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2018 Lawn and Landscape Thread

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It could be a cross breed grown from seed and then you'll probably never know. 
A lot of citrus has very hard, long, and sharp thorns.  It varies, plant to plant, even branch to branch.  Only half of my dwarf meyer lemon has thorns.

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Prior to the rain this weekend, did a final leaf/mulch mow until the mower ran dry. Lawn looks okaaay, but not great. Main enemy now is the pesky Dallis (sp?) grass. That is what husband said it was. I applied the pre-emergent back whenever it was due (spring for fall, fall for spring) but I guess since this is a broad-leaf it doesn't work? School is starting back up so I suppose I'll get the bucket out and go sit in the yard for a few hours pulling until I can get it under control.

On the other hand, my ornamental cabbages and kale look pretty nice with this cool gray weather.

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I suspect this is it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_orange
It's possible that it is a remnant rootstock that has survived after the top died. 


Hey Cactus, question for you. Laid down some zoysia sod in October and put down some Scott’s fertilizer and weed killer. Starting to get quite a bit of weeds, crabgrass i believe. What should I put down?


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It's probably poa. 

Guh. I can't think straight at the moment. 

Certainty is my first choice, but I'll look to see if there's something else that is cheaper besides round up. 

 

Revolver too, but it's even more expensive 

Edited by cactusflinthead

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It's probably poa. 
Guh. I can't think straight at the moment. 
Certainty is my first choice, but I'll look to see if there's something else that is cheaper besides round up. 
 
Revolver too, but it's even more expensive 


Took some pics of the weeds d1c1e7176a662a43d511482ea1464854.jpg740274c5a5defd8cf1777b71c2e56520.jpg


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It's probably poa. 
Guh. I can't think straight at the moment. 
Certainty is my first choice, but I'll look to see if there's something else that is cheaper besides round up. 
 
Revolver too, but it's even more expensive 


Took some pics of the weeds d1c1e7176a662a43d511482ea1464854.jpg740274c5a5defd8cf1777b71c2e56520.jpg


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It's probably poa. 
Guh. I can't think straight at the moment. 
Certainty is my first choice, but I'll look to see if there's something else that is cheaper besides round up. 
 
Revolver too, but it's even more expensive 


Took some pics of the weeds d1c1e7176a662a43d511482ea1464854.jpg740274c5a5defd8cf1777b71c2e56520.jpg


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It's probably poa. 
Guh. I can't think straight at the moment. 
Certainty is my first choice, but I'll look to see if there's something else that is cheaper besides round up. 
 
Revolver too, but it's even more expensive 


Took a couple of pics 26089516c7e47e26eda3b9dec4e20751.jpg742be234ba50c9080ad19544596aae6e.jpg


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It's probably poa. 
Guh. I can't think straight at the moment. 
Certainty is my first choice, but I'll look to see if there's something else that is cheaper besides round up. 
 
Revolver too, but it's even more expensive 


Took a couple of pics 26089516c7e47e26eda3b9dec4e20751.jpg742be234ba50c9080ad19544596aae6e.jpg


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The top one is nutgrass. The bottom one looks like a broadleaf of some kind. You can ID nutgrass in the dark. If you can feel a distinct v-shaped ridge in the middle of the blade it's nutgrass. I've literally found them in the dark in a liriope bed because  it had to get cleaned up and we didn't have lights. Liriope is flat. Nutgrass and other sedges have a triangular, v-shaped main ridge. 

The other one I might have to see after you pull it and isolate it in a shot. Odds are good that it's a broadleaf. I think I can make out some tiny heart-shaped leaves.

I prefer Certainty for nutgrass. I can use it in ornamental beds and turf and it covers all the sedges.

If the other one is a broadleaf I'm going with the 2,4-D trimec, triple combo stuff. It's cheap and reliable. 

