal Timothy Dolan's go to jokes is about the "nuns" being the fastest growing demographic. Of course he clarifies that he meant "nones". 

People grow up in a moral relativist culture and in a culture  that embodies hedonism, which everyone embraces to one extent or another. The end product is that many people are afraid to make moral judgments, both because you need a strong theological grounding (which they lack) and because it will make other people uncomfortable and make you personally unpopular.

The internal contradiction is that these people are looking for meaning in life and can only find it if they indeed do conclude that there is "one right way". You have to reject the idea of there being "many ways". 

Anyway there is no shortage of asshole christians (I am one) but very few of those who are reprehensible are catholic. And it's the evangelical's lack of a centralized authority that has led to their arrogance and lack of faith. The institutional church has value, warts and all. The alternative is worse.

America magazine asked the pope "Who are you?" His response was "I am a sinner". 

Catholicism isn't just one right way, it is "the way". And that scares moral relativsits, but it shouldn't. Of course Bishop Robert Barron says it far better than I can. Or if you're move of a populist, you can read about Bono's take on the same subject. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankviola/bono-on-jesus/

 

Edited by Thetexashammer

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4 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

As someone who grew up Baptist, I'll weight in on this.  You have to understand that their outlook on the world is an extension of their view on the Bible, which is a melodrama going back and forth between good and evil that will culminate in an apocalyptic event where the good guys win.  There is no nuance.  It's black and white with no gray.  So, as they see the world, it's a drama in constant conflict.  (They're drama queens.)  The end game is the other side isn't simply the "other side," they're actually evil.  It really doesn't matter if it's Hillary Clinton or Obama. They'd say the same about Biden when you take away the race and gender angles.  It also doesn't matter who is on their team.  Every election has the balance of the universe in question.  They voted for a child molester in Alabama because babies might die!

Also, it keeps them entertained, if you think about it.  There's drama everywhere not unlike a teenager with a video game.  Just turn on TV and you'll hear how city council elections are a battle for America or something.

On a larger scale, though, they're not the dominant political force of yesteryear and it's not close.  They're more of a transactional voting block now and by that I mean if a candidate can get them theirs, that's all they need.  They're like the unions in that regard.  Just get me what I can and the details of the candidate don't matter.  The only difference is they've been draping themselves in morality for decades.  

The truth is they've always been the most pliable voting block in America.  They were against divorce until Reagan, against draft dodging until Bush, against fun babies until Palin, thought Mormons were a cult until Romney, and against everything until Trump.  They'll believe whatever they're told.  (If only Wulaw and Escriva were still here to tell us how principled they are.)  All you really have to do is merely say you're pro-choice and they give you a pass for everything else.

On the subject of abortion, you're right in that it's a little more complex but it's not.  They say that issue is their deal breaker but would they vote for a pro-life Democrat?  Most of them would decidedly not.  So, they say it's what makes them Republicans but there are certainly other factors.  The Democrats know this, too.  They know by running a pro life Democrat, they'd lose far more voters than they'd gain.  The evangelicals will just want to vote Republican but they need some issue to dial up the melodrama (see Paragraph One).  It makes them think they're fighting some cosmic battle.

 

 

Perfect. Well written.

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FT_16.11.09_Relig_ExitPoll_ReligRace.png

The only voting block higher than 81% was probably the sheepfuckers in college station. In short,  evangelicals can get fucked for foisting the orange shitstain on the rest of us. 

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2 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i wasn't making the assertion Christians should find something to be radical about and then swim towards that goal.  the tenets of faith Jesus and the apostles laid out do not change over time.  they were laid out 2000+ years ago.  they were liberal and counter-cultural then and they still are today. 

 

what should make Christians radical:

- loving God through obedience

- loving your neighbor

- living a pure life above reproach, set apart as a part of the physical manifestation of Jesus, his church

- having faith, joy, and hope in all circumstances

 

we can't be holy by ourselves, that's made clear many times over.  the more we submit to God's sanctifying work of the Spirit in us the more He changes us.  submission and sanctification is an ongoing process involving prayer, meditation, and scripture.

i think that's true to an extent.  a lot of ND churches are megachurches with many campuses accounting for hundreds of thousands of members in the US alone.  still other ND churches actually belong to a convention or denomination but still call themselves ND.  

