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Posted (edited)

Obviously she’s *been* working with cowriters and producers and etc etc for a billion years but the “just marketing” thing would stick more if she was just a voice, imo. I think she’s a capable singer (to the same extent that she’s an absolute beauty) but for this much of a stretch and this many hit songs and this long as the apex pop predator you have to give her herself her proper credit. I remember You Belong With Me hitting right as I was graduating and here I am about to turn 40.

 

also just cause this pic is board and thread appropriate and I’m already leaking dad thread/im a man stuff in here-

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Edited by Celery Man
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Posted
On 6/26/2025 at 12:49 PM, Paul Wesley said:

I think you should start with a vast arsenal of high-end instruments and gear.  Everything else flows from there.  

you know, sometimes paul...sometimes...you make me feel like a narcissist because i read your posts and i can't help but think you are talking about me.

 

18 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I’ll fight anyone I don’t give a fuck. I legitimately like Taylor Swift and have mad respect for both her talent and her work ethic, and I think she gets way too much shit for dating like 7 guys in her twenties. My daughter loves Tay Tay and I think she’s a great role model.

 

her cousins got her this shirt and I’ve tried really hard to explain how badass of a gift it is -

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her loog is in her closet and I heard strumming and singing - “Disney WOOOOOrrRrrRrLD! Disney Woooorld, oh Disney…..

WORLD”

I talk to her about how her songs are great and that she can write songs and sing them on stage like Daddy or Taylor Swift if she keeps it up.

she's obviously great as a collaborator, can write a hit like very few people have ever done, has some really good songs, and is a force of nature in terms of being prolific and the magnitude of her tours. deej is obviously way off base saying her isolated vocals are bad as he's just being a hater. that's insane. i have stem split about 40 of her songs for my girls to study...her vocals are incredibly good at connoting different emotions of songs. she's not adele, whitney houston, or maria callas but she's a plenty good singer to go along with songwriting ability.

that said, i sent my wife and older daughter to one of the shows in houston and my wife and younger daughter to one of the shows in new orleans and in retrospect, i probably would have rather used that same amount of money to buy out the entire town of tremezzo and build a house on lake como. lifetime memories for them though. and they both have that shirt.

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Posted

Look, if I have to listen to many many people claim she's one of the great singers, I'm allowed to say she's shit, and I'm probably closer to the truth than those who claim she has an iconic singing voice. That's just bullshit. 

Posted
2 hours ago, sidis said:

probably would have rather used that same amount of money to buy out the entire town of tremezzo and build a house on lake como

 

Dude if you beat me to the punch on that I will never forgive you. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Deej said:

Look, if I have to listen to many many people claim she's one of the great singers, I'm allowed to say she's shit, and I'm probably closer to the truth than those who claim she has an iconic singing voice. 

Did somebody say that, at least on this thread?

Posted
7 hours ago, Deej said:

She's a no-talent ass clown.

Office Space Case Of The Mondays GIF

This is an incredibly bad take. 

She writes he own music, plays her own guitar, sings. Said fuck you to Nashville, then the same to industry.

The rights to her 1st 6 albums were bought out from under, so she went scorched earth and re-recorded them from the ground up. The streaming services dropped all the originals and started streaming the Taylor's versions. Oh, and now she owns the original versions too.

That's punk as fuck and she's a certified bad ass. If you are hating on that, I dont know what to tell you. You're in the extreme minority. She just complete the most successful music tour in history. Im sure she's losing sleep over your take. 

I love ya, @Deej, but you are just wrong here. 

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Posted

She has talent.  It’s just not in the solar system as other talented performers. 
 

I watched this live and recalled some of the glances Stevie gave Taylor (Stevie comes out around the 1:45 mark).  Taylor is not on pitch a number of times in just a couple of minutes of this song.  And it’s not a difficult song to sing. 
 

 

Posted
7 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Obviously she’s *been* working with cowriters and producers and etc etc for a billion years but the “just marketing” thing would stick more if she was just a voice, imo. I think she’s a capable singer (to the same extent that she’s an absolute beauty) but for this much of a stretch and this many hit songs and this long as the apex pop predator you have to give her herself her proper credit. I remember You Belong With Me hitting right as I was graduating and here I am about to turn 40.

 

also just cause this pic is board and thread appropriate and I’m already leaking dad thread/im a man stuff in here-

IMG_4657.thumb.jpeg.928da84a06c689bbbc98253073c5fb17.jpeg

This pic is totally badass.

So badass that I almost didn’t notice the superfluous pickguard screws.

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Vanilla Strange Gato said:

She has talent.  It’s just not in the solar system as other talented performers. 
 

I watched this live and recalled some of the glances Stevie gave Taylor (Stevie comes out around the 1:45 mark).  Taylor is not on pitch a number of times in just a couple of minutes of this song.  And it’s not a difficult song to sing. 
 