Edit: the final confirmation is pulling a sample of the nutgrass. The namesake nut is at the base of each clump. Expect to spray it several times. Do not pull it. I have to on occasion, but it's going to come back sometimes worse than before. because when you pull the single stalk it sends a hormone signal to the latent nutlets that it is time for them to get going. The nutgrass herbicides are notoriously slow. Be patient 

Edited by cactusflinthead
mo stuff

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I feel like I ought to clarify some things about the nutgrass. I said to expect to spray it multiple times because there is a latent network of nuts that aren't emergent. I can just about guarantee that you will nuke that spot and in a couple of months it will be back. Likely it will be smaller, with fewer individual clumps, but danged if it isn't there again. That's not an indication that your chemicals didn't work or your technique was bad, it's simply a prolonged battle to eradicate it. 

@El Tri

Edited by cactusflinthead

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I feel like I ought to clarify some things about the nutgrass. I said to expect to spray it multiple times because there is a latent network of nuts that aren't emergent. I can just about guarantee that you will nuke that spot and in a couple of months it will be back. Likely it will be smaller, with fewer individual clumps, but danged if it isn't there again. That's not an indication that your chemicals didn't work or your technique was bad, it's simply a prolonged battle to eradicate it. 
[mention=1660]El Tri[/mention]


Awesome, thanks for the advice. Can I buy these products from you? If I recall you own a shop in round rock?


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Site One for a bottle of Certainty. It ain't gonna be cheap. You can get single dose packages of Sedgehammer, another option on the market, at various places. I'd let my fingers do the walking. Do Your Own Pest Control is online and might be competitive for both products. 

The 2,4-D, mecoprop, dicamba triple combo stuff is about as common as white bread. Some names I can pull from memory; Weed-B-Gon, Triple-Action, Strike3, Trimec.   Others with an extra kicker of some sort; Escalade2, Weed-B-Gon Plus, and Speedzone Southern. Each of those have the same triple combo plus something else, quinclorac(good for crabgrass), fluoroxypyr(improved control of harder broadleaf targets), and carfentrazone(increased speed of effect and a few more targets expanded).

The improved versions do help with some things, but they are going to be a higher price point. Everyone is trying to find some new wrinkle to get some market share. READ THE FUCKING LABEL. Some of them are best with a surfactant. Some are better without, primarily the Speedzone. In any case, measure well, use your gloves, get a decent sprayer, and watch where you are spraying. Don't let anyone, including dogs and cats or other livestock,  in the area until it is completely dry. Give yourself a 12hr window before rain or irrigation, unless the label says it is rainfast before then.

Fire off more questions if you got'em.

Get ready ladies and gentlemen, spring is right around the corner. In warmer climes it's not too soon to get going. 

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23 minutes ago, Ten Bears said:

Is the 2,4-d type stuff safe for St. Augustine as long as the temperature is fairly 

I have sprayed it on StA many times. It's better to spot spray when it gets above 85 and might yellow it some, but if it's a new property that we picked up and it's a mess they don't care if it yellows some. I haven't lost any StA due to 2,4-D application. 

https://www.ortho.com/en-us/products/weeds/ortho-weed-b-gon-weed-killer-staugustinegrass-ready-spray

That's the hose end type. It's the same stuff. There is a range of how much to put in a gallon. StA calls for the lower end. 'Floratam' is the only cultivar that is not suitable for it. 

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If you aren't sure if you have 'Floratam', and it's a good bet some of y'all in Houston and other southern swamp ass areas do have some, this is your safe option. 

@BearSchlong has recommended it in the past iirc. I concur. It's the shit. It's my favorite for Virginia buttonweed, but you can't use it on fescue, rye, or other cool season type grass. 

Bayer Celsius WG 10 oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PLNB19K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_3nBmEbQC8W7NE

You don't use very much in a gallon. Which is good, because that 10oz bottle is $125-150.

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If you're wondering why they continue to sell and market 'Floratam' it's because of resistance to St. Augustine Decline,  which is viral so it either has resistance or it dies. Same as us, you have genetically embedded resistance to fight a virus or not. There are no treatments available for it. So far as I know.

 

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/publications/Staugdecline.html

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Awesome, thanks for the advice. Can I buy these products from you? If I recall you own a shop in round rock?


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Also, this.