I imagine that gsoda and I practice our faith (worship for sure) quite differently.

But this post gets much respect from me.  Especially the bolded.  Each element of which I fall short on, time and time again.

And as for the line in italics, that can't be emphasized enough.  We are CALLED to be in community.  And that doesn't just mean a community of the like-minded.

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4 hours ago, NWBuck said:

Exactly! And, given that evangelicalism is very individualistic (my understanding of scripture, my relationship with Jesus, etc.), there's not the ability to recognize systemic problems or consider perspectives that challenge the preconceived interpretations/understandings.

This is a staple of Mainline protestantism called prima scriptura - "scripture first" but augmented by your situation and interpretation. 

Evangelical protestantism approaches scripture from a historical perspective - it can only be understood by knowing what the author and audience meant it to mean.  It only has one meaning.

Orthodoxy approaches scripture plus authoritative teachings as equal.  In contrast, protestants would say Calvin or a pope are informative but not authoritative.

 

Of course there are exceptions to these rules.

Edited by JBJ

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39 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

One of Cardinal Timothy Dolan's go to jokes is about the "nuns" being the fastest growing demographic. Of course he clarifies that he meant "nones". 

People grow up in a moral relativist culture and in a culture  that embodies hedonism, which everyone embraces to one extent or another. The end product is that many people are afraid to make moral judgments, both because you need a strong theological grounding (which they lack) and because it will make other people uncomfortable and make you personally unpopular.

The internal contradiction is that these people are looking for meaning in life and can only find it if they indeed do conclude that there is "one right way". You have to reject the idea of there being "many ways". 

Anyway there is no shortage of asshole christians (I am one) but very few of those who are reprehensible are catholic. And it's the evangelical's lack of a centralized authority that has led to their arrogance and lack of faith. The institutional church has value, warts and all. The alternative is worse.

America magazine asked the pope "Who are you?" His response was "I am a sinner". 

Catholicism isn't just one right way, it is "the way". And that scares moral relativsits, but it shouldn't. Of course Bishop Robert Barron says it far better than I can. Or if you're move of a populist, you can read about Bono's take on the same subject. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankviola/bono-on-jesus/

 

I am a Catholic, well, sorta -- I'm a Catholic Presbyterian.  For what that's worth -- I'm a Jesuit-educated Catholic Presbyterian.

I still have great respect and reverence for the Catholic church; Father James Martin, SJ, is perhaps my favorite modern theologian.  Obviously, I am not a staunch believer in "there's just one way," but then, it comes down to how you define "one way."  I've repeatedly referred to Christianity as "a way," instead of just being a religion or a faith.  It is a way of being in communion with God and our fellow man, with some clear, and good, calls and commands on how to do so.

The first bolded quote above is so important; it's kind of like the saying about Democracy -- it's the worst way of governing, except for all the others.  The institutional church -- Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian -- they all have warts.  But they are preferable to the alternative, because they provide the communal process and journey that we all need, grow from, and are called to live.

The second quote is just because I love Pope Francis so damned much.  No, he's not perfect.  But he does an incredible job of trying to live "the way" -- of showing humility, brotherhood with his fellow children of God, and Christian kindness.  I was in New Orleans when his election was announced; being in such a Catholic (and Jesuit) city for that announcement -- the air was genuinely electric.  As a member of the Jesuit alumni community, it was an amazing moment.  And my parents lived in Argentina for some time, and knew of him well -- he was well-known and quite beloved there.  The moment was incredibly powerful.

I can't help but be a product of my Jesuit education.  It is perhaps one of the most solid foundations of my heart and soul.

Edited by Brisketexan

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I find it perplexing when Trump is compared to David, Mordecai, or Cyrus. It was confusing and darkly amusing to hear a respected and decent Baptist preacher try to talk himself into Trump or hearing of a Catholic priest giving a homily about the importance of "religious freedom."  I like Mark Noll's ("The scandal of the evangelical mind is that there is not much of an evangelical mind") description of evangelical support for Trump: 

Quote

legitimate concerns from white evangelical Protestants about a rapidly secularizing American culture metastasized into a fear-driven brew of half-truths, fanciful nostalgia, misplaced Christian nationalism, ethical hypocrisy, and political naiveté—precisely, that is, the mix that led so many white evangelicals not only to cast their votes for Donald Trump but also to regard him as a literal godsend.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

All religions suck. There.