"Talent" isn't one thing.  The lack of auto-tuning is refreshing, and nobody accused Taylor of being a great singer in the first place.  Stevie hits some green notes too.  

That next song kicks ass, missed notes nothwithstanding.  It's a fucking HOOK.  Why don't you write that hook?  That takes talent.
 

Also:  15 years ago.  21 years old.  I couldn't hit a note from a boat in the ocean when I was 21.  (Still can't.)

Edited by jimmyjazz
Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

"Talent" isn't one thing.  The lack of auto-tuning is refreshing, and nobody accused Taylor of being a great singer in the first place.  Stevie hits some green notes too.  

That next song kicks ass, missed notes nothwithstanding.  It's a fucking HOOK.  Why don't you write that hook?  That takes talent.
 

Also:  15 years ago.  21 years old.  I couldn't hit a note from a boat in the ocean when I was 21.  (Still can't.)

Stevie might have been trying to match Taylor so there would be some semblance of harmony, or was thrown off by Taylor not staying on pitch. 
 

The age of the performer is irrelevant at that point.  By 21, you either have it or you don’t.  You can either sing the notes correctly every time or not.  There are numerous examples of younger entertainers who just killed it before 21. 
 

Writing the hook is a talent.  I don’t know if she does all of that herself but if so then good for her being able to come up with those ideas.  That’s the toughest part. 
 

I do have an acquaintance that went to school for sound engineering and producing in Nashville.  He worked some with Taylor back in this era.  He was not complimentary of her musical abilities at the time. 
 

The Eras Tour is the most impressive tour of all time.  And her starting from scratch and recording her earlier albums again and owning the rights was a baller move. 
 

Her success is undeniable.  I just don’t think it’s as organic as most people think. 

Posted
5 hours ago, Vanilla Strange Gato said:

 I just don’t think it’s as organic as most people think

 

I'm not sure you are using organic in the correct manner here.

 

I'd also not use Stevie Nicks of all people as an example of singing on key, and I say this as a Stevie Nicks fan.

 

Posted

Echoing Jimmy - I don’t think she’s an incredible singer but she is a songwriter and a performer and at this point I don’t think there’s any evidence besides “ attractive woman” to support the idea that she might not be the engine and main creative force behind the Taylor Swift empire.

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Posted
9 hours ago, Vanilla Strange Gato said:

The age of the performer is irrelevant at that point.  By 21, you either have it or you don’t.  You can either sing the notes correctly every time or not.  

 

That's not a universal truth, at all.  You do realize that voice training is a thing, right?  My sis is a classical voice coach, she has worked with the biggest stars in the opera world.  She makes her hay by teaching young singers how to improve their pitch, timbre, enunciation, etc.  By "young" I mean "just graduated from Juilliard, etc." up throughout much of their pro career.

Hell, Madonna became a much better singer once she got formal voice training in her mid-30s to perform "Evita".

I have no idea what Taylor Swift has done in that regard.

 

Quote

There are numerous examples of younger entertainers who just killed it before 21. 

Sure, but that doesn't mean everyone can do it w/o training.

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I don’t think there’s any evidence besides “ attractive woman” to support the idea that she might not be the engine and main creative force behind the Taylor Swift empire.

This is the main thing I think people gloss over, subconsciously or not. 

 

The other thing is the notion that any mega artist made it just because of musical talent.

Posted

Trying to get guitar porn thread back on track by:

1) I don’t think anyone believes that TS has an iconic or even “great” voice. That said, she is extremely effective at using it to do white girl tricks in conveying different tones in her songs. Her first two albums have a very nashvilly sound vocally, 1989 is the definition of teeny bopper, while reputation is quite strong in conveying bitterness and anger, and then a very mellow and pretty sound for folklore/evermore. Creating those different album feels is not as easy as she makes it look, despite the fact that she’s not a technical or pitch perfect iconic voice. But at the end of the day, the chick can write some fucking hits and is a very good instinctual musician. She’s also quite smart in her collaborative choices. While being an attractive white girl may have given her a “leg” up in the beginning, her talent and songwriting is plenty organic is is ultimately undeniable. The stadiums of 90,000 people singing along every word for THREE AND A HALF fuckkng hours in every city around the world out front should have told you and I’d sell all of your guitar collections combined in a heartbeat to have 25% of that ability. She’s been wildly oversaturated for the last five years so I get the pushback and it’s time for something different but she’s an all time songwriter and a very talented musician and it’s silly to say otherwise. 

2) thanks to consulting you guys, I didn’t do something idiotic and drill a hole in the Martin. Got a really nice strap from them to connect to the neck and it’s working out great so thanks to all for stopping me from doing stupid things. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I forget, is that a D18 like Taylor Swift’s?

Indeed. It is glorious. Very mellow, much like Taylor Swift’s voice on the song “tolerate it.”

Edited by sidis
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