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I'm already putting out pre-emergent. Split applications are great. Smaller doses spread out through the season. I don't always get that luxury. Contractual restrictions mean less flexibility in when and how often I can work on the site. A high end maintenance program may have several visits a year. I'm going to be doing well on some properties to get two. If I am very short-handed I have to start early and finish past the normal cut off. Y'all can put out a lower rate of pre now and again 45-60 days afterwards. That should get you to the end of summer and the next app. Then another in November. That's a pretty good coverage for the year. 

Fertilizer is different. I only want to put out stuff like lime or sulfur to mess with the pH now. I might consider putting in some liquid when I go spray weeds to make them use the 2,4-D faster (it mimics a growth hormone) but I don't want to hit the turf until I see about 30% green up. You can hit it every single month of the growing season with granular, every couple of weeks with liquids. Smaller, more frequent doses are better. 

Remember this formula. 

Want over got. I want 1# of N or less per thousand sq ft with a granular.  .25/M for liquid. 

Know the size of thy turf.

I got 2537 ft. aggy says it needs a pound of nitrogen per M a month. I got some 28-3-10. Whole bunch of low percentage stuff with names like Manganese and Molybdenum. Iron. I recognize that one.

Ok want over got 1/.28 

3 and a half pounds for the whole thing. Hell, that 50 pound bag will last a couple of years. 20 would have been plenty. 

I better crank that gate down on the spreader if I am going to make it last. 

Boom done. 

The same scenario applies for granular versions of pre-emergent. A known weight over a given area. You don't have to get it down to the gram, but if you know it's less than 5 lbs don't put out half a bag. An acre is 43, 560 ft would only require 150lbs of 28%N fertilizer for the same yield. 

That's if it requires it at all. If you are in a brand new housing area that a couple of years ago was a pasture, woods, vacant lot you're pretty safe on flinging out whatever. But, if you are in an older established neighborhood you might have years of phosphorus built up. Maybe the pH is a problem. Too far in either direction from 7 is not good. 25 bucks sent to aggy soil lab might be a better investment than a bag of fertilizer. I was able to cut the fertilizer costs in half by spending a couple hundred dollars in soil tests and shipping.

 10k >5k

Where you can get what is variable. You can get a lot of stuff from an old school Ace Hardware. Or an independent mom and pop nursery. Or you can mail order it. Celsius, Certainty, Sedgehammer,  and others are WDG (wettable dry granule) or sometimes simply WG. Why the extra D for dry.

Because aggy

A case of 1.25oz bottles of Certainty is the size of a box of Little Debbie Oatmeal Cake. A case of Celsius is a little bigger than a six pack but not as big as a 12. They can be shipped anywhere. 

They can be purchased at Site One. Google it. They are all over the country and in most major metro areas of Texas. 

Which pre-emergent is a matter of preference, cost, availability, and target species. They are all effective when used properly. Pendimethalin, dithiopyr, simazine, prodiamine, and others. Sometimes I combine them. Recently I have used both prodiamine and simazine in the same mix. I have seen it pre-mixed but I like being in control of my recipe. 

I can go buy 2,4-D in almost any town in America. It's the white bread of yard chems. 

Yes, I can jabber on about it. 

Edited by cactusflinthead

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Damn, all this makes me realize how much I don't have time for. Has anyone hired a lawn service that cares for your lawn (not just cuts) they really like?

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I think it was Anastasis that rec,d Emerald Lawns in the Austin area. 

It's really not that complicated. A once a month whirl around is usually enough. Not a lot other than fert and watching for bugs and diseases in the summer. 

A lot of guys are specializing in chemical applications only, whether 'organic' or traditional. It might be a good idea to split the bill. Chuck or Chuy and a truck to mow, edge, and blow. Another guy or girl to do chems. If they don't have a license I'm not interested. 

TNLA , Texas Nursery and Landscape Association has a list of members. I'd call around and have them send you a calendar of apps, rates, and products. If they aren't willing to tell you what they are using, they are breaking the law. You have to be able to provide a label when asked. I have a sack of them that I keep in the work truck at all times, in addition to the SDS. The license stays in the clipboard. If Joe or Jane Blow wants to see any or all, here ya go. Rate? Here's that. Want a look at the record for this year on this turf? Here they are. 

Anything else? Glad to help ma'am. (Now stay the hell out of the way.)  