Atheists have typically been some of the best humanitarians in history. The commie dictators in Asia and Europe were lovely people. 

And how would American poors have ever managed without all the wonderful orphanages, hospitals and food banks that atheists start and maintain? 

When I go to Haiti every year to work and when I make my monthly donation to the orphanage that feeds, educates and pays for medicine to Haitian orphans we couldnt’t survive without all the money atheists give. 

Oh. Wait. Nope. Just us racist white Christians down there. The NSA couldn’t find an atheist helping out in Haiti.

But the surly morally superior atheist liberal cabal whose major contribution to humanity is advocating taking money from people like me to piss away with government overhead to buy votes for their side is the moral fucking majority. 

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Yeah, how come those damned atheists like Carnegie, Buffet, Gates, and Soros never donate any money to charities?

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4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Yeah, how come those damned atheists like Carnegie, Buffet, Gates, and Soros never donate any money to charities?

Buffet and Gates aren’t atheists. Don’t know about the others. 

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3 hours ago, sidis said:

umm, no you plane-dipping douche.  but your above post does illuminate something about your defense of your fellow sae's indefensible actions at ou. 

it's more your illustrious and unending bragging about wealth and severe disdain for the poor...a trail of evidence that you have left that is long and distinguished...

HXSk.gif

Ah. Got it. You thought I was defending some jackass OU SAE. Not surprisingly you’re misremembering.

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Um, actually they are...although I'll grant you that Buffett uses the term "agnostic", which is the word we use when we don't want to offend someone. 

As are Richard Branson and Larry page and a whole host of other philanthropists.

We are just as much, if not more charitable than religious folks, and we're not trying to buy our way into Heaven.

Oh, and Haiti?  Sean Penn says "hi"

 

Edited by DixonHur

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7 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Um, actually they are...although I'll grant you that Buffett uses the term "agnostic", which is the word we use when we don't want to offend someone. 

Guess we take your word over his. 

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Gates is Catholic?

Buffet may be atheist depending on how you define it.  He's a none.

Edited by JBJ

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Gates may or may not be Catholic depending on how you define it. I wouldn't call him an atheist in any meaningful sense of the term.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/bill-gates-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140313?page=5

Quote

The moral systems of religion, I think, are superimportant. We've raised our kids in a religious way; they've gone to the Catholic church that Melinda goes to and I participate in. I've been very lucky, and therefore I owe it to try and reduce the inequity in the world. And that's kind of a religious belief. I mean, it's at least a moral belief.

Quote

I agree with people like Richard Dawkins that mankind felt the need for creation myths. Before we really began to understand disease and the weather and things like that, we sought false explanations for them. Now science has filled in some of the realm – not all – that religion used to fill. But the mystery and the beauty of the world is overwhelmingly amazing, and there's no scientific explanation of how it came about. To say that it was generated by random numbers, that does seem, you know, sort of an uncharitable view [laughs]. I think it makes sense to believe in God, but exactly what decision in your life you make differently because of it, I don't know.

 

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19 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Gates is Catholic? 

Negative ghost rider...

Quote

Do you believe in God?
I agree with people like Richard Dawkins that mankind felt the need for creation myths. Before we really began to understand disease and the weather and things like that, we sought false explanations for them. Now science has filled in some of the realm – not all – that religion used to fill. But the mystery and the beauty of the world is overwhelmingly amazing, and there's no scientific explanation of how it came about. To say that it was generated by random numbers, that does seem, you know, sort of an uncharitable view [laughs]. I think it makes sense to believe in God, but exactly what decision in your life you make differently because of it, I don't know.

Rolling Stone

lol, Mole and I both linked the same article with different interpretations.  The key point to understanding is the phrase "I agree with people like Richard Dawkins..."

How many religious folks do you hear utter those words in response to the question, "do you believe in God"? 

He's also said, "just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There's a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning." - Bill Gates

 

Edited by DixonHur

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I, too, like Onboard, also feverishly defend things I don't believe in.

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18 minutes ago, Mole said:

Carnegie was a good atheist Presbyterian.

Well let's ask him...