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I put down pre emergent trying to curb the crab grass in my yard. My backyard is currently covered in something that looks like strawberries. I also have a ton of dandelions and a bit of clover. Front yard had spurge last year. I sprayed half of it with Fertilome weed free lawn and it was harsh on my st Augustine. But it did the job.

What can I do? Do I need to wait till grass greens up to spray anything? I really want to curb the spurge and crab grass this year.

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I tried to be more diligent over the last two years but I'm still struggling with nut grass coming up, clover and other crap in certain areas and the Bermuda taking over the Zoysia so looking for some professional help. I know it's me because when I bought the house the yard was immaculate. 

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38 minutes ago, kmac30 said:

I put down pre emergent trying to curb the crab grass in my yard. My backyard is currently covered in something that looks like strawberries. I also have a ton of dandelions and a bit of clover. Front yard had spurge last year. I sprayed half of it with Fertilome weed free lawn and it was harsh on my st Augustine. But it did the job.

What can I do? Do I need to wait till grass greens up to spray anything? I really want to curb the spurge and crab grass this year.

Spurge and crab are both reliant on temperature to germinate. Split applications help extend the control. Make sure spurge is on the label as a target species. 

Yes, there is a groundcover version of strawberries. It's a perennial so it will likely take several whacks. Same with nutgrass. It's not a one shot kill.

 

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40 minutes ago, ZB'Tejas said:

I tried to be more diligent over the last two years but I'm still struggling with nut grass coming up, clover and other crap in certain areas and the Bermuda taking over the Zoysia so looking for some professional help. I know it's me because when I bought the house the yard was immaculate. 

Ok it's upper level, but you can rogue out the Bermuda with ornamec/fusillade/fluazifop. It will yellow the zoysia some but utterly kick the ass of bermudagrass. It's my go to for clearing out grasses from groundcovers and shrubs. Zoysia is tolerant of it.

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Here's the link to the soil temperature tool.

You don't have to go out there with a thermometer. 

http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/soil-temperature

 

Crabgrass germination usually begins when the soil temperature at a 2-inch depth reaches 55°F for at least 3 days. Since crabgrass is the first summer annual grassy weed to germinate we apply pre-emergence herbicides based on its germination.Feb 19, 2016
Edited by cactusflinthead

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it’s been mild af this winter and neither my front or backyard has gone fully dormant. am i good to start the annual scalping? i’m in austin.

also need to get control of clover. what can i use? i need names of shit i can get at home depot or lowe’s 

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20 hours ago, joe dirt said:

it’s been mild af this winter and neither my front or backyard has gone fully dormant. am i good to start the annual scalping? i’m in austin.

also need to get control of clover. what can i use? i need names of shit i can get at home depot or lowe’s 

Ive got the shit all over my yard and I did all my pre-em treatments.  It has just been a mild year with just enough rain.   The orange cap standard version of Weed-b-Gon will kill yellow nutsedge (or manage it) as well as clover, chickweeds, henbit, etc.  I usually do a spray and then come back and respray affected areas about 10 days later.  It works though.  There is a  purple capped version of Ortho Weed-b-Gon that also kills oxalis if you have any of that.

 

You can scalp your yard whenever, but your bermuda will still likely be partially or fully dormant until mid march.  I usually scalp once the soil temp ends up being right for bermuda to turn back on.

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We have St Augustine and I have been sitting on a bucket and hand pulling the dallis grass or whatever it is but thus far it is winning. The granular seems to have kept the henbit away because some of my neighbors have it but I haven't a single plant, whew.

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2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

We have St Augustine and I have been sitting on a bucket and hand pulling the dallis grass or whatever it is but thus far it is winning. The granular seems to have kept the henbit away because some of my neighbors have it but I haven't a single plant, whew.

Dallis is almost impossible to control. I believe it spreads with rhyzomes under the soil.  There is a chem you can buy but I dont think it's legal for residential use.  

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2 minutes ago, krevo said:

Dallis is almost impossible to control. I believe it spreads with rhyzomes under the soil.  There is a chem you can buy but I dont think it's legal for residential use.  

MSMA. It is still available but even for those of us that can get it, there are restrictions on where it can be used; cotton fields, golf courses, and right of ways. The typical approach now is a low rate (.5% solution, .62oz/gal) of round up. Yeah it's going to leave a burn hole, bermudagrass will recover fairly quickly. In fact that's called the 'Bermuda release rate'. St A was not tolerant of MSMA anyhow.  There are two new products available, Manuscript and Tribute Total. Both of them are wildly expensive. Round up is cheap and effective. But you nailed it on the rhizomes. If there are latent bits that haven't emerged yet, a single application of anything is not going to get them. Most chemicals have to be applied to the foliage and in the case of dallisgrass you are likely to have stuff that will keep coming on for a while. In the best case you are going to get about 70% control the first time and then whittle down the rest over time. You can apply round up with a wick. Tie an old sock to the end of the spray wand and walla, you have redneck engineered a wick system. That's going to cut down on the overspray if you are down to a few persistent rhizomes among an otherwise clean turf.

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1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

MSMA. It is still available but even for those of us that can get it, there are restrictions on where it can be used; cotton fields, golf courses, and right of ways. The typical approach now is a low rate (.5% solution, .62oz/gal) of round up. Yeah it's going to leave a burn hole, bermudagrass will recover fairly quickly. In fact that's called the 'Bermuda release rate'. St A was not tolerant of MSMA anyhow.  There are two new products available, Manuscript and Tribute Total. Both of them are wildly expensive. Round up is cheap and effective. But you nailed it on the rhizomes. If there are latent bits that haven't emerged yet, a single application of anything is not going to get them. Most chemicals have to be applied to the foliage and in the case of dallisgrass you are likely to have stuff that will keep coming on for a while. In the best case you are going to get about 70% control the first time and then whittle down the rest over time. You can apply round up with a wick. Tie an old sock to the end of the spray wand and walla, you have redneck engineered a wick system. That's going to cut down on the overspray if you are down to a few persistent rhizomes among an otherwise clean turf.

I dont like to share the name.  Like people to do their own research lol.   Another option is to cut a 1 liter bottle (or two/three liter for crab) in half and place it over the weed.  Then put the sprayer inside and hit it a few times.  It'll localize the spray to perfect circle around the clump.

Edited by krevo

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Last weekend I said "screw it" and put down MicroLife Humates Plus and 6-4-2 on the lawn.  C'moooon spring.  

Too soon? (yes)

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1 hour ago, texasdago said:

Last weekend I said "screw it" and put down MicroLife Humates Plus and 6-4-2 on the lawn.  C'moooon spring.  

Too soon? (yes)

It snowed in parts of Denton. The only thing green in the yard is stuff I ought to kill. The iris will get some, but that's about it. 

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1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

It snowed in parts of Denton. The only thing green in the yard is stuff I ought to kill. The iris will get some, but that's about it. 

Shoot... I'm in Houston.  I harvested a nice red tomato this morning, if that will tell you anything.

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Yeah, you should be fine. The thing about feeding a lawn too early is that it forces it to burn up stored carbos faster. I had a prof describe it as a start-up company. They haven't really kicked in production to the point where they are generating their own capital (carbos) so they are burning through the savings quickly. Feeding it N makes that go faster. Once the chloroplasts and by extension the chorophyll gets going they are in full production mode and can use it efficiently. It's not the greatest analogy, but it kinda gets the point across. Maybe. 

 

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@cactusflinthead the co that treats my lawn is wanting to top-dress w/ compost &  aerate next week. Located in Austin, have tiff bermuda (still 98% dormant). Seems really early - should I wait or do you think now is good? 

Edited by texhorn

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1 hour ago, texhorn said:

@cactusflinthead the co that treats my lawn is wanting to top-dress w/ compost &  aerate next week. Located in Austin, have tiff bermuda (still 98% dormant). Seems really early - should I wait or do you think now is good? 

I'd pass on it until it's actively growing. 

Edited by cactusflinthead

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At least what I put on is slow release so it shouldn't cause a quick green up.  The rain this week will water it in nicely.

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How do I get rid of this stuff? Preferably with something from Lowes.cec912598db96bd1bbc9155cab574fb5.jpg

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How do I get rid of this stuff? Preferably with something from Lowes.cec912598db96bd1bbc9155cab574fb5.jpg

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Eat it. It looks like pre-flower dandelion.