Um, Mr. Carnegie, what do you think about Christianity?

Quote

“The whole scheme of Christian Salvation is diabolical as revealed by the creeds. An angry God, imagine such a creator of the universe. Angry at what he knew was coming and was himself responsible for. Then he sets himself about to beget a son, in order that the child should beg him to forgive the Sinner. This however he cannot or will not do. He must punish somebody--so the son offers himself up & our creator punishes the innocent youth, never heard of before--for the guilty and became reconciled to us. . . . . I decline to accept Salvation from such a fiend.”  - Andrew Carnegie

But surely, Mr. Carnegie, you must believe in God...

Quote

"Not only had I got rid of the theology and the supernatural, but I had found the truth of evolution"

 

Edited by DixonHur

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Sorry I'm late to the party...cross burning's ran long again tonight.  No matter how many times you remind them, these new ass holes never bring enough gas.  

Anyway...yea, when given the choice of the second coming of Mother Teresa in Hillary Clinton...we all chose the devil himself.  I think that was her biggest problem was spending so much time at church and feeding the hungry...not out campaigning.  I know the Haitians can't stop talking about the Clinton's generosity...until they suicide themselves.  

So I see where you're coming from...the morality divide between our two choices was so stark...how could any Christian pick Trump? 

 

Edited by XR4ticlone

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4 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

lol yeah fuck black people

Yeah, exactly what I said. 

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20 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

Sorry I'm late to the party...cross burning's ran long again tonight.  No matter how many times you remind them, these new ass holes never bring enough gas.  

Anyway...yea, when given the choice of the second coming of Mother Teresa in Hillary Clinton...we all chose the devil himself.  I think that was her biggest problem was spending so much time at church and feeding the hungry...not out campaigning.  I know the Haitians can't stop talking about the Clinton's generosity...until they suicide themselves.  

So I see where you're coming from...the morality divide between our two choices was so stark...how could any Christian pick Trump? 

 

Why do 70% of white evangelicals prefer him to any other republican?

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Why do 70% of white evangelicals prefer him to any other republican?

Shhh...they can only defend their choice of Trump in relation to Hillary. They can’t explain their CONTINUED support for him now that she’s defeated.

See, they chose the lesser of two evils. And then, by virtue of the fact that Evangelicals chose him, the lesser evil turned into good. And now you know how to do evangelical math.

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4 hours ago, JBJ said:

 

I'd give these reasons for Clinton being a terrible religious candidate:

The majority (60%) of Americans believe religious liberty is on the decline.  The GOP does a good job of echoing that concern.  The Democrats have: the Little Sisters of the Poor, "clinging to religion," "deplorables," suing churches and ministers to force gay marriages, the list goes on... Clinton even launched her campaign from Four Freedoms Park and left out the "second freedom" from her speech.

Any amount of humantarianism she has is seen as secular progressive.  The village to raise a child, works-based salvation, her views on abortion of course.

Her campaign didn't perform religious outreach.  She hired an outreach coordinator very late in the campaign, she cancelled her St Patrick's day event, speeches at churchs or conventions?

Its not just Hillary.  Part of it is her constituency.  After her father died is one of the rare times she talked openly about her personal religious views.  Her base blasted her for it.  That might be why she left it out of her campaign.

Obama and the DNC also left her a terrible legacy. There is very real hostility toward religous freedom on the Democratic side.

Apparently there is no topic, including faith and guiding principles, where "But Hillary!" is not immediately deployed.  

----

As for the post above that I replied to...

Topic of the thread:  "Why do the people who claim to adhere to the teachings of Christ so vehemently and vigorously support and defend a man who is the antithesis of those values?  It's the very definition of hypocrisy."

JBJ:  "Well, Hillary made some strategic mistakes during the campaign!"

Do you hear how stupid and utterly irrelevant to the topic that is?

----

This fable where Hillary once talked about her faith, but was ubiquitously "blasted" by "her base."  What the fuck are you talking about?  Link to this "blasting"?  I've never heard that story, but it smacks of Hannity/Rush-style bullshit that has no basis in fact.  But here's the thing:  It doesn't even matter if it's true.  **IF** it happened, here's the logic you'd be using to support Trump:  "I am a Christian, but I had to support person A, who is thoroughly un-Christ-like, because person B was once criticized by person C."  

And by the way, Hillary Clinton has spoken of her faith countless times, in countless interviews, and in forums that include the pulpits of numerous churches.  Now I'll agree with you that she was a bad candidate who ran a bad campaign, but I'd bet a year's salary with zero hesitation that the former Sunday school teacher can pronounce "Two Corinthians" and that she is capable of naming a verse that actually appears in the bible, something Trump has failed to do over and over and over again.

Maybe do a simple google search with her name and words like "faith," "religion," or "speech," or "interview," and you'll see quotes from all kinds of places to demonstrate that your "rare times" argument is profoundly dishonest (whether you realized it or not when you parroted it).  

You even managed to squeeze an "Obama" into that post.  Bravo.

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1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Well let's ask him...

Um, Mr. Carnegie, what do you think about Christianity?

But surely, Mr. Carnegie, you must believe in God...

 

Like I said, a good atheist Presbyterian. He was most definitely an atheist but was for a significant part of his life a churchgoer and was a supporter of churches (donating support for many church organs). Interesting fellow.

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The only thing Hillary worships is a 200ft tall paper mache image of herself made of $500 bills and children's tears.

I doubt it’s that tall.

Although “I hate narcissists so I support Trump” is a humorous bit of cognitive dissonance, which matches up perfectly with the thread topic.

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5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


I doubt it’s that tall.

Although “I hate narcissists so I support Trump” is a humorous bit of cognitive dissonance, which matches up perfectly with the thread topic.

It’s ok for racist white men to be narcissists. Hell, it’s encouraged!

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53 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why do 70% of white evangelicals prefer him to any other republican?

Probably because they're sick of being lied to by the right & attacked by the left.  

He wasn't anywhere near my top 5.  In the end it wasn't much of a choice vs Hillary.

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Probably because they're sick of being lied to by the right & attacked by the left.  
He wasn't anywhere near my top 5.  In the end it wasn't much of a choice vs Hillary.

Great. Lesser of two evils.

None of which explains strident support for someone who is still an evil.

Stop lying. It’s unbecoming. Just be honest. You like him. You always liked him. And you don’t think he’s bad. Even though he’s utterly inconsistent with any sane version of Christianity.

We’re back to the original topic. Nobody liked him. They only voted for him because Hillary. Bullshit. 80% support among evangelicals. You don’t get to disclaim him, yet relentlessly support him. I’m calling you on your lying hypocritical bullshit.

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40 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Shhh...they can only defend their choice of Trump in relation to Hillary. They can’t explain their CONTINUED support for him now that she’s defeated.

See, they chose the lesser of two evils. And then, by virtue of the fact that Evangelicals chose him, the lesser evil turned into good. And now you know how to do evangelical math.

I wouldn't say that...but regardless of all of Trump's personal shortcomings...what are we supposed to do?   Sit quietly for the next 3 years?   Trump's doing a lot of positive things...we can't support that because he's a man whore?  

Don't really care.  Not going to throw away the next three years to undo all of Obama's fuckups. 

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3 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

I wouldn't say that...but regardless of all of Trump's personal shortcomings...what are we supposed to do?   Sit quietly for the next 3 years?   Trump's doing a lot of positive things...we can't support that because he's a man whore?  

Don't really care.  Not going to throw away the next three years to undo all of Obama's fuckups. 

Oh you poor thing, you think he's actually doing good things for you. It must be rough, being so traumatized by the thought of a black president that Trump seems good in any way.

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I wouldn't say that...but regardless of all of Trump's personal shortcomings...what are we supposed to do?   Sit quietly for the next 3 years?   Trump's doing a lot of positive things...we can't support that because he's a man whore?  
Don't really care.  Not going to throw away the next three years to undo all of Obama's fuckups. 

No...we can’t support that because he’s nakedly corrupt. Because he lies at a rate that defies belief. Because he is purposefully cruel and demeaning. Because he openly courts and seeks counsel from racists and xenophobes. Because he golfs instead of governs (remember, that used to be awful?). Because he is terrible at building a cabinet/team. Because - if we’re going to talk about him supposedly being a man of faith - he actually says there’s NOTHING he’s done that requires forgiveness.

I can do this all fucking night.