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Is weed and feed bad? Is it too late? Too early? I’ve been in this house 8 months. Put down pre but I’m still going to have weeds. Trying to start regular management.

*in Conroe with St Augustine

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It depends on what the 'weed' part is in the weed and feed. I don't like 2,4-D mixed with fertilizer, but simazine or prodiamine or dithiopyr pre in with the fertilizer is fine. The reason being is that the 2,4-D post needs to get absorbed by the leaves to be effective. Getting it to stick on there can be really hit or miss. It needs a little water on the leaves, but not too much. It needs between 12-48 hrs to get absorbed by the weeds. That's enough time to lose some fertilizer if it's getting above 80. Fertilizer, particularly N, is like mothballs, it will sublimate from a solid to a gas. So 48 hrs of it sitting there baking in the sun is not optimal. 

None of that happens with a pre/fert mix. You're going to water it in as soon as you get it spread. 

Get a good pump sprayer and a quart bottle of 2,4-D triple combo (Weed-B-Gon, Trimec, etc.) and some surfactant.  It will be much more effective. USE GLOVES. 

@HouTex this applies to you too. Everything in that picture can be taken out with Trimec or equivalent. 

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On 2/25/2020 at 3:04 PM, txhorns said:

How do I get rid of this stuff? Preferably with something from Lowes.cec912598db96bd1bbc9155cab574fb5.jpg

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I second this. I have some in my flowerbeds and Roundup ain't working

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Can I use weed b gone hose end sprayer? And I should do this now and fertilize later?

Here’s what I’m dealing with...
dfa5ef5b66fdc901475034148dc047af.jpg5e42336d6549b3a1854d75374f0b3cd9.jpgc6f5f07055a970ca3c7acf0d2b2bdff1.jpg922f3441a6fbd733bb34199d7dd6a74c.jpgdb958760857d3588aa388fea672d7d45.jpgeaa7510a75f1e30e46865c4b77b3401b.jpgb80055fc43363eb876cb5731f77d9bea.jpg

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Hose end is ok, but it's harder to control the output. You also are going to spend more money on it in the long term than getting a good tank sprayer and a bottle of concentrate. That quart bottle will run maybe 15 bucks at most. You can get many tanks out of it. You're going to go through multiple hose end doses to get the same results. 

That quart bottle is much more cost effective. It also gives me greater flexibility on the rate, better control of where I apply it, droplet size, and I can mix only what I need rather than having some leftover or running out too soon.

Hose end is ok, but there are better options. 

 

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X-posting on gardening thread...

I have what I guess you could call an ornamental garden in the backyard.  It has knockout rose, mountain laurel, purple lantana, lily of the nile, plumbago, mexican bush sage, Esperanza, texas sage, red bud, weeping red bud, red yucca, pink skull cap, purple heart, indian hawthorne, artichoke agave, turks cap, loropetalum, soft leaf yucca, variegated ginger, abulia, liziope, oak leaf hydrangea, beauty berry, and black & blue salvia, and flax lily.  80% of these were installed in Nov 2019, and the remaining 20% is going to go in over the next 60 days.

Unfortunately I also have the dreaded NUTSEDGE coming up in the mulch.  Nutsedge laughs at Roundup and Glyphosphate.  Manual pulling makes it worse.

In the past I've used an Image/44% Glophosphate mix to kill it but I literally had to paint it onto the shoots.  That's no longer feasible here.

I have some SedgeHammer (halosalfuron) and a container of Dismiss (sulfentrazone) and I'd like to do a spot spray in the areas that have trouble, but I'm finding conflicting info on if that is OK in my landscape garden.  The Sulfentrazone label says not to use it in ornamental areas, but there are lots of threads online where it's fine.  SedgeHammer says its OK but apparently doesn't work as well as the Dismiss.  Apparently the Dismiss persists in soil for a year, whereas the SedgeHammer is much shorter.  I'm wondering if when they install the new stuff in the next month or two if that's going to interfere with the transplant process if I spray now.

Anyone have any thoughts/ideas?

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