Lots of truly shitty people also “did a lot of positive things.” You give a uniquely unchristian man a pass. And your evangelicals actually elevate him as a true man of christ.

I call bullshit. I call you on all of your bullshit. Quit lying. Don’t be ashamed of your support for him. Own it. That stink is on you, it ain’t ever washing off. Might as well roll in it.

Just understand that it’s completely inconsistent with being a Christian or even a decent human being.

You’ve made your choice. Own it.

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9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Great. Lesser of two evils.

None of which explains strident support for someone who is still an evil.

Stop lying. It’s unbecoming. Just be honest. You like him. You always liked him. And you don’t think he’s bad. Even though he’s utterly inconsistent with any sane version of Christianity.

We’re back to the original topic. Nobody liked him. They only voted for him because Hillary. Bullshit. 80% support among evangelicals. You don’t get to disclaim him, yet relentlessly support him. I’m calling you on your lying hypocritical bullshit.

No...I wanted to toss him right to the end of the convention.  Was pissed when it didn't happen.  Wanted to beat John Kasich's ass for staying in...ensuring Cruz had no shot.  

I do like him in a lot of regards.  I love how he's standing up to the left's insanity.  He's exposed the MSM more effectively than anyone before him...he's also exposing a lot of corruption in DC.  It's pretty clear now the FBI & DOJ were jokes...endless leaking to the press to drive their agenda.  Clearly they were spying on US citizens & had bias in their investigations.  

It's good that we finally have a President pushing for US interests.  We've given away the farm for far too long.  We borrow money from China to give away...think about that.  

I'm a Christian.  I'm also a sinner...like everyone else.   I'm saved through the forgiveness of Jesus Christ...and that alone.  I'm also an American.  I think people have freedom to make their own choices...and also to suffer the consequences.  As a Christian, I believe that homosexuality is sin.  As an American I believe it's their choice. 

And as much as the left seems to think that there is this Christian theology...I don't see it.  And if I'm going to withhold voting or support because the President isn't morally pure...then I've just surrendered the country.  I don't think that's a valid choice...and I won't be bullied into it by leftists.      

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15 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

I love how “evangelical” has become a dirty word. 

It should be.  Does it make sense to push religion on others instead of just shutting the fuck up?

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10 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

No...I wanted to toss him right to the end of the convention.  Was pissed when it didn't happen.  Wanted to beat John Kasich's ass for staying in...ensuring Cruz had no shot.  

I do like him in a lot of regards.  I love how he's standing up to the left's insanity.  He's exposed the MSM more effectively than anyone before him...he's also exposing a lot of corruption in DC.  It's pretty clear now the FBI & DOJ were jokes...endless leaking to the press to drive their agenda.  Clearly they were spying on US citizens & had bias in their investigations.  

It's good that we finally have a President pushing for US interests.  We've given away the farm for far too long.  We borrow money from China to give away...think about that.  

I'm a Christian.  I'm also a sinner...like everyone else.   I'm saved through the forgiveness of Jesus Christ...and that alone.  I'm also an American.  I think people have freedom to make their own choices...and also to suffer the consequences.  As a Christian, I believe that homosexuality is sin.  As an American I believe it's their choice. 

And as much as the left seems to think that there is this Christian theology...I don't see it.  And if I'm going to withhold voting or support because the President isn't morally pure...then I've just surrendered the country.  I don't think that's a valid choice...and I won't be bullied into it by leftists.      

OK, then.  

You know how on the old website people talked about the "rubes who got bamboozled?"  That's you.   

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Old Testament + Revelation - Jesus + racism = American evangelicals of today. 

I attended shitty Southern public schools for the first four years of my schooling, then and "evangelical" school for four years after that. Our name was the Rebels. Our fight song was "Dixie." We had Confederate flag decals on our football helmets. And we prayed a lot. And there was one black kid in the school -- the cafeteria cook's daughter. Nothing racist about any o' that shit, y'all. See, we let Cat's daughter come to school with our kids. 

Then I left that state and attended Catholic school back in Houston and all that shit started to seem insane. 

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12 minutes ago, XR4ticlone said:

 

And as much as the left seems to think that there is this Christian theology...I don't see it.   

I am trying to wrap my head around your pronouncement that "the left" mistakenly thinks that there is such a thing as Christian theology.  

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